Updated Reprints from the Camarilla Edition

http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Preview_CEReprints.html Updated Reprints Some of the reprints in The Camarilla Edition (some in boosters and some only found in the pre-con starters) function differently than they did in previous printings. Naturally, any card that had errata is reprinted with the errata incorporated in card text. The list below doesn't include those changes. Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase. Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior only once each combat. Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool. Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's strength (and are therefore hand strikes) Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood. Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal agg damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a standard strike). Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking. Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood. Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect). Drain Essence: costs 1 blood. Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with yourself). Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution. Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is limited to 4 blood. Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool. Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1 strength. Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7. Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any amount of agg damage. Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option. Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during the master phase, not the minion phase. Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be repaid. Louvre, Paris: no cost Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior). Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood. Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn option. Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain flight. Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no Ventrue. Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1) during your untap phase. Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters Psychic Projection: is put in play. Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a strike. Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped vampire. Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade. Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1. Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game. Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique. Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost. Weather Control: only one each combat.

>Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any >amount of agg damage. > I'm curious whether Cold Iron weapons (which does agg to Kiasyd) would be a legal target for ISS. Halcyan 2

[ quoted text not captured ] No. It is worded with the "normal strike" verbage, like Concealed Weapon. It doesn't consider special cases for the striker nor the strikee (nor the combat - e.g, Dawn Operation). -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

"The Lasombra" <thela...@hotmail.com> ha scritto nel messaggio news:132cdedd.02072...@posting.google.com... > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/Preview_CEReprints.html > Let's see : > Updated Reprints <snip> > Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase. > fine > Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior > only once each combat. fine > > Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool. > mmh, never used, should be just fine > Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's > strength (and are therefore hand strikes) ?? can't see the reason for this. it seems a big change in thaumathurgy matters.... > > Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions > fine > Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood. > both inferior and superior ? if so, presence is now pretty de-powered by the CE > Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal > agg damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a > standard strike). Fine, althought i hope that the definition for "Standard strike" has been implemented in the rule booklet > > Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking. > Fine and logic > Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood. > fine > Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger > vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect). > Some controversials arised from what "play"/"place" terms should mean here. fine anyway. > Drain Essence: costs 1 blood. > mm, another big change in tha matters. maybe this way is less wallpaper > Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with > yourself). logic and fine. > > Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution. > ??can't see the reason why here too. anyway maybe it's a (osuvre) balance matter > Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar guess it's ok > > Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is > limited to 4 blood. fine, maybe the blood gain could be raised to 5. > > Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool. > fine > Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1 > strength. logic and fine. > > Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire > fine > Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7. > fine > Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any > amount of agg damage. far more useful right now :-) .> > Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option. > > Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during > the master phase, not the minion phase. imho, this seems a little mistake: in order to re-balance the card, the burning should have been assigned to the untap phase (much like antedeluvian awakening does). this way, it can be still too much a game winner. > > Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be > repaid. fine > > Louvre, Paris: no cost fine > > Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior). this is the most debated, i think. i'm still on the side of those who think that the inferior version didn't need a cost at all. > > Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood. > guess it's fine > Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding > why reprinting a card that is banned from tournament play? > Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn > option. wow. sounds good now. > > Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain > flight. fine. > > Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no > Ventrue. fine and much better > > Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1) > during your untap phase. mm, pretty good right now. > > Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters > otherwise it was too much similar to secret horde ? > Psychic Projection: is put in play. > just fine > Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a > strike. and it is not targetted y the "new" illegal search and seizure :-) > > Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped > vampire. uncertain about this > > Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade. > fine > Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1. > can't see too well the difference.... > Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game. > yup..along with the new hostile takeover, it seems very hard to steal away other's vampires right now > Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique. contesting a tremere convocation ?...why ? > > Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost. > just fine > Weather Control: only one each combat. fine and balanced. Imho, the majority of the "changes" (actually, some just re-writing cards with clarifications) are good. The only point i'm still missing is about presence and the inferior majesty/catatonic fear costs. anyway, thanks for posting the update ciao Emiliano, v.ekn prince of Rome

