Can't remember what the errata was on this so I have to ask:
Can a tapped vampire (prince) play 2nd Tradition to untap and play a
deflection (or some other reaction card) and NOT block (or attempt to
block) ??
A scenario came up tonight:
1. My predator taps to bleed me
2. I use a Telepathic Misdirection to bounce to my prey
3. My prey plays 2nd Tradition with their tapped Prince
4. My prey attempts to use a Deflection
Is 4. legal? or must the Prince attempt to block using the +2 intercept?
If stealth is added and the +2 intercept is not enough, can the Prince
then play a Deflection?
Woops, one more question:
Wasserchlos (can't remember the exact name or spelling) which is a
location requiring a ready Tremere - it says "move 1 blood from any
Tremere..." Does this mean that during the master phase, a player may
move 1 blood from potentially each and every one of their ready Tremere
onto an inactive vampire?? Or simply that any _one_ vampire (and only
one) can move a blood?
Thanks in advance.
Alex
On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 06:18:55 GMT, Alex Harmon <alexh...@home.com>
wrote:
>Can't remember what the errata was on this so I have to ask:
>
>Can a tapped vampire (prince) play 2nd Tradition to untap and play a
>deflection (or some other reaction card) and NOT block (or attempt to
>block) ??
>
>A scenario came up tonight:
>
>1. My predator taps to bleed me
>2. I use a Telepathic Misdirection to bounce to my prey
>3. My prey plays 2nd Tradition with their tapped Prince
>4. My prey attempts to use a Deflection
>
>Is 4. legal?
No it is not
>or must the Prince attempt to block using the +2 intercept?
Yup, as per Card text.
>If stealth is added and the +2 intercept is not enough, can the Prince
>then play a Deflection?
>
Yes, if the block fails, he is then free to deflect.
>Woops, one more question:
>
>Wasserchlos (can't remember the exact name or spelling) which is a
>location requiring a ready Tremere - it says "move 1 blood from any
>Tremere..." Does this mean that during the master phase, a player may
>move 1 blood from potentially each and every one of their ready Tremere
>onto an inactive vampire?? Or simply that any _one_ vampire (and only
>one) can move a blood?
ONE blood may be transferred with it.
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Alex
Dorian wrote:
> [Must attempt to block when playing 2nd Tradition]
Correct.
> [Wasserschloss Anif, Austria allows you to move only one blood during
> your influence phase, not one from each Tremere]
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
In article <39A3BC31...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
wolf.com> writes
>Dorian wrote:>> [Must attempt to block when playing 2nd Tradition]>
>Correct.
Didn't we establish during the Faceless Night scenario that during the
stealth/intercept sequence, Deflection could be played, hence you
wouldn't be tapped by Faceless Night for failing to block?
Could the same be true here?
e.g.
I wake by playing 2nd Tradition.
Acting Methuselah plays no effects in response.
I play Deflection.
One option would be to declare that since the Acting Methuselah had
played no cards to increase his/her stealth, you would go into combat
immediately. However, that would seem to break rule 1.6.1.5
--
James Coupe | PGP Key 0x5D623D5D | ja...@zephyr.org.uk (New e-mail)
"Who'd have ever predicted the moment would come when I find myself grateful
they've kept women dumb? She's an innocent maiden but then so am I, that's why
it's possible I could get by."
In article <OizwA9AZ...@obeah.demon.co.uk>,
James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote:
> In article <39A3BC31...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
> wolf.com> writes
> >Dorian wrote:
> >> [Must attempt to block when playing 2nd Tradition]
> >
> >Correct.
>
> Didn't we establish during the Faceless Night scenario that during the
> stealth/intercept sequence, Deflection could be played, hence you
> wouldn't be tapped by Faceless Night for failing to block?
No, that was never established.
If you attempt to block the action,
Faceless Night will tap you when
the action completes.
If you never attempt to block, and
simply play Deflection, Deflection
is the only card that may tap you.
> Could the same be true here?
>
> e.g.
> I wake by playing 2nd Tradition.
> Acting Methuselah plays no effects in response.
> I play Deflection.
You are attempting to block when you play the 2nd Tradition. If you
are attempting to block, you must fail to block before you can do
anything else.
