[LSJ] Vampiric Disease, Society of Leopold, and Owain timing

LSJ, This answer doesn't exist anywhere that I can point a player to, so I'd like to get this question answered even though it seems obvious to me in which way the effects are ordered. VampX has 2 blood, is Vampiric-Diseased, has Society of Leopold on him, and Owain is in-play. When he untaps, can I order the three effects during the same timing phase (I'm assuming that'd be A.3, here: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline) or does the Vampiric Disease effect happen during A.1 since VD says "When an afflicted vampire untaps,..."? I guess the real question is: Can you queue "during the untap phase" effects in A.1 before "when a vampire untaps" effects, or do "when a vampire untaps" effects necessarily happen before "during the untap phase" effects? Vampiric Disease Master. Put a disease counter on any vampire. Each time a vampire with a disease counter is in combat at close range with another vampire, the second vampire gets a counter as well. An afflicted vampire cannot gain blood by hunting. When an afflicted vampire untaps, he or she burns a blood or, if unable, burns the disease counter. A vampire can have only one disease counter. Society of Leopold Unique master. Put this card on a vampire. During his or her controller's untap phase, the vampire with this card either burns 1 blood or is burned (the controller's choice). The vampire with this card can move it to any other vampire as a +1 stealth (D) action. Owain Evans, The Wanderer Ventrue antitribu (group 3) Capacity: 8 AUS DOM FOR cel pre Sabbat: During any Methuselah's untap phase, if Owain is ready, you may move a blood from the blood bank to a vampire that Methuselah controls. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! http://vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Obviously IANLSJ, but as I understand it, isn't the first thing that happens in the untap phase that all cards controlled by the current methuselah untap (which would trigger VD counter) and then the current meth can order untap phase actions as they please? Jonathan [ quoted text not captured ]

On Nov 12, 6:07 am, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > LSJ, > This answer doesn't exist anywhere that I can point a player to, > so I'd like to get this question answered even though it seems > obvious to me in which way the effects are ordered. > > VampX has 2 blood, is Vampiric-Diseased, has Society of Leopold on > him, and Owain is in-play. When he untaps, can I order the three > effects during the same timing phase (I'm assuming that'd be A.3, > here:http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline) or does > the Vampiric Disease effect happen during A.1 since VD says "When > an afflicted vampire untaps,..."? Owain Evan's ability is triggered when his controller gets the impulse (and cannot be ordered with other mandatory effects during the acting Methuselah's untap phase). http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/22c2c88bcb680694 > I guess the real question is: Can you queue "during the untap phase" > effects in A.1 before "when a vampire untaps" effects, or do "when > a vampire untaps" effects necessarily happen before "during the untap > phase" effects? The latter (unless he's infernal, of course). http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ca825a1e1ed65e12

On Nov 12, 3:17 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 12, 6:07 am, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > > LSJ, > > This answer doesn't exist anywhere that I can point a player to, > > so I'd like to get this question answered even though it seems > > obvious to me in which way the effects are ordered. > > > VampX has 2 blood, is Vampiric-Diseased, has Society of Leopold on > > him, and Owain is in-play. When he untaps, can I order the three > > effects during the same timing phase (I'm assuming that'd be A.3, > > here:http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline) or does > > the Vampiric Disease effect happen during A.1 since VD says "When > > an afflicted vampire untaps,..."? > > Owain Evan's ability is triggered when his controller gets the impulse > (and cannot be ordered with other mandatory effects during the acting > Methuselah's untap phase).http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/22c2... > > > I guess the real question is: Can you queue "during the untap phase" > > effects in A.1 before "when a vampire untaps" effects, or do "when > > a vampire untaps" effects necessarily happen before "during the untap > > phase" effects? > > The latter (unless he's infernal, of course).http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/ca82... Correct