<cut and pasted from debat with Awazz> 1)Al's Army Apparatus: only usable during your minion phase. This doesn't really affect this card so much as it reduces its ability as a cycling mechanism. 2)Aura Reading: superior is +2 hand size. It can be played at superior only once each combat. I never really saw mutiples of these being thrown down. 3)Blood Puppy: costs 2 pool. This definantly lowers the cost of this wallpaper to the point that it might be playable. 4)Blood Rage/Fury, Cauldron of Blood: do damage based on the striker's strength (and are therefore hand strikes) Sweet! Now IG doesn't hose the Tremere (of course that assumes that the Tremere are actually playing with these cards) 5)Bureacratic Overload: increases the cost of political actions Yeah! Now a political counter that doesn't actually require a Malkavian. 6)Catatonic Fear: costs 1 blood. Yeah! S:CE at inferior is no longer free. 7)Concealed Weapon: no discipline req., weapon cannot be unique, deal agg damage, cost more than 2 pool, or deal more than 3 damage (with a standard strike). Yeah! Unwallpapers a card. 8)Day Operation: Only vampires are restricted from blocking. Yeah! Makes allies more useful. 9)Delaying Tactics: costs 1 blood. Yeah! no more opponents packing 8 free DT's in their weenie Anarch Revolt deck. 10)Derange: requires a Malk or Malk antitribu. Is placed on a younger vampire (using the former superior Dementation effect). I hate this card, but at least it is more useable and less corner-case. 11)Drain Essence: costs 1 blood. Yeah, They finally balanced this card. 12)Dramatic Upheaval: Change places with another Methuselah (not with yourself). No real effect here. 13)Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution. Yeah! Mono-discipline weenie embrace decks get hosed. 14)Fear of Mekhet: can be moved to a justicar Seems reasonable. 15)Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is limited to 4 blood. This is probably the biggest change in the set. I for one do not miss its passing. 16)Forest of Shadows: costs 1 pool. Fine, Stealth for Malkavians 17)Ghoul Retainer: cannot use a weapon used by another retainer. Has 1 strength. This is intuitive and good 18 )Graverobbing: targets another Methuselah's vampire This makes sense. 19)Hostile Takeover: target must have capacity less than 7. Good, no more Gideon Fontain hostile takeovers your Etrius or Democritus or Wynn. 20)Illegal Search and Seizure: can also burn a weapon that does any amount of agg damage. That makes sense. "Oh no officers you can't take my improvised flamethrower, I have rights." 21)Island of Yiaros: no inherent burn option. Good, arsons are still fairly common. 22)Judgment: Camarilla Segregation: Methuselah can burn a vampire during the master phase, not the minion phase. Keeps diablerists from being burned to get rid of this card before a bloodhunt passes. 23)Kindred Segregation: only pool costs (not blood costs) need to be repaid. This is an interesting twist which increases the power of Shambling Hordes decks, but also reduces some confusion about who should pay the blood costs. 24)Louvre, Paris: no cost I still don't think that this unwallpapers this card. 25)Majesty: costs 1 blood (no additional cost for superior). Yeah! S:CE at inferior is no longer free. 26)Marcellus: Political actions cost Nosferatu an extra blood. Even better, now that costs them up front 27)Monocle of Clarity: answers about the future are not binding Good, no more self contradicting 50 clause questions. 28)Oxford University: no cost, X pool for X votes, no inherent burn option. Good, but still not great. 29)Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain flight. Cool, although I kind of liked my maneuver. 30)Powerbase: Berlin: No cost. Doesn't burn if the controller has no Ventrue. Good, but still not great. 31)Powerbase: Washington, D.C.: Can move 2 blood back (instead of 1) during your untap phase. Awesome! 32)Protracted Investment: costs 2 pool, gets 5 counters This may improve its usage. It certainly increased its profitabilty %, but still not to the point of Short Term Investment. 33)Psychic Projection: is put in play. Good. 34)Rowan Ring: sends opposing vampire to torpor with the ring as a strike. Unbans the cards. Good. 35)Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped vampire. Gives it parity with Eternal Vigilence. 36)Succubus Club: only one trade per untap phase. Tap to trade. I still think this card should be banned. 37)Taste of Vitae: play at end of round. Only 1. This really only affect Celerity vampires. 38)Temptation of Greater Power: only 1 can be played in a game. That is a relief. 39)Tremere Convocation: no cost. unique. Good. 40)Wasserschloss Anif, Austria: no cost. Sweet. 41)Weather Control: only one each combat. Good, this prevents the Ben Peal 60 weather control "we both go to torpor" weenie Thaumaturgy decks.

XZealot wrote: > 29)Patagia: Allows the vampire to burn a blood to temporarily gain flight. > > Cool, although I kind of liked my maneuver. The maneuver is still there. http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/images/CardCE3pa.jpg [ quoted text not captured ]

> Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is > limited to 4 blood. > Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped > vampire. Whattaf***! Now I have waited 1 and a half year (all my time as a V:tES-player) to play one of those prince-decks, and then they the cards which make such decks good. Damn!

Martin Bruset Solberg <tha...@online.no> wrote in message news:Lef19.3778$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no... > > Fifth Tradition: cannot target the acting vampire. Blood gain is > > limited to 4 blood. > > > Second Tradition: the effect costs 1 blood when used by a tapped > > vampire. > > > Whattaf***! Now I have waited 1 and a half year (all my time as a > V:tES-player) to play one of those prince-decks, and then they * the cards > which make such decks good. Damn! > *Supposed to be "destroy"

"Martin Bruset Solberg" <tha...@online.no> wrote in message news:Lef19.3778$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no... [ quoted text not captured ] Yep, time to get on the combat bandwagon. All Aboard!! Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr. XZealot Archon of the Swamp

