Question about Imp

Ths is proabably a dumb question but we were slightly confused about what happens then a minion gets burned when the Imp is on him For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface get burned also? -- *** Everyone Responds To Pain *** Regards, Steve "The Evil" Sierb # Monroe Auto Equipment Company # [W] : (313) 243-8003 # [I] : mag...@umdesun2.umd.umich.edu #

Steven Sierb (mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu) wrote: : Ths is proabably a dumb question but we were slightly confused about what : happens then a minion gets burned when the Imp is on him : For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface : Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller : of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? I believe that the controller of the burned vamp decides where Charnas goes. : Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface : get burned also? The only way to get rid of Charnas is to use ranged damage to kill him. But why would you want to as long as he does damage to an opposing vamp?

Charles Richard Robb (cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu) wrote: : The only way to get rid of Charnas is to use ranged damage to kill him. But why : would you want to as long as he does damage to an opposing vamp? If Charnas is on you, i think you would like the Imp dead. I STRonGly believe that Charnas may also die by killing the controlling Tremere. -- --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | <Ah, the CHAOTIC FURY of a distant voice, Michael Bist | "No Mr. Policeman, I didn't run over your sid...@umdsun2.umd.umich.edu | donut on purpose" :-p> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <3r318n$8...@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu>, Steven Sierb <mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu> wrote: >Ths is proabably a dumb question but we were slightly confused about what >happens then a minion gets burned when the Imp is on him > >For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface >Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller >of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? The controller of Dollface gets to place the Imp (I believe). >Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface >get burned also? Charnas is unique (well, Unique, too) in that he is recruited by one vampire and put on another. However, a retainer card isn't burned unless it's on a vampire card that's burned, so Merril's fate is separate from the Imp's. In other words, no, the imp sticks around after Merril is burned. He's Dollface's Imp now. | If you've got a hot lead on a new | *--Joe--* | PC game, call the announce line at | js...@vt.edu | ** csi...@discus.ise.vt.edu ** | +-------------------------------------+---------------------------------- "There. That should do nicely. After all, we don't want the locals to see grannies clipped to trash bins by their teeth, do we?" -- Mr. Gone

Before this gets out of hand, I just want to say that the decisions below are what were agreed upon by my group's reading of the card. You milage may vary, but the decisions are consistent with what the card says, though other interpretations are also valid. cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Richard Robb) wrote: >Steven Sierb (mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu) wrote: >: Ths is proabably a dumb question but we were slightly confused about >: what happens then a minion gets burned when the Imp is on him >: For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface >: Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller >: of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? >I believe that the controller of the burned vamp decides where Charnas goes. Nothing on the card says that the minion that Charnas is placed on becomes his controller. We play that the minion placing Charnas continues to be his controller (doesn't seem like the minion _receiving_ Charnas is controlling him, now does it?). This means that the controller of Merril would place Charnas after Dollface was burned. >: Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface >: get burned also? >The only way to get rid of Charnas is to use ranged damage to kill him. >But why would you want to as long as he does damage to an opposing vamp? I don't understand this last comment at all. Charnas does damage to the vampire he's placed on. Dollface od course would want to get rid of Charnas. I must be missing something. At any rate, if you play that Merril is Charnas' controller (as we do), then Charnas would be burned when Merril is burned (retainers are discarded when their controller is burned). If you play that Dollface is Charnas' controller, then burning Dollface would normally burn Charnas, but doesn't because of the card text. --- Eric Pettersen pe...@cgl.ucsf.edu (NeXTmail capable)

Steven Sierb <mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu> wrote: >For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface >Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller >of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? The controller of the vampire Charnas is currently played on gets to reassign him, so in this case it is Dollface's controller. >Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface >get burned also? No. But if the player who played Charnas is ousted, Charnas goes away. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

In article <3r4kom$l...@lastactionhero.rs.itd.umich.edu> sid...@umdsun2.umd.umich.edu (mike bist) writes: >Charles Richard Robb (cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu) wrote: >: The only way to get rid of Charnas is to use ranged damage to kill him. But why >: would you want to as long as he does damage to an opposing vamp? >If Charnas is on you, i think you would like the Imp dead. But you can't hurt him if he is on you. As per the card. > I STRonGly >believe that Charnas may also die by killing the controlling Tremere. Hmm, by controlling Tremere do you mean the one that employed him? Thanks, Steven Bauer

cr...@Ra.MsState.Edu (Charles Richard Robb) writes: >The only way to get rid of Charnas is to use ranged damage to kill him. >But why would you want to as long as he does damage to an opposing vamp? When there's will there's a way. You could play weather control if you happen to play Thaumaturgy deck. This causes damage to your own retainers as well. There is also Protean card called Body of Sun that does the trick but that causes aggravated damage. As far as I know these are the only cards that you can play to kill Charnas on your own vampire. Or did I miss something? ))marko -- I would give my right arm to be ambidextrous.

