Casino Reeds Q (LSJ?)

Casino Reeds Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Nosferatu Capacity: 9 Discipline: cel dem ANI OBF POT Camarilla Prince of Seattle: Casino may move up to 3 blood from himself to a younger Nosferatu in your uncontrolled region as an action. Casino inflicts +1 damage with ranged strikes (even at close range). Does Casino's +damage ability apply to non-carded strikes (eg weapon strikes like .44 Magnum or Flamethrower) as well as carded ones? I can see no reason it wouldn't, but wanted to check. thanks, Josh (if so, it's a rather stronger ability than Joaquin Murrieta's...)

Joshua Duffin wrote: > "Casino inflicts +1 damage with ranged strikes (even at close range)." > > Does Casino's +damage ability apply to non-carded strikes (eg > weapon strikes like .44 Magnum or Flamethrower) as well as > carded ones? I can see no reason it wouldn't, but wanted to > check. It applies to any ranged strike, yes. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

[ quoted text not captured ] mmm Murietta has a free additional strike in case you didn't notice ;)

"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3d663830$0$29981$79c1...@nan-newsreader-03.noos.net... > Joshua Duffin wrote: > > Casino Reeds > > (if so, it's a rather stronger ability than Joaquin Murrieta's...) > > mmm Murietta has a free additional strike in case you didn't notice ;) Yes, *that* part of Murietta's ability is pretty strong. :-) But the +damage for guns part is *way* less good than Casino's +damage ability. And it seems odd that Casino gets charged a lot less points for his abilities than Joaquin does: Casino: 9 capacity Nosferatu 8 points of disciplines Prince title (1 pt) +damage ability (1 pt?) blood-moving ability (1 pt?) Joaquin: 9 capacity Toreador 7 points of disciplines (and only 2 superiors) no title (0 pts) additional strike ability (1 pt - Jacko seems to have paid 1 pt for his version of this under the Sabbat costing scheme, and Jacko's even stacks with other add'l strike effects) +damage ability (should be 0.5 pts at most if Casino's is 1 pt - much more limited) That is, Joaquin "should" also have 11 pts of stuff (under the current vampire-costing scheme), but instead has 8.5 or 9 at most (if you count both abilities as 1 pt each). Seems to me like he should really have about two more points of disciplines (increasing his superior count to 4, maybe?). Then again, Melisande would have to have been charged 2 pts for her optional additional strike if she was also designed under the current costing scheme (11 pts for 9-cap vampires, that is). That really doesn't make sense to me, though, since the most widely usable strong abilities have been costed at only 1 point each (+1 bleed, +1 strength, +1 intercept, +1 stealth) ever since Dark Sovereigns, or Sabbat at the latest. (Rebekka, Muaziz, Jost Werner, Kite, etc etc.) An optional additional strike just doesn't seem plausibly better than one of those abilities to me. Josh the art (not science apparently) of vampire design

Joshua Duffin wrote: > That really doesn't make sense to me, though, since the most widely > usable strong abilities have been costed at only 1 point each (+1 > bleed, +1 strength, +1 intercept, +1 stealth) ever since Dark Typically (current RT): +1 intercept is 1 point. +1 strength or bleed is 1.5 points. +1 stealth is 2 points. > Sovereigns, or Sabbat at the latest. (Rebekka, Muaziz, Jost Werner, > Kite, etc etc.) An optional additional strike just doesn't seem > plausibly better than one of those abilities to me. > > Josh > > the art (not science apparently) of vampire design The formula is *a* metric by which vampires can be measured. It is not the alpha and the omega of vampire design, however. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:3D663E26...@white-wolf.com... > Joshua Duffin wrote: > > That really doesn't make sense to me, though, since the most widely > > usable strong abilities have been costed at only 1 point each (+1 > > bleed, +1 strength, +1 intercept, +1 stealth) ever since Dark > > Typically (current RT): > > +1 intercept is 1 point. > +1 strength or bleed is 1.5 points. > +1 stealth is 2 points. Seems reasonable given that stealth is usually more "winning" than intercept. Still, Jost Werner sure didn't pay 2 points for his +1 stealth, although Lucretia paid at least 2. :-) > The formula is *a* metric by which vampires can be measured. It > is not the alpha and the omega of vampire design, however. Clearly. Nor do I mean to dispute that vampire design *is* as much art as science - a vampire with OBF FOR NEC and an optional additional strike each combat would have a lot less use for that additional strike than one with POT PRO VIC. I have been surprised, though, to see how many vampires in CE *do* seem somewhat inconsistent (typically looking underpowered next to their more-interesting counterparts) in their "points". Joaquin Murrieta is certainly an example; sure, CEL and an optional additional make his combat-oriented abilities pretty good. But Casino Reeds has POT cel as well, and his +damage ability is a lot more general than Joaquin's, and he's a Prince *and* has more points of disciplines. It just seems inexplicable from what I can see - it'd make more sense if Joaquin had some out of clan (or another in-clan) superiors, for example. It's also struck me that the old justicars seemed more likely to be the members of their clan with really great abilities than the new ones are - eg Anneke with the "block any vampire" vs Madame Guil (justicar, if I'm remembering the name right) with just +1 bleed (which Anneke also has) vs Helena *untitled) with the "may burn a blood to be able to block and play Auspex reaction cards as if untapped" ability. Which is probably not a bad thing at all, since it makes the non-prince/justicar vamps more relatively worthwhile - it's just different. I think. Josh struck upside the head... and sad that there aren't complete spoiler texts online yet since all my copies of the new vamps are at home...