Therefore, you may not play Deflection/Redirection/Telepathic
Misdirection, after playing a 2nd Tradition, unless the stealth of the
bleed is at 3 or higher, or if the acting minion plays a superior Elder
Impersonation (causing the reacting minion to be unable to block).
See the New Card Text from 23rd June 1998 Rules Team Rulings:
Second Tradition: Domain, The:
New card text:
"Requires ready Prince or Justicar. +2 intercept. Also usable by a
tapped Prince or Justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to
untap and attempt to block with +2 intercept."
You must attempt to block if you play a 2nd Tradition. Similarly, a
Prince or Justicar may not use 2nd Tradition to untap, if the acting
minion played a Seduction naming the P/J.
Carpe Noctem.
Lasombra
http://members.tripod.com/~Lasombra
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
In article <8o17tr$7ui$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, The Lasombra
<TheLa...@hotmail.com> writes
>You are attempting to block when you play the 2nd Tradition. If you
>are attempting to block, you must fail to block before you can do
>anything else.
You were attempting to block in the Faceless Night situation.
If you had failed to block, you would be tapped - but you could play
Deflection before that happened.
In the Faceless Night situation, you did not have to fail to block.
LSJ seemed to make it clear that Deflection could be played during the
stealth/intercept time then. If it was played afterwards, you would be
tapped by Faceless Night. I wonder why it cannot be played in the same
timing slot here.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Wed, 23 Aug 2000 20:41:50 +0100, James Coupe <ve...@zephyr.org.uk>
wrote:
>In article <8o17tr$7ui$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, The Lasombra
><TheLa...@hotmail.com> writes>>You are attempting to block when you play the 2nd Tradition. If you
>>are attempting to block, you must fail to block before you can do
>>anything else.>
>You were attempting to block in the Faceless Night situation.
>
>If you had failed to block, you would be tapped - but you could play
>Deflection before that happened.
>
>In the Faceless Night situation, you did not have to fail to block.
>
>LSJ seemed to make it clear that Deflection could be played during the
>stealth/intercept time then. If it was played afterwards, you would be
>tapped by Faceless Night. I wonder why it cannot be played in the same
>timing slot here.
Because the same timing slot that gives intercept, attempts to block,
once that action is complete (untapping, gaining intercept, and
attempting to block) if you still are untapped, and did not block, you
may then play deflection.
James Coupe wrote:
>
> In article <39A3BC31...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
> wolf.com> writes
> >Dorian wrote:
> >> [Must attempt to block when playing 2nd Tradition]
> >
> >Correct.
>
> Didn't we establish during the Faceless Night scenario that during the
> stealth/intercept sequence, Deflection could be played, hence you
> wouldn't be tapped by Faceless Night for failing to block?
>> Could the same be true here?
>
> e.g.
> I wake by playing 2nd Tradition.
> Acting Methuselah plays no effects in response.
> I play Deflection.
>> One option would be to declare that since the Acting Methuselah had
> played no cards to increase his/her stealth, you would go into combat
> immediately. However, that would seem to break rule 1.6.1.5
No. If the block succeeds, you cannot play deflection.
For instance, you cannot attempt to block a bleed in the hopes
that the acting minion will increase his stealth before you
deflect and then deflect even if he doesn't increase the bleed.
The only reaction cards you can play at that point (successfully
blocking an action) are cards like Obedience.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe wrote:
> The Lasombra <TheLa...@hotmail.com> writes
> >You are attempting to block when you play the 2nd Tradition. If you
> >are attempting to block, you must fail to block before you can do
> >anything else.
>
> You were attempting to block in the Faceless Night situation.
>
> If you had failed to block, you would be tapped - but you could play
> Deflection before that happened.
Right. If the Faceless Night minion has more stealth than the would-be
blocker, the blocker hasn't yet failed to block - he gets the opportunity
to, for example, generate more intercept before becoming tapped.
So the sequence there is:
A: V1 bleeds B
A: <no futher modifiers>
B: V2 attempts to block
A: V1 plays superior Faceless Night
A: <no further modifiers>
At this point, the block is not succeeding, so the blocking minion/Meth
can do several things:
1. Nothing. Allow the bleed through. B is tapped.
2. Something. Increase Intercept or play Deflection, for example.
> In the Faceless Night situation, you did not have to fail to block.
