Malkavian Time Auction (and Form of Corruption)

I just played a Form of Corruption (FOC) / Succubus Club (SC) / Malkavian Time Auction (MTA) deck. It performed well, but I have a couple of questions aout the cards / rules. General questions: 1) Can you bid on your own MTA? Nothing in the card text prevents this. Monger is what I usually use, and it doesn't have any rulings about it. Poking thru the forum, I found: Malkavian Time Auction - Master (Mal): The Methuselah playing the Time Auction cannot bid (errata). [RTR] ...that was from 1997, and a migration from 2000 repeats this... I didn't find any newer info. Is that ruling still valid? I hope so. 2) FOC uses the word "you" a lot. I assume, this *always* refers to the current controller of the card, rather than the player who brought it into play? Specific questions 1) I have 2 ready vampires: A - zero blood, Fame, Pulled Fangs B - 5 blood Now, if the forced hunt/ fame was going to oust me, could I play MTA on the Pulled Fangs, and hope that someone would save me by bidding for it? If so, would the auction winner place it any vamp they controlled? +++ 2) My prey plays Army of Rats. In my untap phase, I buy it off him with Succubus Club. Can I make my prey lose 1 pool immediately from the rats? I think so. 3) I use SC to buy an untapped Bali. Do I immediately have to pay it's infernal cost? Since I can order the untap phase however I want, can I dsay that the paying-for-Bali section of my untap phase happened before the trading-with-succubus-club section of my untap phase? 4) As above, but if I used SC to buy a Famous and torpored vampire (for whatever reason)

Hollowboy wrote: > I just played a Form of Corruption (FOC) / Succubus Club (SC) / > Malkavian Time Auction (MTA) deck. > > It performed well, but I have a couple of questions aout the cards / > rules. > > General questions: > > 1) Can you bid on your own MTA? Nothing in the card text prevents > this. Monger is what I usually use, and it doesn't have any rulings > about it. Card text online: Choose a card you control. Starting to your left and proceeding clockwise, other Methuselahs may bid pool for control of that card. Highest bidder takes control of the card. You collect pool from the two highest bidders. (from http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/CardList.html) The official rulings and migrations are at: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html > > Poking thru the forum, I found: > > Malkavian Time Auction - Master (Mal): > The Methuselah playing the Time Auction cannot bid (errata). [RTR] > > ....that was from 1997, and a migration from 2000 repeats this... I > didn't find any newer info. Is that ruling still valid? I hope so. > > 2) FOC uses the word "you" a lot. I assume, this *always* refers to > the current controller of the card, rather than the player who brought > it into play? Correct. > Specific questions > > 1) > > I have 2 ready vampires: > > A - zero blood, Fame, Pulled Fangs > B - 5 blood > > Now, if the forced hunt/ fame was going to oust me, could I play MTA > on the Pulled Fangs, and hope that someone would save me by bidding > for it? No. Even if control of the PF changed, you'd still control the empty vampire who cannot hunt and would go to torpor when he hunts. > > If so, would the auction winner place it any vamp they controlled? No. Changing control of PF doesn't enable either Methuselah to move it. > +++ > > 2) > > My prey plays Army of Rats. In my untap phase, I buy it off him with > Succubus Club. Can I make my prey lose 1 pool immediately from the > rats? I think so. Yes. > > 3) > > I use SC to buy an untapped Bali. Do I immediately have to pay it's > infernal cost? Since I can order the untap phase however I want, can I > dsay that the paying-for-Bali section of my untap phase happened > before the trading-with-succubus-club section of my untap phase? No. You now have an infernal minion that you haven't handled, so handle it (either tap it or pay a pool). > > 4) > > As above, but if I used SC to buy a Famous and torpored vampire (for > whatever reason) You can burn the blood for a famous vampire in torpor before or after control of that vampire changes, but you cannot avoid paying the pool, since it will happen sometime during your untap phase regardless of who controls it. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

