KMW preview: Tatiana Stepanova, Alastor

Tatiana Stepanova, Alastor Ravnos, g4 Cap: 7 PRE CHI obf for ani Camarilla: You and Tatiana may play cards that require Brujah[Brujah symbol] or Gangrel [Gangrel symbol] as if Tatiana were a member of the required clan

What? No comment? I think its funny. Can she fetch Brujah allies with The Summoning? (I'm thinking yes...). So, like... what do you DO with her? But I like, cause she's Cam (prince votes... though it'd've been sweet could she play with Francois.)

"Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> wrote in message news:3555uoF...@individual.net... [ quoted text not captured ] This is not the Tatiana we were looking for! :-) Triole's Revenge, Arms Dealer, Loyal Street Gang, The Knights, The Slashers, Sword of Troile, Al's Army Apparatus, Artistically Inept, Brujah Debate, Carthage Remembered, Oxford University, England, Warzone Hunting Ground. Plus, Gather, Ritual Challenge, Gypsies, Renegade Garou, Werewolf Pack, Shackles of Enkidu, Backways, Eco Terrorists, Gangrel Revel, Zoo Hunting Ground, Dog Pack. Hmm, is the ability to play all those (plus the Ravnos ones) worth much? Maaaaybe... I think Sword of Troile, Gather, and Renegade Garou are probably the most worthwhile ones for her, and none of those have all that much support from her disciplines, it seems. Dog Pack and Backways and Eco Terrorists could be kind of amusing, but she still doesn't seem that combatty a vampire to really want a Dog Pack (though in conjunction with Sword of Troile it'd be amusing I guess), and for the others you'd have to be playing her in a fairly Gangrel-heavy deck for them to be really useful. Sadly, you still can't choose her as Brujah Justicar or Gangrel Justicar, unless you Clan Impersonate her first. :-) Josh not a romanov either

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:07:30 -0500, Joshua Duffin <jtdu...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > "Smiling Tom" <tma...@almadrava.net> wrote in message > news:3555uoF...@individual.net... >> Tatiana Stepanova, Alastor >> Ravnos, g4 >> Cap: 7 >> PRE CHI obf for ani >> Camarilla: You and Tatiana may play cards that require Brujah[Brujah > symbol] >> or Gangrel [Gangrel symbol] as if Tatiana were a member of the > required clan > > This is not the Tatiana we were looking for! :-) > > > Hmm, is the ability to play all those (plus the Ravnos ones) worth much? > > Sadly, you still can't choose her as Brujah Justicar or Gangrel > Justicar, unless you Clan Impersonate her first. :-) > > When I first saw her, I thought, Feral Spirit, but sadly no. She'd be a perfect Ahrimane. Howler's little draba buddy. Colin

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Dog Pack and Backways > and Eco Terrorists could be kind of amusing, but she still doesn't seem > that combatty a vampire to really want a Dog Pack (though in conjunction > with Sword of Troile it'd be amusing I guess), and for the others you'd > have to be playing her in a fairly Gangrel-heavy deck for them to be > really useful. I think Trapparition+Crows as the core combat with Dog Pack shoring up their historic SCE weakness would be viable. And once she gets the Dog Pack it can be Heidleburg'd over to other Ravnos, meaning it's not a one-vampire trick. Throw in the Sword and it's nuts. Slap down a Mass Reality and it's double-nuts. -- David Cherryholmes

[ quoted text not captured ] Plus she can use Al's or the Arms Dealer to get the Sword faster. Heck, just adding Al's or an Arms Dealer to a Mass Reality deck would be nice; never want for a weapon! Plus she has obf and can Disguise out the Sword. But sadly, the ONLY reason to use the Sword of Troile with Tatiana instead of Bang Nakh would be if you plan to play Potence, and that might tempt you into trying to do too much at once. (Or, I suppose, if you plan to Heidleburg it to someone and play Presence and Potence. Still not that killer.) > David Cherryholmes -John Flournoy