>
> LSJ seemed to make it clear that Deflection could be played during the
> stealth/intercept time then. If it was played afterwards, you would be
> tapped by Faceless Night. I wonder why it cannot be played in the same
> timing slot here.
Deflection is not playable when the block is succeeding - by the time
the blocking Methuselah gets the opportunity to play it, she's already
facing combat:
A: V1 bleeds B
A: <no futher modifiers>
B: V2 attempts to block (possibly by playing 2nd Tradition, for instance)
A: Block succeeds
A: <no further modifiers>
B cannot attempt to deflect at this time.
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Right. If the Faceless Night minion has more stealth than the would-be
> blocker, the blocker hasn't yet failed to block - he gets the
opportunity
> to, for example, generate more intercept before becoming tapped.
>
> So the sequence there is:
>
> A: V1 bleeds B
> A: <no futher modifiers>
> B: V2 attempts to block
> A: V1 plays superior Faceless Night
> A: <no further modifiers>
>
> At this point, the block is not succeeding, so the blocking
minion/Meth
> can do several things:
>
> 1. Nothing. Allow the bleed through. B is tapped.
> 2. Something. Increase Intercept or play Deflection, for example.
In addressing number 2 above, how does a tapped minion play a reaction
card without a WWEF or FA? I musted have missed this whole train of
logic.
Logic Welcome,
Norman S. Brown Jr.
X_Zealot
Archon of the Swamp
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <8o1kfd$n6a$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
[ quoted text not captured ]
The tapping from Faceless Night only takes effect if the action that FN
gives stealth to, succeeds. At this point that action hasn't succeeded
since a blocking minion always gets the opportunity to play more
intercept when the action minion played stealth. So if he has the
opportunity to play intercept (which is a reaction card) then obviously
the tapping effect of FN hasn't taken place yet, which also means that
you could play a Deflection instead of intercept.
[ quoted text not captured ]
X_Ze...@email.msn.com wrote:
> > So the sequence there is:
> >
> > A: V1 bleeds B
> > A: <no futher modifiers>
> > B: V2 attempts to block
> > A: V1 plays superior Faceless Night
> > A: <no further modifiers>
> >
> > At this point, the block is not succeeding, so the blocking
> minion/Meth
> > can do several things:
> >
> > 1. Nothing. Allow the bleed through. B is tapped.
> > 2. Something. Increase Intercept or play Deflection, for example.
>
> In addressing number 2 above, how does a tapped minion play a reaction
> card without a WWEF or FA? I musted have missed this whole train of
> logic.
He is not tapped (or has played a Wake) - otherwise he wouldn't
be able to attempt to block in the first place.
1 and 2 are his options - they are mutually exclusive by inspection.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <39A42BB4...@white-wolf.com>,
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> For instance, you cannot attempt to block a bleed in the hopes
> that the acting minion will increase his stealth before you
> deflect and then deflect even if he doesn't increase the bleed.
you mean increase the stealth on the bleed, right?
_*__salem
_*__http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Stage/5848/
***__salem_...@my-dejanews.com
_*__and the rains came hammering down
[ quoted text not captured ]
In article <39A42BB4...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
wolf.com> writes
>For instance, you cannot attempt to block a bleed in the hopes
>that the acting minion will increase his stealth before you
>deflect and then deflect even if he doesn't increase the bleed.
That is a slightly different situation, in that no card has been played,
so there is no sequencing unless the actor plays a card.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe wrote:
>
> In article <39A42BB4...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vtesrep@white-
> wolf.com> writes
> >For instance, you cannot attempt to block a bleed in the hopes
> >that the acting minion will increase his stealth before you
> >deflect and then deflect even if he doesn't increase the bleed.
>
> That is a slightly different situation, in that no card has been played,
> so there is no sequencing unless the actor plays a card.
Sequencing exists for events (including card play). See the event
breakdown elsewhere in this thread.
By your logic, the defender could not play a deflection card if the acting
vampire took a default (cardless) bleed and chose to play no modifiers.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
[ quoted text not captured ]