Thanks for all the responses. > > 1) Can you bid on your own MTA? Nothing in the card text prevents > > this. Monger is what I usually use, and it doesn't have any rulings > > about it. > > Card text online: > Choose a card you control. Starting to your left and proceeding clockwise, > other Methuselahs may bid pool for control of that card. Highest bidder > takes control of the card. You collect pool from the two highest bidders. > > (from http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/CardList.html) > > The official rulings and migrations are at: > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html > http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html > Excellent. I was only able to find a strange and new (to me) version of the WW page yesterday, and couldn't find the card list. The migration page says: "Malkavian Time Auction the Methuselah cannot bid on her own auction VTES" AFAIK, this means that clause was added to the card in the VTES printing. If so, the online text should also have this wording in it, to reflect the current text, rather than the olde Jyhad text. <SNIP> > No. Changing control of PF doesn't enable either Methuselah to > move it. > OK - so the only things that would change, is who the actions to remove the PF are directed at? For example, I have Hazimel in play, with Pulled Fangs. If my cross table buddy removed the fangs for me, it would cost 4 blood off his vampires (actions directed at Hazimel). If I moved control of the Pulled Fangs to him, and he then took actions to remove the PF, would it still cost 4 blood? > > As above, but if I used SC to buy a Famous and torpored vampire (for > > whatever reason) > > You can burn the blood for a famous vampire in torpor before or > after control of that vampire changes, but you cannot avoid paying > the pool, since it will happen sometime during your untap phase > regardless of who controls it. Ack, dumb question, my bad - I was forgetting that you pay 1 for Fame no matter who controls the vamp. A better version would be if - I'm playing pure Camarilla Malks. Judgement: Camarilla Segregation is in play. Can I order my untap phase to: 1) pay Segregation cost (zero pool) then 2) use SC to buy Count Ormonde off my cross-table buddy ...or do I still have to pay the cost (like with the Infernal question)?

Hollowboy wrote: > Thanks for all the responses. > > >>>1) Can you bid on your own MTA? Nothing in the card text prevents >>>this. Monger is what I usually use, and it doesn't have any rulings >>>about it. >> >>Card text online: >>Choose a card you control. Starting to your left and proceeding clockwise, >>other Methuselahs may bid pool for control of that card. Highest bidder >>takes control of the card. You collect pool from the two highest bidders. >> >>(from http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/CardList.html) >> >>The official rulings and migrations are at: >>http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/rulings.html >>http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/migration.html >> > > Excellent. I was only able to find a strange and new (to me) version > of the WW page yesterday, and couldn't find the card list. > > The migration page says: > > "Malkavian Time Auction the Methuselah cannot bid on her own auction > VTES" > > AFAIK, this means that clause was added to the card in the VTES > printing. If so, the online text should also have this wording in it, > to reflect the current text, rather than the olde Jyhad text. It does. See the link and quoted text above. > <SNIP> > >>No. Changing control of PF doesn't enable either Methuselah to >>move it. >> > > OK - so the only things that would change, is who the actions to > remove the PF are directed at? Correct. > For example, I have Hazimel in play, with Pulled Fangs. If my cross > table buddy removed the fangs for me, it would cost 4 blood off his > vampires (actions directed at Hazimel). If I moved control of the > Pulled Fangs to him, and he then took actions to remove the PF, would > it still cost 4 blood? It only costs when directed. When undirected, it doesn't cost. > > >>>As above, but if I used SC to buy a Famous and torpored vampire (for >>>whatever reason) >> >>You can burn the blood for a famous vampire in torpor before or >>after control of that vampire changes, but you cannot avoid paying >>the pool, since it will happen sometime during your untap phase >>regardless of who controls it. > > > Ack, dumb question, my bad - I was forgetting that you pay 1 for Fame > no matter who controls the vamp. > > A better version would be if - > > I'm playing pure Camarilla Malks. Judgement: Camarilla Segregation is > in play. Can I order my untap phase to: > > 1) pay Segregation cost (zero pool) > then > 2) use SC to buy Count Ormonde off my cross-table buddy > > ....or do I still have to pay the cost (like with the Infernal > question)? The latter, since there is no "pay nothing" effect. [ quoted text not captured ]