"David Cherryholmes" <david.che...@duke.edu> wrote in message news:3559d8F...@individual.net... [ quoted text not captured ] But with inferior Animalism to start, it doesn't look that much like the bee's knees... John's right that the Sword doesn't get you much further than Bang Nakh with Ms. Stepanova, too. Eh, I guess you can play Iron Glare if she has it. And at least it's funny. Still, I am somewhat disappointed by inferior Animalism, inferior Fortitude here. I guess I shouldn't complain, just [PRE CHI obf for] probably gets you enough niftiness. Josh is very demanding of his 7-caps

"Colin Riggs" <colin...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de news: opskteihewrt49mu@navarroxp... [ quoted text not captured ] Why not ?? -------------- Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Because, oddly, Feral Spirit's text targets a Gangrel or !Gangrel you control, but doesn't actually have a printed requirement of those clans. Though since you can't legally play one without controlling a (!)Gangrel, I'd think it _ought_ to qualify as requiring those clans. Can we get an official ruling on this, LSJ? What's the difference between a Master with a requirement that you control a clan vamp to play vs. control a clan vamp to legally target? -John Flournoy

> But sadly, the ONLY reason to use the Sword of Troile with Tatiana > instead of Bang Nakh would be if you plan to play Potence, and that > might tempt you into trying to do too much at once. (Or, I suppose, if > you plan to Heidleburg it to someone and play Presence and Potence. > Still not that killer.) > Because nobody would want to use POT CHI...

On Tue, 18 Jan 2005, John Flournoy wrote: > Orpheus wrote: >> "Colin Riggs" <colin...@yahoo.com> a écrit dans le message de > news: >> opskteihewrt49mu@navarroxp... >>> On Tue, 18 Jan 2005 15:07:30 -0500, Joshua Duffin > <jtdu...@yahoo.com> >>> wrote: >>> When I first saw her, I thought, Feral Spirit, but sadly no. She'd > be a >>> perfect Ahrimane. Howler's little draba buddy. >> >> Why not ?? >> -------------- >> Orpheus > > Because, oddly, Feral Spirit's text targets a Gangrel or !Gangrel you > control, but doesn't actually have a printed requirement of those > clans. Also, Tatiana is group 4 and Howler is group 2. Maybe you could do it in a Final Nights/Bloodlines/KMW draft. Of course you still can't play Feral Spirit on Tatiana. Matt Morgan

[ quoted text not captured ] Don't get me wrong, POT CHI is great. But David's original concept didn't use POT at all, being a CHI/ANI combat strategy, so trying to use the POT on top of it runs the risk of having too many things in a single deck. POT/CHI is fine, but if all you want is POT/CHI, why not give Tatiana (or any CHI vamp) a Hand of Conrad instead? Tatiana with the Sword has six different disciplines. If you're _not_ going to use POT, the Sword's a waste, and if you ARE going to use POT/CHI, either you're talking a tough-to-balance six discipline deck or else you'd be better off not using Tatiana for it in the first place. -John Flournoy

> Also, Tatiana is group 4 and Howler is group 2. Maybe you could do it in > a Final Nights/Bloodlines/KMW draft. Of course you still can't play Feral > Spirit on Tatiana. > I'm not so sure. Feral Spirits must be played on a (!?)Gangrel. That sounds like a requirement to me. What's even cooler is, if you can play one on her, you can play another one without a Clan Impersonation.

[ quoted text not captured ] The difference is that normally when you have a Master card with the clan requirement symbol, you must have a *ready* member of that clan in order to play it. The text of Feral Spirit however is: "Put this card on any Gangrel or Gangrel antitribu you control." The key difference (at least that I can see) is that you can put Feral Spirit on a *non-ready* Gangrel/!Gangrel (such as one in torpor). You can't have your cake and eat it too. Feral Spirit has the advantage of being playable on torpored critters, but the flipside is that since it doesn't technically require Gangrel (in the traditional sense since you don't need a ready one), Tatiana cannot play it. * Pedantry Addendum: Note that Carnivale also exists in an abnormal state. It does not technically require Toreador ("Put this card on a ready Toreador"). And while it does require the recipient to be ready (unlike Feral Spirit) the difference here is that you don't actually need to control the Toreador (give it to someone else's vampire). According to the rulebook, "Some cards will have other requirements (such as capacity or title) stated in the card text. Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play it, while only a Methuselah who controls a ready minion who meets the requirements of a master card can play it." So both card text and the symbol on the bar can qualify as a requirement. But since the specifications for a Master card refer to "a Methusaleh who controls a ready minion who meets the requirements", that would preclude Feral Spirit (not necessarily "ready") and Carnivale (not necessarily "controls") from meeting that definition. So based on this analysis I would argue that neither Feral Spirit or Carnivale qualify as "requiring" their respective clans. (Please note the difference between "require" in the vernacular sense and "require" in the specific VTES terminology)