In article <marko.8...@snakemail.hut.fi>, [ quoted text not captured ] Charnas can not be damaged by the Minion he is placed on. If the opposing minion (for some reason) played weather control, then Charnas would take damage and be burned (since there is no way to prevent damage received by a retainer). From: aa...@hal.COM (Tom Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.deckmaster Subject: NEW: Rulings summary for Jyhad Date: 9 Nov 1994 13:11:24 -0800 Message-ID: <39rdts$s...@perv.hal.COM> Charnas the Imp: Cannot be damaged by host, but does not stop host from using effects which would normally damage it. For example, the host can use Body of Sun, but would not damage Charnas as a result. -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and Jyhad Rulemonger | and subject to card text

aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) wrote: >Steven Sierb <mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu> wrote: >>For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface Dollface >>gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller of Merril >>or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? >The controller of the vampire Charnas is currently played on gets >to reassign him, so in this case it is Dollface's controller. This'll teach me to post without having the card right in front of me. After arguing the opposite of the above ruling, I went back and re-read the card carefully. The confusion comes in the third sentence on the card where "its controller" gets to place Charnas, where "it" could refer to "the burned minion" or to "Charnas". Since "the burned minion" _precedes_ "it" in the sentence whereas "Charnas" follows "it", the above interpretation (from Tom Wylie) seems the most natural. Oh well! [ quoted text not captured ]

In article <3r6322$e...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: > >Steven Sierb <mag...@elvis.umd.umich.edu> wrote: >>For example: Merril Molitor plays Charnas the Imp on Dollface >>Dollface gets clawed by Basila and eaten (Amaranth) Does the controller >>of Merril or the controller of Dollface get to place the Imp?? > >The controller of the vampire Charnas is currently played on gets >to reassign him, so in this case it is Dollface's controller. > >>Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface >>get burned also? > >No. But if the player who played Charnas is ousted, Charnas goes away. > > Why? I understand( but disagree) why you might think Charnas is burned when the person who intial employed him is burned. The rulebook section 12.3 says that the retainer is burned when the minion they are employed by is burned. So what does employ mean? But to say he is burned when the player that played him is ousted seems totally pointless and inconsitent with the rules. I admit, Charnas is next to impossible to get rid of, but I don't feel this is a good solution. Just my $0.02 Steven Bauer Email: ba...@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu

In article <D9wo3...@news.hawaii.edu>, Steven Bauer <ba...@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu> wrote: >>>Also, what happens if Merril gets burned? Is the imp who is on Dollface >>>get burned also? >> >>No. But if the player who played Charnas is ousted, Charnas goes away. >> >Why? > But to say he is burned when the player that played him is ousted >seems totally pointless and inconsitent with the rules. When a player is ousted (this is the player, not a card), all cards owned by that player leave the game, no matter where they are or who controls them. From #9, The Golden Rule of Card Ownership: "When you are ousted from the game, the cards you began the game with are immediately returned to you." [ quoted text not captured ]

Steven Bauer (ba...@wiliki.eng.hawaii.edu) wrote: : In article <3r6322$e...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) writes: : > : >No. But if the player who played Charnas is ousted, Charnas goes away. : Why? : I understand( but disagree) why you might think Charnas is burned : when the person who intial employed him is burned. The rulebook section : 12.3 says that the retainer is burned when the minion they are employed by : is burned. So what does employ mean? : But to say he is burned when the player that played him is ousted : seems totally pointless and inconsitent with the rules. This is not an ad hoc solution to Charnas, but rather a long-standing rule, spelled out clearly in section 9 - The Golden Rule of Card Ownership. This section basically says (paraphrased) that when a Meth is ousted, all cards they brought into play are returned to that Meth's ash heap, no matter who is now controlliong them. Many people either accidentally or deliberately ignore this rule, in which case, Charnas becomes even more of a bugger to get rid of. Shane H.W. Travis | Be not forgetful to entertain strangers, for tra...@duke.usask.ca | thereby some have entertained angels unawares. Saskatoon, Saskatchewan | -- Hebrews 13:2