"Martin Bruset Solberg" <tha...@online.no> wrote in message news:<yof19.3783$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no>... [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, the meaning was relativly clear in context. If I might make a suggestion: Parity Shift - tasty and nasty vote card Judgement: Camarilla Segregation - even better with rules changes Archon - Donal, how much do you dislike lady anne? Anathema - Donal's reward for the above Kindred Restructure hmmm... you can be there, then you there, then me here. I'm done and the anarch revolts kill all of you. Third Tradition: Progeny, The - with Embrace nerfed this suddenly becomes more than a proxy for embraces. Blood Hunt - see Donal above. not to mention that 2nd tradition isn't all that messed up, only one blood to untap if you need to. As I usually use it with a superior obediance, I'm not going to sweat the one blood change. 5ths change seems a little overblown, but I'll cope somehow. Cameron Domer

>No. It is worded with the "normal strike" verbage, like Concealed Weapon. >It doesn't consider special cases for the striker nor the strikee (nor the >combat - e.g, Dawn Operation). So it seems that Machine Blitz is the only remaining card that relies on "the amount the chosen weapon would inflict if it were chosen as a strike" [LSJ 19970224]. (Since Concealed Weapon and Illegal Search and Seizure have been changed). On the one hand, it does seem a bit odd since Machine Blitz is now the odd man out. Though if MB was changed to "normal strike" you'd only further wallpaper an already wallpapered card. Just my two cents. Halcyan 2

"Martin Bruset Solberg" <tha...@online.no> wrote in message news:<yof19.3783$Py1....@news2.ulv.nextra.no>... [ quoted text not captured ] I can sympathise, but I think the word destroy is a bit much. 2nd Tradition is still a very yummy card. I have a EuroBruhaj deck (no rush) with: INTERCEPT: 13 cards, all second traditions COMBAT: 10 Imoortal Grapple, 12 Torn Signpost, 1 Fists of Death, + various celerity other cards include: 4 deflections, 8 tastes for blood gain, 6 Parity shifts With the new set, I will have the option of swapping Don (the only type 1 in the deck) for the new Justicar with permanent intercept. Compare that with a Tzimisce deck (no rush) with: INTERCEPT: 13 cards: 3 Eternal Vigilance, 5 Precognition, 5 Enhanced Senses COMBAT: 10 Carrion Crows, tons of flesh-sculpting nasties other cards include 4 Telepathic Misdirection, a pile of combat, and 8 Inner Essence for blood conservation / gain. Which deck would you rather be bleeding with Malkavians? I would prefer to bleed the Sabbat. They have only 19 intercept and no bounce, or 15 intercept and 4 bounce, compared to the Bruhaj's 26 intercept and four bounce from the same number of cards. The Sabbat untap costs 1 *and* requires setup, whereas the princes get theirs straight away. So the Bruhaj beat the Tzimisce at one of their clan specialties. (I would appreciate an Auspex +2/3 card to make up for this, like the opposite of Forgotten Labarynth) Also - either deck will torpor your bleeders if they catch them. But the camarilla guys are slightly better able to send them there empty (and, if needed, have the votes to diablerise them). In summary, I think 2nd tradition is still better than the Sabbat equivalent. 5th tradition is now a good card, rather than a brilliant one. It's still decent blood gain for decks that can't use Restoration, voter cap etc. It's still more easily played than the Sabbat equivalent, Bloodbath - I think that requires *you* to have two big Sabbat, whereas 5th requires you to have 1 Prince, and the blood can go to any vampire on the table. Eg - stuck with your only other vampire in torpor, and an intercept predator? You can offer your prey a deal - You fill one of their vampires, and won't bleed next turn, and in return they rescue your guy. It's now about balanced with it's Sabbat equivalent. Maybe it is even a little weak, particularly considering the Sabbat have access to Festivo and Hungry Coyote. Even the independants have some good options - Patshiv and Acquired Ventrue assets spring to mind - that the Camarilla don't. In summary, 5th tradition had been axed, BUT it's still not a bad card. The changes have certainly hosed some specific decks, that is, decks that combine several of these depowered cards. Still, but that is probably less bad than the good balancing effect.

Hollowboy <icantbelievehollow...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:614f2a39.02072...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Well, I guess your right. The cards were owerpowered (which was the reason I wanted to use them). It probably is the best thing they tuned them down a bit. Think I'm going to use them anyway.

>Embrace: doesn't receive a discipline card during action resolution. Was writing a post in response to one of the ones that addressed this in greater depth, then got disconnected. Anyway, the card will still likely have some small number of uses. The flexibility of the card being shot to hell. While this change will fix some abuses, it throws out all sorts of nonabusive uses. Wouldn't be so bad if not for two things. First, this brings it out of line with other create vampire actions. Third Tradition and Create Gargoyle were already better if you could meet the requirements. The balancing factor was that The Embrace didn't need special requirements. Now, it falls far below Third, Gargoyle, and Creation Rites. With Third being easy to play and Gargoylelings having around two and a half disciplines, I don't see the balance between these cards. Second, there were other possible fixes. Two pool instead of two blood would have been one. Limiting where the skill card could come from* would have been another. Restricting the action to vampires of a certain capacity would have stopped some of the weenie/weenie decks. Even better, use the no skill card change but allow a skill card if the acting vampire is cap 5 or higher. * Any limitation would have weakened the card somewhat, some more than others. Limiting to hand would force a combo. Limiting to hand and ash heap would have stopped deck thinning. Etc.