Within the Story line events, the vampires already labeled with infernal,
get an additional infernal penalty.
This infers that any minion could be multiply infernal with barbaro's
special.
Is it true that he can make an minion infernal more than once?
Is it true outside of SL games, that a multiply infernal minion must pay
additional pool to untap?
Raille
Raille <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Within the Story line events, the vampires already labeled with infernal,
> get an additional infernal penalty.> This infers that any minion could be multiply infernal with barbaro's
> special.
No.
Within the Storyline events, you pay an additional pool not to tap the
vampires already labeled as Infernal and playing for the Infernal team
(remember if you're incidentally playing with some Baali or Midget in your
non-infernal team, you still only pay 1 per infernal minion).
It doesn't make them "Infernal again".
It just makes their flavor of Infernal more painful.
Jozxyqk wrote:
> Raille <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:>>Within the Story line events, the vampires already labeled with infernal,
>>get an additional infernal penalty.>>>This [implies] that any minion could be multiply infernal with barbaro's
>>special.>
> No.
Correct.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:tTHnd.941294$Gx4.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Jozxyqk wrote:>> Raille <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote:>>>Within the Story line events, the vampires already labeled with infernal,
>>>get an additional infernal penalty.>>>>>This [implies] that any minion could be multiply infernal with barbaro's
>>>special.>>
>> No.>
> Correct.
>
Oh well, I suppose its not going to make much difference, I don't expect to
see people ever taint minions in the future, or maybe not even in the
storyline games.
Although I did manage to use him to taint Jake Washington, don't ask me why,
but it seems like the thing to do.
Raille
Looking at this from card text.
Independent: Barbaro may place a taint counter on a minion as a +1 stealth
(D) action. If a minion has 2 taint counters, burn those counters to make
the minion infernal. Barbaro may change his clan to Tremere antitribu as a
+1 stealth action. Infernal.
Since there is nothing there stating he cannot taint an infernal minion, its
obvious that multiple infernal desinations could be placed on a single
minion.
Since the Storyline indicates:
If the vampire's card text already identifies him as infernal, the infernal
pool penalty is increased by one pool (the controller must burn 2 pool or
tap that vampire).
It just seems that logic indicates that any minion allready infernal, that
is further sucked into the deamonic arts, pays a more rich price to
participate in the Masquarade.
If the SL text simply Said a double infernal pays 2 pool the logic would
fail. The text states the penalty is increased, and does not indicate that
it could not be further increased.
So, if all the above is incorrect and in normal play tainting minions to
make them infernal 2 or more times does not increase the cost of being
infernal, then offical errata and clarification should be make to the card
text of Barbaro, or the rules them selves to state a minion never pays more
than 1 pool per infernal minion.
That change would still allow duplicate infernalisms, but have negligable
game effect, unless we get a card that can remove being infernal at some
point in the future.
Raille
Raille wrote:
> Looking at this from card text.
>
> Independent: Barbaro may place a taint counter on a minion as a +1 stealth
> (D) action. If a minion has 2 taint counters, burn those counters to make
> the minion infernal. Barbaro may change his clan to Tremere antitribu as a
> +1 stealth action. Infernal.
>
> Since there is nothing there stating he cannot taint an infernal minion, its
> obvious that multiple infernal desinations could be placed on a single
> minion.
Similarly, you can make a Tremere a Tremere with Clan Impersonation.
Infernal is a state - you are or you aren't. Like "ally", "vampire",
"animal", "gun", "cold iron", "Tremere", "sterile", "tapped", "ready",
etc.
> So, if all the above is incorrect and in normal play tainting minions to
> make them infernal 2 or more times does not increase the cost of being
> infernal, then offical errata and clarification should be make to the card
> text of Barbaro, or the rules them selves to state a minion never pays more
> than 1 pool per infernal minion.
No. The rules already state how to handle infernal minions.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message
news:w72od.44169$7i4....@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Raille wrote:
>>> Looking at this from card text.
>>
>> Independent: Barbaro may place a taint counter on a minion as a +1
>> stealth
>> (D) action. If a minion has 2 taint counters, burn those counters to make
>> the minion infernal. Barbaro may change his clan to Tremere antitribu as
>> a
>> +1 stealth action. Infernal.
>>
>> Since there is nothing there stating he cannot taint an infernal minion,
>> its
>> obvious that multiple infernal desinations could be placed on a single
>> minion.>
> Similarly, you can make a Tremere a Tremere with Clan Impersonation.
> Infernal is a state - you are or you aren't. Like "ally", "vampire",
> "animal", "gun", "cold iron", "Tremere", "sterile", "tapped", "ready",
> etc.