"Screaming Vermillian" <vermil...@yahoo.com> escribió en el mensaje news:1106078840.0...@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Hummmm ... Recruit 2x renegade in a turn? Summoning+renegade+freak drives. Recruiting garous using CHI+obf stealth&mirror image looks like a solid module. Other options? ritual challenge, dog pack & trapparittion. there is a group3 gangrel, diron, with inf. chi that can side her... or... Mass reality, al's army and lots of weapons, using obf for disguised weapons. This way, you can pack other ravnos to gain benefit from it. or a plain simple embrace&week of nightmares with 3 hunting grounds :-P

Screaming Vermillian wrote: > So, like... what do you DO with her? Well, she's tied with Mukhtar Bey for smallest vampire with PRE/for/obf. Considering that there's no PRE/obf/for vampires smaller than 9 in groups 1, 2, or 3, it looks like we're seeing a new crypt open up. Mix her with Mukhtar, Germaine, Jaroslav, Marcus and/or Lucinde and lay down some steath bleed & vote with freaky untaps. She's also the first "Gangrel" ever with PRE. Use the Summoning to get Renegade Garous. Put Horrid Reality into play and rush with Weighted Walking Sticks or Zip Guns. You could boost the ally angle with Joshua Tarnopolski, Marlena and cheap Brujah allies like the Arms Dealer. We'll have to see how she meshes with the new Ravnos, but she's looking pretty good. Incidentally, I think she'll be starter-only in the Alastors deck. Her power and disciplines make her perfect for a cross-clan deck. And she's an Alastor. Also, Maureen the Dark Priestess, the first preview vamp, is starter-only Baali.

[ quoted text not captured ] Not entirely true, ol' chap. Antonio's got pre and +1 stealth on undirected actions.

evil_inside1...@hotmail.com wrote: > Not entirely true, ol' chap. Antonio's got pre and +1 stealth on > undirected actions. You meant Superior Presence. My apologies. However, I can see her work with Antonio in some kind of funky vote deck. Maybe using anarchs, inferior fortitude is fine when playing Diversion and she can use both obf and chi options on Smoke & Mirrors. Not to mention Fee Stake: Seattle which grants an additional vote to Gangrel/Gangrel-Antitribu. Also: Hezekiah Rutledge Brujah, g4 Cap: 5 Camarilla ani cel pot PRE Also works with Diversion and has PRE to further add to funky vote deck. Granted, ani is at inferior but it's still there, tying in nicely with both Antonio and Tatiana Stepanova. Just some thoughts...

On 18 Jan 2005 22:16:00 -0800, evil_in...@hotmail.com scrawled: >evil_inside1...@hotmail.com wrote: > >> Not entirely true, ol' chap. Antonio's got pre and +1 stealth on >> undirected actions. > >You meant Superior Presence. My apologies. However, I can see her work >with Antonio in some kind of funky vote deck. Maybe using anarchs, >inferior fortitude is fine when playing Diversion and she can use both >obf and chi options on Smoke & Mirrors. Not to mention Fee Stake: >Seattle which grants an additional vote to Gangrel/Gangrel-Antitribu. It does, but she won't get the additional vote. Fee Stake: Seattle doesn't _require_ a Gangrel, and so she can't play it as if she was one. salem domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm (replace "hotmail" with "yahoo" to email)

Uzytkownik "Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <ethe...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net> napisal w wiadomosci news:2005011817...@sidehack.sat.gweep.net... [ quoted text not captured ] To me requerement is an icon on the left side of master, or bold text "reqire <sth>". If it was an action for gangrel, she could play it. sinaath

