+1 stealth vs. -1 intercept [LSJ?]

Okay, I'm not sure if the question is completely obvious from the title, so I'll pose the question. Miranda Sanova, for example, has her special which, IIRC, says "Brujah attempting to block Miranda have -1 intercept." So, Miranda is taking an action, let's say bleeding her methuselah's prey. Lupo. controlled by the prey, attempts to block. Miranda has 0 stealth, and Lupo has -1 intercept. Now, if it works like regular math, Miranda should be able to slip by Lupo since she technically has stealth higher than Lupo's intercept. However, I can imagine a case where it could be argued that since Miranda actually has no stealth, so Lupo can still intercept her. In other words, why doesn't it just say "Miranda gains +1 stealth when a Brujah attempts to block her," or something similar. I assume that the correct answer to the Miranda vs. Lupo question is that Lupo cannot block her without additional intercept, but I'd like to know for sure. Xian "they look at you funny when you attack things like a hungry mountain lion on crack" --greensea -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

Xian: Inittially, Miranda has 0 stealth so Lupo can block it as normal. IF you play +1 stealth on Miranda, THEN Lupo _MUST_ play +2 Intercept to block her. Stealth and Intercept are different things. If a vampire has -1 intercept when blocking, he hasn't to play +1 intercept to block an action if the opposing minion doesn't have any stealth. But if the opposing minion plays +1 stealth, than he HAS to play +2 intercept to block it. Is this correct, LSJ? .- Luis....@ip.pt Xian wrote in message <73s8ch$jtu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... [ quoted text not captured ]

Luis P. Duarte wrote: > Inittially, Miranda has 0 stealth so Lupo can block it as normal. Incorrect. To block, the blocking minion's intercept must equal or exceed the acting minion's stealth. [6.2.2.2] -1 is not "equal to or greater than" 0, so Lupo's block will fail (unless he adds intercept). > Xian wrote in message <73s8ch$jtu$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>... > >Okay, I'm not sure if the question is completely obvious from the title, so > >I'll pose the question. > > > >Miranda Sanova, for example, has her special which, IIRC, says "Brujah > >attempting to block Miranda have -1 intercept." So, Miranda is taking an > >action, let's say bleeding her methuselah's prey. Lupo. controlled by the > >prey, attempts to block. Miranda has 0 stealth, and Lupo has -1 intercept. > > > >Now, if it works like regular math, Miranda should be able to slip by Lupo > >since she technically has stealth higher than Lupo's intercept. However, I > >can imagine a case where it could be argued that since Miranda actually has > >no stealth, so Lupo can still intercept her. In other words, why doesn't > it > >just say "Miranda gains +1 stealth when a Brujah attempts to block her," or > >something similar. > > > >I assume that the correct answer to the Miranda vs. Lupo question is that > >Lupo cannot block her without additional intercept, but I'd like to know > for > >sure. > > > >Xian > > > >"they look at you funny when you attack things like a hungry mountain > >lion on crack" --greensea > > > >-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- > >http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own -- L. Scott Johnson (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html

Luis P. Duarte wrote: > > Xian: > > Inittially, Miranda has 0 stealth so Lupo can block it as normal. > IF you play +1 stealth on Miranda, THEN Lupo _MUST_ play > +2 Intercept to block her. > > Stealth and Intercept are different things. If a vampire has -1 intercept > when blocking, he hasn't to play +1 intercept to block an action if the > opposing minion doesn't have any stealth. > But if the opposing minion plays +1 stealth, than he HAS to play +2 > intercept > to block it. > > Is this correct, LSJ? > IANALSJ, however... That is most definitely *not* correct. This isn't a difficult concept. If intercept < stealth, the block is unsuccessful. If intercept => stealth, the block is successful. If you have -1 intercept, then you cannot block an action at 0 stealth. -Chris

In article <3662B4E6...@cco.caltech.edu>, [ quoted text not captured ] Yes, i asked a similar question to this not long ago and LSJ confirmed that stealth or intercept can drop below 0, if stealth <= intercept then that action -may- be blocked... it isn't limited by the 0 barrier apparently... So the answer would be that if intercept is -1 and steath is 0, actian can't be blocked ;) Simidh (finally able to actually answer a question ;P ) __ __ ,-"_", __ ,-.______.-.___.---------' '--"" "" (___\`, (__ . _ _ . __/ )_ ',_.------._.---._________ __ )*___) ( / ) ) ( (_/ / ) `--' ""--"",("_"/,' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- --===={) sim...@iweb.net.au (}====-- `---' Prince Of Adelaide >;-<=

LSJ wrote in message <36629C...@wizards.com>... >> Inittially, Miranda has 0 stealth so Lupo can block it as normal. > >Incorrect. To block, the blocking minion's intercept must equal >or exceed the acting minion's stealth. [6.2.2.2] > >-1 is not "equal to or greater than" 0, so Lupo's block will >fail (unless he adds intercept). Wrong?!! :) But who said Miranda has as ability +1 stealth as Jost Werner? And by Xian's own words (see below): "Miranda has 0 stealth..." If Miranda doesn't have stealth, Lupo *will* block her! If Lupo has -1 intercept doesn't mean that Miranda has +1 stealth! BUT, if Miranda gets +1 stealth somehow, then Lupo must have +2 intercept to block her, to equalize Miranda's stealth level. Where am i wrong, LSJ? .- Luis....@ip.pt [ quoted text not captured ]

Ok! I've just read some posts below and apparently i'm wrong. I got that impression sometime ago in a discussion here. Lupo can't block Miranda and there can be negative values of intercept (and stealth, i suppose). Negative values of intercept seem strange... .- Luis....@ip.pt

In article <3662d...@news.esc.net.au>, sim...@iweb.net.au (Simidh) wrote: > Yes, i asked a similar question to this not long ago and LSJ confirmed that > stealth or intercept can drop below 0, if stealth <= intercept then that > action -may- be blocked... it isn't limited by the 0 barrier apparently... > > So the answer would be that if intercept is -1 and steath is 0, actian can't > be blocked ;) I think the problem comes from the results of other things that can go to -1. For instance, a bleed of -1 doesn't give you a pool. Or hand damage of -1 doesn't give the opposing vampire a blood. Basically, effects that are negative are ignored unless it's stealth vs. intercept. Mike -- Mike Bohlmann, MAIP - Prince of Urbana-Champaign [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] Think of stealth as "being sneaky", and intercept as "paying attention". Zero stealth is just doing what you're trying to do without bothering to try to hide it. Zero intercept is just watching what you ought to be watching and not paying special attention to weird things. +1 intercept (ie inferior Enhanced Senses) is when you notice that the dog didn't bark in the night (quick, reference game! :) and go to investigate that everything's OK. +1 stealth is when you blow up the trashcans to cause a diversion in the lobby so you can sneak upstairs while the security guards don't watch. Simple so far... -1 stealth is when you blow YOURSELF up in the lobby and then try to sneak upstairs under the theory that everyone will be trying to put the trashcan back together. -1 intercept is when you're so stoned you can't even identify who YOU are, much less who the guy walking past you to the stairs is, and was that a loud boom somewhere near? Trippy. Better? =) So Fleshcraft giving -2 stealth seems a lot more meaningful now; everyone notices the guy with his ears tied in a knot and his lips hanging down to his chest. And Brujah having -1 intercept against Miranda is reasonable too; perhaps she's just the "trustworthy one", or that one person everyone knows who you just KNOW would never do anything bad and couldn't conceive of it. But people who don't know her (ie not other Brujah) just see her as one more of those Damn Troublemakers and so don't lose intercept. -- Derek (replying by email? remove the nospam from my domain :)