My question(for the second time) concerns the superior version of enchant
kindred. This card is very similar to govern the unaligned but for three
differences.
1) doesn't cost the vamp. doing it one blood
2) only puts 2 influence counters on a vamp instead of 3
3) and is not at +1 stealth.
My question is is enchant kindred superior version suppoed to be at +1 stealth
like govern the unaligned and 4th tradition: accounting?
If not, its kind of crummy, b/c anyone can block it without even using a
intercept of somekind.
(Btw I'd like an official ruling if at all possible, but feel free to leave
your opinions, thanks)
In article <3dn396$j...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh
Hsu) wrote:
[ quoted text not captured ]
No, it is not at +1 Stealth as far as I can tell from the misprint lists.
The lack of cost in blood is probably why no stealth and one less blood
gained.
You will notice that most Presence-based actions ("Social Charm" and "Legal
Manipulations" come to mind) are not at stealth. Stealth is sort of
contrary to the idea of Presence - don't you think?
However, I do believe "Entrancement" is at stealth, but that is bedroom
games, so I hope it is at stealth! ;)=
--
Dale Hurtt
dhu...@harris.com
In article <dhurtt-27...@m15t.ess.harris.com>,
Dale Hurtt <dhu...@ic1d.harris.com> wrote:
>In article <3dn396$j...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh
>Hsu) wrote:
>>>
>> My question(for the second time) concerns the superior version of enchant
>> kindred. This card is very similar to govern the unaligned but for three
>> differences.
>> 1) doesn't cost the vamp. doing it one blood
>> 2) only puts 2 influence counters on a vamp instead of 3
>> 3) and is not at +1 stealth.
>>
>> My question is is enchant kindred superior version suppoed to be at +1 stealth
>> like govern the unaligned and 4th tradition: accounting?
>>
>> If not, its kind of crummy, b/c anyone can block it without even using a
>> intercept of somekind.
>>
>> (Btw I'd like an official ruling if at all possible, but feel free to leave
>> your opinions, thanks)>
>No, it is not at +1 Stealth as far as I can tell from the misprint lists.
>The lack of cost in blood is probably why no stealth and one less blood
>gained.
Actually, in most cases, when there is a blood cost, the effect is increased
by one. comparison
social charm vs. legal manipulations.
same effect, but legal manipulations costs 1 more blood and bleeds at +1 more
then social charm.
(assuming blood rageis supposed to be a tham. card)
blood rage and blood fury.
same effect, but fury costs 1 blood and does 1 more damage.
govern the unaligned and enchant kindred seem to follow that same genre.
Both have the same overall effect except for the differences noted above.
>
>You will notice that most Presence-based actions ("Social Charm" and "Legal
>Manipulations" come to mind) are not at stealth. Stealth is sort of
>contrary to the idea of Presence - don't you think?
>
the idea of giving a bewitching oration(+2/4 votes) while lost in crowds(+1/2
stealth) doesn't make sense either. Extrapolating this game to real life
doesn't work too well ;).
[ quoted text not captured ]
Josh Hsu (jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
: the idea of giving a bewitching oration(+2/4 votes) while lost in crowds(+1/2: stealth) doesn't make sense either. Extrapolating this game to real life
: doesn't work too well ;).
How doesn't it make sense?
Extrapolate Bewitching Oration to a real-life situation: a political
rally. Ever watch a leadership convention for a party? Often a
candidate relies on impressing the crowd with his/her stage-presence (eg,
speechmaking ability, ability to excite the crowd, etc.) to CONvince more
people to vote in their favor. Carreers can be made or broken on the
basis of a single oration.
As for Lost in Crowds to gain Stealth, that makes perfect sense! Hide
in a crowd and do exactly as they do and you'll be almost invisible, no
matter how hard someone's looking for you. IE blend in, be
inconspicuous, etc...
--
* Check out this URL for some links I like to use. *
* http://www.cfn.cs.dal.ca/~aa343/Profile.html *
In article <D1IrD...@cs.dal.ca>,
Joseph William Dixon <aa...@cfn.cs.dal.ca> wrote:
>Josh Hsu (jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu) wrote:
>: the idea of giving a bewitching oration(+2/4 votes) while lost in crowds(+1/2
>: stealth) doesn't make sense either. Extrapolating this game to real life
>: doesn't work too well ;).
>
> How doesn't it make sense?
> Extrapolate Bewitching Oration to a real-life situation: a political
>rally. Ever watch a leadership convention for a party? Often a
>candidate relies on impressing the crowd with his/her stage-presence (eg,
>speechmaking ability, ability to excite the crowd, etc.) to CONvince more
>people to vote in their favor. Carreers can be made or broken on the
>basis of a single oration.
> As for Lost in Crowds to gain Stealth, that makes perfect sense! Hide
>in a crowd and do exactly as they do and you'll be almost invisible, no
>matter how hard someone's looking for you. IE blend in, be
>inconspicuous, etc...
Obviously, you are not getting my point. It his difficult to give a
bewitching oration while lost in crowds. In fact, its difficult to give a
bewitching oration steathily seeing as how you are doing the oration in
public. Besides, there are other examples that could just as well portray how
this can't be extrapolated very well...multiple flak jackets(no rule against
this) etc.