"I think Trapparition+Crows as the core combat with Dog Pack shoring up their historic SCE weakness would be viable. And once she gets the Dog Pack it can be Heidleburg'd over to other Ravnos, meaning it's not a one-vampire trick. Throw in the Sword and it's nuts. Slap down a Mass Reality and it's double-nuts." I was thinking similar silliness. Its funny though, with her you get get a whole slew of minions with PRE CHI POT (eye of hazimel, sword of triole, hand of conrad, and Heildel it to appropriate smaller vampires). Three vampires with the bruise and bleed module... um. Ok not so great, but SOMEONE'll probably make that deck...

> get a whole slew of minions with PRE CHI POT (eye of hazimel, sword of triole, hand of conrad, and Heildel it to appropriate smaller vampires) you cant heidel the eye as long as the bearer is ready... i dont actually think this deck is gonna be anything near to effecient...

To me requerement is an icon on the left side of master, or bold text "reqire <sth>". If it was an action for gangrel, she could play it. not correct, Feral Spirit do not have a requirement to play the card, you just put it ONLY on a Gangrel or !gangrel. So, you cannot put it on Tatiana, because she is not a Gangrel or !gangrel. It is very simple and very clear. George

dont actually think this deck is gonna be anything near to effecient... i agree, the most efficient use of the Eye is with Lambach advanced... George

"John Flournoy" <carn...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1106085150....@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com... > Though since you can't legally play one without controlling a > (!)Gangrel, I'd think it _ought_ to qualify as requiring those clans. > Can we get an official ruling on this, LSJ? What's the difference > between a Master with a requirement that you control a clan vamp to > play vs. control a clan vamp to legally target? Feral Spirit can be played even if you control no ready Gangrel or !Gangrel[0]. If it required Gangrel or !Gangrel, that would not be the case. [0] You can play it on your Gangrel in torpor, for example. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

We'll have to see how she meshes with the new Ravnos, but she's looking pretty good. very well imo. Using Ravnos, you have access to Combat ends-continue in order to easily recruit the Garou, to stealth, to some bleed modifiers, can use summoning (imo you can use summoning with Tatiana, as meeting the requirements is checked by checking if the minion could play the card, tatiana could play the card, so she meets the requirements to recruit Garous by superior summoning), you have DRABA!!! so you can block easily with garous, you have mass reality for your Garou's desert eagles (i currenlty have a garou deck that uses some wooden stakes, some desert eagles and some concealed weapons), so you've got a lot of good things (even bounce if they release some new ravnos with dom, or if you want to use Hazimel with his sup aus) to mix with your deadly garous... (even ravnos cache for concealed-desert eagles/magnums). i guess we are about to see some nice garou decks... George

[ quoted text not captured ] That's what I've said. Because there's no requirement (neither is there an icon, nor the text "require"), she cannot play Feral Spirit. It was an asnwer to previos post. sinaath [ quoted text not captured ]

> Though since you can't legally play one without controlling a > (!)Gangrel, I'd think it _ought_ to qualify as requiring those clans. > Can we get an official ruling on this, LSJ? What's the difference > between a Master with a requirement that you control a clan vamp to play > vs. control a clan vamp to legally target? I'd guess that it has to do with the fact that a requirement for clan X isn't sufficient to require that you place it on that requirement-satisfying vampire unless there's text to support that. Ankur Gupta Prince of West Lafayette

Screaming Vermillian wrote: > What? No comment? > > I think its funny. Can she fetch Brujah allies with The Summoning? (I'm > thinking yes...). Is she actually 'playing' that ally in that case? See corresponding situation with Disguised Weapon and Pier 13. Cards arriving as the result of other cards are for example not 'burnable' by Direct Intervention, for example, with the argument the arriving card wasn't 'played' in the first case. I'd think she's more similar to Ian Forrestal in as much as they can play cards needing an attribute they don't have, ie they can't use those attributes other than for playing cards. Compare blocking Ian having a Kiss of Ra played on him. Sten During