Ashes to Ashes and Undead Persistence

One of my players asked me this today. Comments would be appreciated. Thalles -------------------------------------------- Ashes to Ashes [BL] Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Thanatosis/Fortitude [for] Only usable by a vampire being burned; he or she is sent into torpor instead. [thn] Prevent all damage. This vampire untaps and goes to torpor (ending combat). [THN] As [thn] above, and this vampire gains 2 blood from the blood bank. Undead Persistence [Jyhad, V:TES, Sabbat, SW] Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Fortitude [for] Only usable when this vampire should go into torpor. This vampire gets an optional press and will not go to torpor until combat ends (although he or she is still considered wounded and can be burned as normal). If 3 rounds of combat pass with no cards played, combat ends. This vampire is sent into torpor after combat. [FOR] Prevent 2 damage. What happens when I play the Ashes to Ashes and then play the undead persistence as I am going to torpor. Do I: A) Untap continue combat and when it finishes gain two blood B) Untap continue combat but not gain two blood c) Untap, continue combat and gain two blood before the next round starts D) Go to torpor from the undead persistence and not untap Also If combat continues what would be the effect of playing another ashes to ashes? Would I: A) Gain an additional two blood B) Gain only two blood from the last ashes to ashes C) Or something totally different Daniel Kasatchkow

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:23:27 +0800, "The Horror" <tdem...@anhb.uwa.edu.au> wrote: >

On Wed, 26 Mar 2003 11:23:27 +0800, "The Horror" <tdem...@anhb.uwa.edu.au> wrote: >What happens when I play the Ashes to Ashes and then play the undead >persistence as I am going to torpor. >Do I: >c) Untap, continue combat and gain two blood before the next round starts You can two blood when you play the card Ashes to Ashes. Only the go to torpor effect of the card is delayed. >Also If combat continues what would be the effect of playing another ashes >to ashes? >A) Gain an additional two blood > > Just as the "go to torpor" effect of Disarm is delayed until the > > end of combat by Undead Persistence, the "go to torpor instead" effect > > of Ashes to Ashes will be delayed until combat actually ends. > > > > > > LSJ 2002-02-11 > > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=3C67C186.22C0B084%40white-wolf.com > > > > --------------------- > > if a vamp plays undead persistence when about to go to torpor, and > > then in a later round plays ashes to ashes what happens? Does ATA > > end combat? Or does the ATA effect only kick in when the vamp > > finally goes to torpor after the rounds of undead persistence? > > > > ATA doesn't end combat per se. It sends the vampire to torpor. Undead > > Persistence prevents that effect. The rest of A2A's effect occurs > > normally. > > > > --------------------- Carpe noctem. Lasombra http://www.TheLasombra.com

so... what, you're planning some sort of weird bloat combat thing here? 1) Minion tap the Baron to 1 2) Baron Bums Rushes 3) Baron strikes for 1, Oppossing minion plays his strike 4) Baron plays Ashes to Ashes to prevent, uptap, gain 2 blood, and go to torpor. Then, Baron plays Undead Persistence to press, and stay out of torpor and continue combat for two more rounds. 6) round 2: Baron strikes for 1, opposing minion strikes for whatever, Baron plays Ashes to Ashes to prevent, then undead persistence to continue repeat as necessary for another 3-4 rounds until Baron is refilled and opposing minion is hurting, at which point he can play Torment the Soul possibly to torporize/burn the opposing minion??? 7) End of combat, an untapped Baron plays Rapid Healing to leave torpor... maybe a Freak Drive and a bleed? Not so bad, as weird combos go, but fragile, as is this case with most weird combos. Problems I forsee.... STRIKE: COMBAT ENDS (especially if it's a Catatonic Fear at which point you have a Baron on 0 blood, no way to untap, who has to hunt next round instead of getting into combat like he should). THAUMATURGY/QUIETUS unpreventable damage. Ok, so sure, the undead persist still prevents torpor, but it also sort of thwarts the whole refill-the-baron strategy as well. -Matt

<snip combo with Ashes to Ashes stuff> > THAUMATURGY/QUIETUS unpreventable damage. Ok, so sure, the undead > persist still prevents torpor, but it also sort of thwarts the whole > refill-the-baron strategy as well. some THA strikes (blood rage/fury) or not preventable by "cards requiring fortitude" Does Ashes to Ashes is included in "cards requiring fortitude" if used with the thanatosis effect ? Mochuda

On Thu, 27 Mar 2003 12:58:43 +0100, "Mochuda" <moc...@arfe.netNOSPAM> wrote: >> THAUMATURGY/QUIETUS unpreventable damage. Ok, so sure, the undead >> persist still prevents torpor, but it also sort of thwarts the whole >> refill-the-baron strategy as well. >some THA strikes (blood rage/fury) or not preventable by "cards requiring >fortitude" >Does Ashes to Ashes is included in "cards requiring fortitude" if used with >the thanatosis effect ? No. [ quoted text not captured ]

Mochuda wrote: > Does Ashes to Ashes is included in "cards requiring fortitude" if used with > the thanatosis effect ? No. If a vampire without Fortitude can play it (without resorting to some other ability that allows him to play it as if he had Fortitude), then it does not require Fortitude. See also: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/BLdoc.html -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/