about Siphon

Siphon +1 stealth action. Requires a ready vampire. Choose one or more younger vampires in torpor. If there are any Gehenna cards in play, the vampires need not be younger. Steal 1 blood from each chosen vampire. If this acting vampire is Giovanni, you may also move one card from your ash heap to your hand for each blood stolen. Discard down to your hand size afterward. Only one Siphon can be played each turn. Is this a D action again targeted vampire ? Magus

Laurent B a écrit : [ quoted text not captured ] if you choose targets from only one other methuselah, then it becomes a directed action, and only the targeted methuselah can attempt to block. if you choose targets from more than one methuselah, including you, then it is an undirected action. Prey and predator can block as usual. if you choose to target your own vampires, then it is also an undirected action.

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:28:03 +0200, reyda <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] But if it targets vampires from two cross-table players, per example... It means that both would NOT be able to block it, only my predator and prey? best, Fabio "Sooner" Macedo V:TES National Coordinator for Brazil Giovanni Newsletter Editor ----------------------------------------------------- V for Vendetta on the big screen! http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

Fabio "Sooner" a écrit : > On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:28:03 +0200, reyda <true_...@hotmail.com> > wrote: > > >>Laurent B a écrit : >> >>>Siphon >>> >>>+1 stealth action. Requires a ready vampire. Choose one or more younger >>>vampires in torpor. If there are any Gehenna cards in play, the vampires >>>need not be younger. Steal 1 blood from each chosen vampire. If this >>>acting vampire is Giovanni, you may also move one card from your ash heap to >>>your hand for each blood stolen. Discard down to your hand size afterward. >>>Only one Siphon can be played each turn. >>> >>>Is this a D action again targeted vampire ? >>> >>>Magus >> >>if you choose targets from only one other methuselah, then it becomes a >>directed action, and only the targeted methuselah can attempt to block. >> >>if you choose targets from more than one methuselah, including you, then >> it is an undirected action. Prey and predator can block as usual. >> >>if you choose to target your own vampires, then it is also an undirected >>action. > > > But if it targets vampires from two cross-table players, per > example... It means that both would NOT be able to block it, only my > predator and prey? Did i misread this : LSJ May 17 2004, 12:45 pm show options Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: [LSJ] Gehenna set card qns salem wrote: > Siphon: > If you only choose target(s) controlled by one methuselah (not you), > is it a directed action? Yes.

reyda wrote: > Fabio "Sooner" a écrit : >> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 13:28:03 +0200, reyda <true_...@hotmail.com> >>> if you choose targets from only one other methuselah, then it becomes >>> a directed action, and only the targeted methuselah can attempt to >>> block. >>> >>> if you choose targets from more than one methuselah, including you, >>> then it is an undirected action. Prey and predator can block as usual. >>> >>> if you choose to target your own vampires, then it is also an >>> undirected action. >> >> But if it targets vampires from two cross-table players, per >> example... It means that both would NOT be able to block it, only my >> predator and prey? > > Did i misread this : > > LSJ May 17 2004, 12:45 pm show options > Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad > > Subject: Re: [LSJ] Gehenna set card qns > > salem wrote: > > Siphon: > > If you only choose target(s) controlled by one methuselah (not you), > > is it a directed action? > > Yes. Fabio just cast your second case into a more specific example. If the action targets exactly one other Methuselahs minions, it is directed. If it doesn't (that is, it targets only your minions, or it targets more than one Metshuelah's minions), it is undirected (even if one or more of the "targeted" Methuselahs is neither the predator nor prey). -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:24:13 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ok, let's see if I understood that. So if I target at least one minion controlled by each player on the table, the "targeted" Methuselahs who are neither my predador nor my prey would not be elligible to block it, even if it affects a minion of them. I have to deal only with block attempts from my predator and prey. Right? (evil ideas in mind) [ quoted text not captured ]