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Seems reasonable given that stealth is usually more "winning" than > intercept. Still, Jost Werner sure didn't pay 2 points for his > +1 stealth, although Lucretia paid at least 2. :-) Could be. The current DT had no hand in either of those. [ quoted text not captured ]

>The formula is *a* metric by which vampires can be measured. It >is not the alpha and the omega of vampire design, however. LOL. Alpha and Omega? That is *so* cute LSJ! =) Halcyan 2

>Seems reasonable given that stealth is usually more "winning" than >intercept. Still, Jost Werner sure didn't pay 2 points for his >+1 stealth, although Lucretia paid at least 2. :-) A while back, I recall someone (possibly with Sabbat design insider info) mentioning how it was thought that lacking a clan discipline (Celerity) was considered a weakness and factored into Jost's design. >Clearly. Nor do I mean to dispute that vampire design *is* as much >art as science - a vampire with OBF FOR NEC and an optional additional >strike each combat would have a lot less use for that additional >strike than one with POT PRO VIC. Yep. Which is why, a while back, I was complaining about how Zoe's disadvantage isn't that bad since she has Obfuscate to make up for it. And why Jaroslav's intercept is such a big deal. >I have been surprised, though, to see how many vampires in CE *do* >seem somewhat inconsistent (typically looking underpowered next >to their more-interesting counterparts) in their "points". Agreed. Compare Ira vs. Quentin. Quentin definitely got hosed over in points. Both are 7-cap Princes. Both have two in-clan superiors, one in-clan inferior, and an out-of-clan inferior. For Quentin that's it, but Ira gets his political action intercept *and* his Auspex drawing thing. >It's also struck me that the old justicars seemed more likely to >be the members of their clan with really great abilities than the >new ones are - eg Anneke with the "block any vampire" vs Madame >Guil (justicar, if I'm remembering the name right) with just +1 >bleed (which Anneke also has) vs Helena *untitled) with the "may >burn a blood to be able to block and play Auspex reaction cards >as if untapped" ability. Which is probably not a bad thing at >all, since it makes the non-prince/justicar vamps more relatively >worthwhile - it's just different. I think. Jaroslav, Cock Robin, and Maris Streck seem to be the new *power* justicars (compared to the old Anneke and Sheldon). Lucinde and Madame Guil are a lot more vanilla. They're not god-awful-bad like the last group, but probably fit more into mediocre justicars (a la Ulugh, Don Cruez, and Lucian). There fortunately aren't any REAL bad justicars this time like Democritus and Angus (I paid how much and I still only have inferior Fortitude?). I'm still exactly not sure where Anastasz fits in. I know Xian is ecstatic about an 8-cap Justicar but... Halcyan 2

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Joaquin Murrieta is certainly an example; sure, CEL and an optional > additional make his combat-oriented abilities pretty good. But > Casino Reeds has POT cel as well, and his +damage ability is a > lot more general than Joaquin's, and he's a Prince *and* has more > points of disciplines. It just seems inexplicable from what I can > see - it'd make more sense if Joaquin had some out of clan (or > another in-clan) superiors, for example. what i can just add is : when a vampire with superior celerity gets a gun, i can't ever imagine better specials than murietta's.