On Nov 12, 2:17 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Nov 12, 6:07 am, "Kevin M." <youw...@imaspammer.org> wrote: > > > LSJ, > > This answer doesn't exist anywhere that I can point a player to, > > so I'd like to get this question answered even though it seems > > obvious to me in which way the effects are ordered. > > > VampX has 2 blood, is Vampiric-Diseased, has Society of Leopold on > > him, and Owain is in-play. When he untaps, can I order the three > > effects during the same timing phase (I'm assuming that'd be A.3, > > here:http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/index.php?line=outline) or does > > the Vampiric Disease effect happen during A.1 since VD says "When > > an afflicted vampire untaps,..."? > > Owain Evan's ability is triggered when his controller gets the impulse > (and cannot be ordered with other mandatory effects during the acting > Methuselah's untap phase).http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/22c2... Oooooo, Kevin, I think Anson should be burned already, but let's not rewind. So basically, Owain can never save a different Methuselah's empty vampire from an untap phase Society of Leopold burning. Owain can save a vampire belonging to his Methuselah though, since he doesn't have to pass priority to anyone. Later, ~Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] Yep, It's all about the impulse. The word whose mention doesn't exist, yet governs us all. Impulse is the deity of VtES! Tiago

[ quoted text not captured ] I must be missing something in my absence... what is 'impulse'?

On 14 marras, 05:37, Screaming Vermillian <alexandernja...@gmail.com> wrote: > > I must be missing something in my absence... what is 'impulse'? It's the right to play cards and effects. By default the impulse belongs to the acting player or the one whose turn it currently is. If the player with the impulse chooses not to play anything the impulse passes clockwise to the next player. If he does play something the impulse returns to the acting player. When it's gone a full circle around the table without anybody playing anything the game moves on to the next step.

On Nov 14, 2:37 pm, Screaming Vermillian <alexandernja...@gmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] > I must be missing something in my absence... what is 'impulse'?- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - Impulse is most simply described as "The Right to Play A Card or Effect Now". When it is your turn and you are acting, you start with the impulse (you have the right to play a card). Then once the action starts, the person targeted by the action now has the impulse to declare their block intention. Then it passes back to you for you to play any additional stealth. Then back to the 'blocker' so they can attempt to generate more intercept, and so on. So in this case, the mandatory effects ensure that the "Acting" Methuselah cannot give another player a chance to use Owain's text because you cannot choose to not take a mandatory action/effect. IANLAJ but this would also imply that *all* mandatory effects, (whilst they can be managed in any order), must happen before elective effects such as HGs even by the same Methuselah... Yes? No? (this could drastically change the effect of Society of Leopold and other cards like it).

On 14 nov, 11:59, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > IANLAJ but this would also imply that *all* mandatory effects, (whilst > they can be managed in any order), must happen before elective effects > such as HGs even by the same Methuselah... Yes? No? (this could > drastically change the effect of Society of Leopold and other cards > like it). No, mandatory effects(*) using the "during" keyword can be ordered with other effects using the "during" keyword. The mandatory part means you can't pass the impulse if you still have mandatory effects to handle. (*) Mandatory actions cannot be ordered with non-mandatory actions, per rulebook.

[ quoted text not captured ] That's incorrect. Once the action starts, the acting player has to declare that he/she has no more cards to play before it passes to the target for block declarations. > Then it passes back to > you for you to play any additional stealth. Correct in context. > Then back to the > 'blocker' so they can attempt to generate more intercept, and so on. > Also incorrect. The impulse only goes back to the 'blocker' after you declare that you are done playing cards/effects. For example, target declares block (impulse back to acting minion) acting minion plays Faceless Night (impulse remains with acting minion) acting minion plays Command of the Beast (impulse remains with acting minion) acting minion plays Conditioning (impulse remains with acting minion) acting minion plays Elder Impersonation (impulse remains with acting minion) acting minion declares no more effects (impulse over to 'blocker'). -YY

On 14 marras, 12:59, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Then once the action starts, the person targeted by the action now has > the impulse to declare their block intention. Then it passes back to > you for you to play any additional stealth. Then back to the > 'blocker' so they can attempt to generate more intercept, and so on. I'm pretty sure that the impulse passes clockwise, it's just very unusual that any player other than the target would play anything. So if I announce a rush with Chas Giovanni Tello against my predator's minion my prey gets the first chance to discard a master, then grand prey and so on.

[ quoted text not captured ] No. The impulse passes to defending player (i.e. the target of a directed action, or the controller of the opposing minion in combat) first, unless there is no defending player, at which point it goes clockwise around the table. So in your example above, your predator gets the first chance to discard a Master card, followed by your prey, grand- prey and so on. Rulebook reference: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulebook/rulebook.html#sec1_6_1_5 -YY