>>> So, if all the above is incorrect and in normal play tainting minions to
>> make them infernal 2 or more times does not increase the cost of being
>> infernal, then offical errata and clarification should be make to the
>> card
>> text of Barbaro, or the rules them selves to state a minion never pays
>> more
>> than 1 pool per infernal minion.>
> No. The rules already state how to handle infernal minions.
>
Agreed, it just seems as if the Inf Plg SL trumped that.
However, multiple variations of clan changes do layer. I had problems with
Vampire A clan impersonation, Get deranged and then clan impersonate to yet
another clan. Vampire A now has 3 cards on him. As such I think any minion
should be allowed to be infernal more than one time, even if the penalty
does not change. It may have implications with future card release's.
Although I do admit that having a double penalty would be worth trying to
use barabro with extra untaps to taint as many people as possible. But
thats really not as important as wether or not a minion can be tagged more
than once, assuming that there might be a future infernal remover card.
That said. The question is: Can you place more than one infernal label on
a vampire? If not, why?
Raille
Raille wrote:
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message>>No. The rules already state how to handle infernal minions.
>>> Agreed, it just seems as if the Inf Plg SL trumped that.
Yes. Other storyline events have had rules that overrode the basic rules
(75% clan crypt, etc.), as well.
> However, multiple variations of clan changes do layer.
Yes. All temporary effects layer.
> I had problems with
> Vampire A clan impersonation, Get deranged and then clan impersonate to yet
> another clan. Vampire A now has 3 cards on him. As such I think any minion
> should be allowed to be infernal more than one time, even if the penalty
> does not change. It may have implications with future card release's.
Sounds likely for any temporary infernality effects, given the
current precedent.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<1101095071.H5yJXKptpQSgcSN2VQuSUg@teranews>...
> Agreed, it just seems as if the Inf Plg SL trumped that.
>
> However, multiple variations of clan changes do layer. I had problems with
> Vampire A clan impersonation, Get deranged and then clan impersonate to yet
> another clan. Vampire A now has 3 cards on him. As such I think any minion
> should be allowed to be infernal more than one time, even if the penalty
> does not change. It may have implications with future card release's.
>
> Although I do admit that having a double penalty would be worth trying to
> use barabro with extra untaps to taint as many people as possible. But
> thats really not as important as wether or not a minion can be tagged more
> than once, assuming that there might be a future infernal remover card.
>
>
> That said. The question is: Can you place more than one infernal label on
> a vampire? If not, why?
>
> Raille
My first post here, and while I'm certainly no VTES guru (yet), I
think I can offer some insight to this.
Firstly, as LSJ mentioned before, being Infernal is a state, you
either are Infernal, or you aren't.
Cards like Clan Impersonation and Derange are placed on the vampire
because there are ways to remove the effect. If the card is removed,
the vampire 'reverts' back to their previous clan, whether it be their
oringal clan, or from another, previous card. In your example, your
minion could remove the Clan Impersonation to revert back to
Malk/!Malk from the Derange.
Compare this to cards like Into the Fire or Out of the Frying Pan,
which change your base Sect, but the card is not placed on your
vampire. Once you cross over, there's no going back (except by playing
another card). Similarly, Barbaro's ability can make vampires Infernal
with no way to 'go back'. Also by his own text, Barbaro can become
!Tremere with no way to revert back Baali.
You can go Infernal as many times as you like (provided you had
appropriate text on the card, and the appropriate card, for that
matter), but you can only actually be Infernal, not Infernalx2 or
Infernalx3. I would imagine that in the future there will be a card
(or cards) similar to Derange that can make other minions infernal,
but that can be removed. Right now it's just Barbaro, and his effect
is permanent.
Chris, aka Martin, Elder of Clan Tremere
In message <63b1ad18.04112...@posting.google.com>,
martin_...@yahoo.co.uk (MartinTremere) mumbled something about:
>"Raille" <rai...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:<1101095071.H5yJXKptpQSgcSN2VQuSUg@teranews>...>>>> That said. The question is: Can you place more than one infernal label on
>> a vampire? If not, why?
>>>My first post here, and while I'm certainly no VTES guru (yet), I
>think I can offer some insight to this.
>
>Firstly, as LSJ mentioned before, being Infernal is a state, you
>either are Infernal, or you aren't.
o/` Is you is, or is you ain't Infernal... o/`
-- Derek
a host is a host from coast to coast
and no one will talk to a host that's close
unless the host that isn't close
is busy, hung, or dead