"> It's also struck me that the old justicars seemed more likely to > be the members of their clan with really great abilities than the > new ones are - eg Anneke with the "block any vampire" vs Madame > Guil (justicar, if I'm remembering the name right) with just +1 > bleed (which Anneke also has) vs Helena *untitled) with the "may > burn a blood to be able to block and play Auspex reaction cards > as if untapped" ability. Which is probably not a bad thing at > all, since it makes the non-prince/justicar vamps more relatively > worthwhile - it's just different. I think. I would think that the new Justicars have a little plus/ minus battle going on. In comparison some are better, some are a little powerd down. It appears they have attempted to beef up 3 clans while down grading (imho) the other three. My take is this Ventrue + Lucinde Alastor cap 10 For Dom Pre pot obf tham Lucinde may enter combat with a ready non Camirillia vampire controlled by another methusula as a (D) action. During your untap phase you may burn the edge to give Lucinde 1 blood from the blood bank. (in the books the described Lucinde as a vamp that pulled strings and very rarely got her hands dirty , if memory serves, wonder how this translates to card text?) Democritus Clan: Ventrue Capacity: 10 Ability: If Democritus is ready, any Methuselah contesting a card with you burns 1 extra pool to avoid yielding that card. +1 bleed. Inferior Auspex Inferior Celerity Superior Dominate Inferior Fortitude Superior Presence Lucinde wins this one pretty easy as she has all three inclans at superior. Her minor in obf will mesh her really nicely with Queen Ann, Marcus Vital and (the Queen of Sleeze) Arika. Malk + Maris Streck cap 9 Obf Aus dom dem ani Malkavian Justicar Maris may burn one blood to give a blocking minion +1 intercept.She can take a +1 stealth action to allow you to look at and rearange the next five cards in your library Capacity: 10 Ability: Lucian may steal equipment as a strike. Superior Auspex Inferior Celerity Superior Dominate Superior Obfuscate Inferior Thaumaturgy Hands down Maris kicks old Lucian's ass. Her specials ar absolutly insane!! Perhaps a little two strong? Can't wait to get ahold of her. The down side is that she does not have all three in clans at sup (this is somthing that always botherd me about Democritus), I guess I will need to learn to deal with this. Brujah = The Don Capacity: 10 Camarilla - Justicar Ability: Once each combat, Don Cruez may burn 1 blood to get one maneuver Inferior Animalism Superior Celerity Inferior Dominate Superior Potence Superior Presence Inferior Protean Jaroslav Clan: Brujah Capacity: 10 Ability: Jaroslav inflicts +2 damage with melee weapons. He can inflict 1 damage on each of your prey's Sabbat vampires as a (D) action. +1 intercept Superior Celerity Inferior Fortitude Inferior Obfuscate Superior Potence Superior Presence This ones a little hard to call, as the Don's abillity is simple but so very key for as Bruja deck. Jaroslave is Very sweet because the new abillity has three new and very cool powers built into one. For now, I will call it with the Don because his abillity spread is a little more relevent (considering the number of his followers that come with built in dom) this will probably change when I get around to building a Jaroslav gets Meat Hook deck. Nos + Clan: Nosferatu Sheldon Capacity: 9 Camarilla - Justicar Superior Animalism Superior Auspex Inferior Fortitude Superior Obfuscate Superior Potence Cock Robin Clan: Nosferatu Capacity: 10 Camarilla - Justicar Ability: Once per turn, when Cock Robin successfully perfoms an action that requires Animalism, he untaps at the end of the action. +1 strength. Superior Animalism Inferior Auspex Inferior Fortitude Superior Obfuscate Superior Potence Cock Robin wins bye style points alone (you gotta be pretty hard core to go by the name Cock Robin)and by strength of his special. For the loss of one point of aus (not a real hudge loss with the recent additional intercept allowed to ani and special report ect...) Robin is an easy replacement for old Sheldon (sorry old boy, don't let the door hit you on the way out)one of my former favorite vamps. Anastascdi Zagreb Tremere - Clan: Tremere Capacity: 8 Ability: If there are any other justicars ready, Anastaszdi gets 1 fewer vote from his justicar title. Anastaszdi may steal 1 blood as a ranged strike. Inferior Animalism Superior Auspex Inferior Celerity Inferior Dominate Superior Thaumaturgy Ulubh Begg, the watcher Clan: Tremere Capacity: 10 Ability: If Ulugh is ready during your discard phase, you may discard one additional card. Superior Auspex Inferior Celerity Superior Dominate Inferior Fortitude Inferior Potence Superior Thaumaturgy I would be a lot more partial to Anistazidi if he were to have sup Dom, but unfortunatly he lacks in this dept and will probubly see little use in my play group. More likely to stay with group one in this case as Ulugh is far superior (and has a far more ridiculas name) Toridor - Madam Guil Clan: Toreador Capacity: 10 Ability: +1 bleed Superior Auspex Superior Celerity Inferior Fortitude Inferior Potence Superior Presence Inferior Serpentis Anneke Clan: Toreador Capacity: 10 Ability: Anneke may attempt to block a vampire controlled by another Methuselah after others have declined or failed to block. +1 bleed. Superior Auspex Superior Celerity Inferior Dominate Superior Presence No real contest here, Anneke really is far and away better. Her special abillity is one of the best in the game, I new she would be a little hard to top (glad they didn't try). Even though she may not have as many skills, they are far more relevent. I guess in creation they attempted to hold s balance between type one and type three vamps. This is of course conjecture. I assume yhat the wanted people to still want to use the old school vamps a little as well.

"Halcyan 2" <halc...@aol.com> wrote in message news:20020823232733...@mb-fy.aol.com... > There fortunately aren't any REAL bad justicars this time like Democritus and > Angus (I paid how much and I still only have inferior Fortitude?). > > I'm still exactly not sure where Anastasz fits in. I know Xian is ecstatic > about an 8-cap Justicar but... How can you *not* like him? He kicks total butt. 2 turns. Add a DOM master, and away we go! :) Xian