Fabio "Sooner" wrote: > On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:24:13 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> >>If the action targets exactly one other Methuselahs minions, >>it is directed. >> >>If it doesn't (that is, it targets only your minions, or it >>targets more than one Metshuelah's minions), it is undirected >>(even if one or more of the "targeted" Methuselahs is >>neither the predator nor prey). > > > Ok, let's see if I understood that. So if I target at least one minion > controlled by each player on the table, the "targeted" Methuselahs who > are neither my predador nor my prey would not be elligible to block > it, even if it affects a minion of them. I have to deal only with > block attempts from my predator and prey. Right? Yes (not counting Anneke, Eagle's Sight, etc.) [ quoted text not captured ]

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 23:24:01 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote: >Fabio "Sooner" wrote: > >> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:24:13 GMT, LSJ <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> >>>If the action targets exactly one other Methuselahs minions, >>>it is directed. >>> >>>If it doesn't (that is, it targets only your minions, or it >>>targets more than one Metshuelah's minions), it is undirected >>>(even if one or more of the "targeted" Methuselahs is >>>neither the predator nor prey). >> >> >> Ok, let's see if I understood that. So if I target at least one minion >> controlled by each player on the table, the "targeted" Methuselahs who >> are neither my predador nor my prey would not be elligible to block >> it, even if it affects a minion of them. I have to deal only with >> block attempts from my predator and prey. Right? > >Yes (not counting Anneke, Eagle's Sight, etc.) *evil combo* *evil combo* *evil combo* *evil combo* :-D (I thought a given combo I have in mind would never work because I'd had to deal with multiple methuselahs trying to block) many thanks! I'll test it and if it works I'll post it in here. best, [ quoted text not captured ]

Is it Siphon+Baltimore Purge? If so, I've thought a bit about it, and there's been some brief discussion of it here. Sadly, I don't own any BPs so I can't do the deck myself. Cthulukitty

On 8 Jun 2005 09:42:36 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, with Anarch Revolt's new wording. Just influence out enough minions to have extra actions and rescue selective Methuselah's minions from torpor and leave the pool damage to the ones you want to take it. As a side effect, use Giovanni to get cards back (the only thing I consider Siphon worth playing, even with Baltimore). You can get multiple Baltimore and the burned Anarch Revolts (which will show up in the ash heap as soon as people realize the trick) back to hand with a single Siphon. I own only 5 BP's, but I think it's enough for a 50 or 60 card deck focussing on the idea. And since you only need to torporize other Methuselah's anarchs, there's a chance that Pochtli will do in my metagame - not many vampires over 7 without titles show up in here. Or maybe I'll go crazy with Augustus. [ quoted text not captured ]

If you play the table right, you don't even need to worry about the ARs hitting the "wrong" targets. Try stacking Fame and some dom bleed into your offensive package and you'll almost certainly be ousting faster than most other meths, who are all dealing with torpored minions, whose blood is being siphoned away, and potentially wasting actions on going anarch or voting away the ARs. Remember that you need a Gehenna event in play to really make Siphon work. Just from offhand memory, you could use Anthelios to speed up your AR recursion or use either the diablerie enabler (forget what it's called) or Wormwood to make the BPs sweeter (but not both, obviously). There's probably some others you could use that would be essentially neutral or beneficial (Dragonbound??) just to make sure you get one out, or to increase the effectiveness of the stacky ones. Have fun. It's a cool idea. Cthulukitty

Dragonbound, with fame would definately work for this. Hmmm, that is a sick idea. please let us know hoqw it worked.

On 8 Jun 2005 16:26:07 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: >If you play the table right, you don't even need to worry about the ARs >hitting the "wrong" targets. Try stacking Fame and some dom bleed into >your offensive package and you'll almost certainly be ousting faster >than most other meths, who are all dealing with torpored minions, whose >blood is being siphoned away, and potentially wasting actions on going >anarch or voting away the ARs. Remember that you need a Gehenna event >in play to really make Siphon work. In fact, that's why I was considering using Augustus or Silvia. You only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for Siphon. The rest of the card works normally. And I'll usually target the recently-turned anarchs from other methuselah's, which in turn will be the non-titled ones, therefore most of the time younger than 8 or 9-cap. Even if this reasoning fails, one or two less targets won't make that much difference in the grand scheme as long as I'm able to gain 2 or three blood and the same number of cards back to hand with Siphon. Just from offhand memory, you >could use Anthelios to speed up your AR recursion or use either the >diablerie enabler (forget what it's called) or Wormwood to make the BPs >sweeter (but not both, obviously). There's probably some others you >could use that would be essentially neutral or beneficial >(Dragonbound??) just to make sure you get one out, or to increase the >effectiveness of the stacky ones. I'd prefer Anthelios, sure. Maybe Rise of the Nephtali (and a innocuous one like Blood Trade to setup it) since I'm going Gio. 4 votes is nice specially if I'm able to torporize titled vampires if needed. >Have fun. It's a cool idea. >Cthulukitty I'll try it and post the resulting deck here soon. [ quoted text not captured ]

>>You only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for Siphon. The rest of the card works normally. Ummm. Try rereading that. Normally, the vampire must be younger. Gehenna events let you target anyone. I would lean towards using a Giovanni with fortitude as the key player, since you'll want to be able Freak Drive and defend yourself in combat. Ignazio and Silvia are both good choices, as is Regina for the votes. Ultimately, the environment you're playing in should determine which of those to use, since they all fit your scheme pretty darn well. Cthulukitty

On 9 Jun 2005 12:05:12 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: >>>You >only need a Gehenna event to be able to choose younger targets for >Siphon. The rest of the card works normally. > >Ummm. Try rereading that. Normally, the vampire must be younger. >Gehenna events let you target anyone. Oh, sorry, I wrote it wrong. Read "you only need an Event to be able to choose any target, not just younger ones". I mean, I was thinking about just choosing a big enough Giovanni to guarantee I'll be able to choose most vampires torporized by the Purge. Since people usually play with big caps with titles and midcap and weenie support (specific decks aside), they'll usually turn their smaller vamps anarch to avoid the Revolts pool damage. Other option is to play the Purges with big Lasombras, so I can circumvent the gehenna event clausule by choosing which vampires to torporize. I just need to make sure they'll be younger than the Giovanni who's going to do the Siphoning - preferrably Pochtli or Carlotta, thanks to their specials if everything goes wrong. I would lean towards using a >Giovanni with fortitude as the key player, since you'll want to be able >Freak Drive and defend yourself in combat. Ignazio and Silvia are both >good choices, as is Regina for the votes. Ultimately, the environment >you're playing in should determine which of those to use, since they >all fit your scheme pretty darn well. >Cthulukitty I was thinking about something like the deck below. Sometimes I need bleed defense, and Deflection is the obvious choice. Combine the blood cost for the rescue actions I'll have to take myself, the bounce and the Freak Drive, and that's too many blood flowing away. Siphon can remedy that, but I don't want to rely on Siphon - torporizing anarch minions to trigger the Revolts is what I want. Siphon is just a nice addition to get blood and cards back, but not crucial. Deck Name : Anarchs Siphon after Baltimore Revolt Author : Fabio Sooner Description : Influence out a big [DOM] Lasombra first. Hold the Purge as long as you need it to; take your time Governing down, going anarch, playing Revolts and hunting as needed. In the meantime, you should be able to defend yourself well with bounce and Obedience. When ready, start the Baltimore madness. Choose the minions you'll torporize with caution; punish vote decks as much as possible, along with your prey, of course. Offer yourself to rescue cross-table allies if they're not too threatening in the long run or would suffer too much from the Revolts. Play Siphon to get blood back and the Baltimore Purge, along with any cards needed for passing the action/defending your key Lasombra. Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 10 average: 7.09 ------------------------------------------------------------ 2x Angelica, The Cano 10 DOM OBT POT cel obf cardinal Lasombra:2 2x Marcus Vitel Adv 10 DOM FOR OBF OBT POT PRE Lasombra:3 2x Pochtli 8 NEC OBF POT cel dom Giovanni:2 1x Carlotta Giovanni 7 NEC POT dom obf Giovanni:2 1x Rafaele Giovanni 6 NEC cel obf Giovanni:2 1x Isabel Giovanni 5 DOM NEC pot Giovanni:2 1x Chas Giovanni Tell 4 DOM POT Giovanni:2 1x Gloria Giovanni 4 DOM nec Giovanni:2 1x Lia Milliner 3 dom nec Giovanni:3 Library [72 cards] ------------------------------------------------------------ Action [16] 1x Anarch Secession 4x Baltimore Purge 5x Govern the Unaligned 2x Graverobbing 4x Siphon Action Modifier [20] 4x Call of the Hungry Dead 2x Elder Impersonation 6x Forgotten Labyrinth 4x Smoke and Mirrors 4x Seduction Event [2] 1x Anthelios, The Red Star 1x Blood Trade Master [16] 1x Acquired Ventrue Assets 1x Anarch Railroad 7x Anarch Revolt 3x Blood Doll 4x Galaric's Legacy Reaction [18] 6x Deflection 6x Obedience 6x Wake with Evening's Freshness Crafted with : Anarch Revolt Deck Builder. [Thu Jun 09 16:17:47 2005] I'd love to include a Barrens, a Dreams and other similar flow-enhancer cards, but I'm not sure what to ditch out. I suspect this deck would function better with even less cards... Do you think 72 is good enough? I also included two events for general usefulness and for emergencies regarding Siphon's clause. Other nasty idea was to combine Ankla Hotep or Spider Killer and the [obf] Giovanni. It would grant me one discipline in common (obf), Purges at +1 stealth (or +2 if Spider-Killer is the man) or rescuing the key vamp for 0 blood (Ankla). The downside is that I won't choose the vamps to be torporized... The main problem is that Dominate is too damn good to throw away the mix. It grants bounce, poolgain, influence-speeder tech and combat avoidance. If the main vampire is a non-[DOM] one like Ankla or Spider, I won't be able to Govern down from the beginning. It would make the crypt even bigger and vulnerable for a quick sneaky bleed predator. I won't be playing V:tES for at least the next week, so if someone cares to try this deck or some variation of it, please tell me how it goes. It's not a friendly deck, so I appreciate to know reactions to it and prepare myself for the complaints if it works as planned ;-) [ quoted text not captured ]

Note that the vamp calling the purge does not need to be Lasombra for you to pick the targets. You only need to control a Lasombra. When I was thinking about doing a deck like this I was going to use a high cap Giovanni along with weenie Giovanni and Lasombra. The fatty plays BP while the smaller Giovanni Siphon away blood and get back cards and the Lasombra play deflection. That was my idea... yours might work too. I'll look at your list later... Cthulukitty

On 10 Jun 2005 14:59:29 -0700, "CthuluKitty" <vtana...@riseup.net> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Oh, I realise this, but I thought that once I use a small cap Lasombra, I'd be obliged to defend it. Bigger Lasombras defend themselves better with Obedience, and the Giovanni chosen (Pochtli and Carlotta) have better chances to use it than a small cap. Of course, I could just include a bigger Giovanni with [obf], like Ignazio, and still more wakes to block and play Obedience. But what do I do if someone puts a Haven Uncovered on the small Lasombra? I also noticed that at least three big Lasombras have [obf] or [OBF], so they're very good to combine with Pochtli and Carlotta for a lot of stealth. Otherwise I would have to include Obtenebration stealth that the Giovanni can't play, or Necromancy stealth/block fails that the Lasombra can't play. And Baltimore Purge is a 0-stealth action. That was the primary reason why I wasn't going key-vamp + weenies. It would leave me too dependent on defending the weenie/ influencing out another if the first was killed. Playing big caps still leaves the second part as a problem, but the first is way easier to achieve. [ quoted text not captured ]