As far as I know, the fact that superior Enchant Kindred is at 0 stealth
is not an error.
Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for
aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
Before this escalates any further, let me just say that yes, you may be able
to justify most points, but there will always be at least one case that will
slip through and defy logic.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Nonsense. Bewitching Oration is an action modifier, right? A stealthy vampire
sneaks an item onto the agenda, and then a mysterious voice from somewhere
within the crowd makes a clear & lucid comment which sways the voters.
Oration is speaking. Not necessarily at the front of the crowd on a podium
or for 30 minutes.
!-----------------------------------------------------------------------------!
Rick Mc Leod - Systems Wizard, Court Jester, Guardian of the Galaxy Environment
MDA P/L PO Box 1692 N Sydney NSW 2058 Australia (02) 956-7966
r...@mda.com.au/NIC:RM25/There can be only one...fortunately.
jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh Hsu) writes:
[ quoted text not captured ]
But how did they justify the point? By explaining how Presence and stealth
(an oration and crowd-hiding) could work together. And what was the point
you were trying to make? That Presence and stealth (Enchant Kindred at +1
stealth) could work together. Ta-da!
I guess it was the old "Rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season,
rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season, well I say it's duck season
so shoot me now!"
In article <reynolds....@shazam.cs.iastate.edu>,
Owen Reynolds <reyn...@cs.iastate.edu> wrote:
>jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh Hsu) writes:
>>>Before this escalates any further, let me just say that yes, you may be able
>>to justify most points, but there will always be at least one case that will
>>slip through and defy logic.>
> But how did they justify the point? By explaining how Presence and stealth
>(an oration and crowd-hiding) could work together. And what was the point
>you were trying to make? That Presence and stealth (Enchant Kindred at +1
>stealth) could work together. Ta-da!
If you really want to go back to their example, saying that a bewitching
oration is a vampire yelling out a particularly lucid point in the middle of a
vote is wrong. That would more then likely be the dread gaze function. If
the vampire is calling a vote, it can't hide in the middle of nowhere where no
one(especially the blocker wannabe) can find it and hope to 1) actually get
everyone together to call the vote and 2) make such a large impact with their
speech as to why you should vote with him to gain 4 votes(more then a justicar
I might add).
Anyway, I think I may be getting off targett here. My original complaint was
that enchant kindred seems to be a govern the unaligned-like card that is less
powerful and less costly(doesn't cost minion one blood), yet the superior
ability does not have the +1 stealth like govern the unaligned does. Yes, I
also said that you can't reasonably and realistically explain every action at
stealth, but thats because I don't think it is possible. This does not mean I
don't think that you should be able to do these things in the game, just that
it isn't realistic(which doesn't really matter anyway since it is just a
game).
> I guess it was the old "Rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season,
>rabbit season, duck season, rabbit season, well I say it's duck season
>so shoot me now!"
Huh?
Whats this for? ;)
> >You will notice that most Presence-based actions ("Social Charm" and "Legal
> >Manipulations" come to mind) are not at stealth. Stealth is sort of
> >contrary to the idea of Presence - don't you think?
> >> the idea of giving a bewitching oration(+2/4 votes) while lost in crowds(+1/2
> stealth) doesn't make sense either. Extrapolating this game to real life
> doesn't work too well ;).
Perhaps not - but it works fine in this case. A vote action always
occurs in two parts. First, the calling vampire must make his or her
way to the "vampire legislature" (wherever it is that votes are called).
It is this action that can be blocked, preventing the vote from ever
occuring. It makes perfect sense for a vampire to lose him- or her-self
in crowds in order to get there unobserved.
After the vampire gets to the voting hall, the vote can occur. Once
in the voting hall, vampires are not subject to attack from other vamps.
So the Bewitching Oration again makes sense.
papillo the rationalizer
In article <3dtogb$e...@news.acns.nwu.edu>, jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh
Hsu) wrote:
> Obviously, you are not getting my point. It his difficult to give a
> bewitching oration while lost in crowds. In fact, its difficult to give a
> bewitching oration steathily seeing as how you are doing the oration in
> public.
How about you getting lost in crowds to avoid the blockers who want to beat
the snot out of you on the way to the stadium where you are going to give
your Bewitching Oration to pass the vote?
Role-play it! ;)=
--
Dale Hurtt
dhu...@harris.com
dhu...@ic1d.harris.com (Dale Hurtt) writes:
>jo...@merle.acns.nwu.edu (Josh Hsu) wrote:
>>> Obviously, you are not getting my point. It his difficult to give a
>> bewitching oration while lost in crowds. In fact, its difficult to give a
>> bewitching oration steathily seeing as how you are doing the oration in
>> public.>
>How about you getting lost in crowds to avoid the blockers who want to beat
>the snot out of you on the way to the stadium where you are going to give
>your Bewitching Oration to pass the vote?
I rather like the idea of someone playing Lost in Crowds to modify the Movement
of the Slow Body card, for instance. That coffin cruising inconspicuously down
ths sidewalk is a good image.
Alec
--
Alec Habig, Indiana University High Energy Astrophysics
aha...@bigbang.astro.indiana.edu
http://astrowww.astro.indiana.edu/personnel/ahabig/
Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns.