Dawn Operation vs. Rotschreck

Okay, so what happens in the following situation: Vamp A plays Dawn Operation and Superior Drawing out the Beast. Combat is at close range. Vamp A dodges. Vamps B plays Claws of the Dead and strikes with them. The methuselah controlling Vamp B plays Rotschreck. It is clear that Vamp A is torporized, but what about Vamp B, since Rotschreck says: Combat ends before damage is resolved. Does that mean that the damage from DotB is not dealt, therefore Vamp B is not sent to torpor? -- Tuomas Rinta työ: +358-9-70844393 gsm: +358-40-5838021 tuomas...@helsinki.fi \ tuomas...@pp.inet.fi

[ quoted text not captured ] It would seem to me that the methuselah controlling vamp B cannot play rötschreck, since vamp A doesn't attempt to use aggravated damage. The damage from drawing out the beast isn't 'strike-damage', so it's environmental. Result: vamp B goes to torpor if he/she doesn't prevent the damage from drawing out the beast, vamp A remains unharmed. Rötschreck cannot be played here. Carpe noctem, JW.

Tuomas Rinta wrote: > > Okay, so what happens in the following situation: > Vamp A plays Dawn Operation and Superior Drawing out the Beast. > Combat is at close range. > Vamp A dodges. > Vamps B plays Claws of the Dead and strikes with them. > The methuselah controlling Vamp B plays Rotschreck. > > It is clear that Vamp A is torporized, but what about Vamp B, since > Rotschreck says: Combat ends before damage is resolved. Does that mean > that the damage from DotB is not dealt, therefore Vamp B is not sent to > torpor? No. Rotschreck is referring to damage from the source in question. DotB's damage occurs at the end of the round, whenever the rounds ends and for whatever reason. Rotschreck ends the round before the damage from whatever source allowed Rotschreck to be played can resolve, but, since the round is ending, the DotB deals its damage. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) V:TES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/rules.asp

Jan Willem Wijsman wrote: > Tuomas Rinta wrote: > > Okay, so what happens in the following situation: > > Vamp A plays Dawn Operation and Superior Drawing out the Beast. > > Combat is at close range. > > Vamp A dodges. > > Vamps B plays Claws of the Dead and strikes with them. > > The methuselah controlling Vamp B plays Rotschreck. > [snip] > It would seem to me that the methuselah controlling vamp B cannot play > rötschreck, since vamp A doesn't attempt to use aggravated damage. The > damage from drawing out the beast isn't 'strike-damage', so it's > environmental. Result: vamp B goes to torpor if he/she doesn't prevent > the damage from drawing out the beast, vamp A remains unharmed. > Rötschreck cannot be played here. The Meth controlling B can play Rotschreck on vamp A, since the minion opposing vamp A (vamp B) is attempting to use aggravated damage (Claws of the Dead hand strike under a Dawn Operation) against vamp A. [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Wait a sec, I thought rötschreck was played on a vampire who attempts to use aggravated damage. The way you put it here is the other way round : vamp b tries aggravated damage so vamp a gets the rötschreck (huh?). I'm sorry if I missed something, could you explain LSJ? On the other hand, is it possible to play rötschreck on a vampire of your own, i.e. let your vampire use aggravated damage to achieve this?

> Wait a sec, I thought rötschreck was played on a vampire who attempts to > use aggravated damage. The way you put it here is the other way round : > vamp b tries aggravated damage so vamp a gets the rötschreck (huh?). > I'm sorry if I missed something, could you explain LSJ? > On the other hand, is it possible to play rötschreck on a vampire of > your own, i.e. let your vampire use aggravated damage to achieve this? The way that rotschreck works, is that the methuselah controlling the vampire that is attempting to cause agg. damage can play rotschreck, not vica-versa. For example: Vamp A dodges Vamp B plays Claws of the Dead and strikes with them The methuselah controlling Vamp B can play Rotschreck now. Vamp A is torporized. And they all lived happily ever after... Correct, eh? [ quoted text not captured ]

Jan Willem Wijsman wrote: > LSJ wrote: > > The Meth controlling B can play Rotschreck on vamp A, since the > > minion opposing vamp A (vamp B) is attempting to use aggravated > > damage (Claws of the Dead hand strike under a Dawn Operation) > > against vamp A. > Wait a sec, I thought rötschreck was played on a vampire who attempts to > use aggravated damage. The way you put it here is the other way round : > vamp b tries aggravated damage so vamp a gets the rötschreck (huh?). > I'm sorry if I missed something, could you explain LSJ? Rotschreck is played on the vampire against whom a minion attempts to use aggravated damage. Just like the card says. The old errata that switched the role of Rotschreck was overturned on 23-JUN-1998. > On the other hand, is it possible to play rötschreck on a vampire of > your own, i.e. let your vampire use aggravated damage to achieve this? Rotschreck can be played by any Methuselah (except the acting Methuselah, since it is a Master: Out-of-turn card). The Methuselah playing it can chose to play it on her own vampire, if she wishes. The only restriction is that it be played on a vampire whose opponent is attempting to use aggravated damage against him. [ quoted text not captured ]