In recent weeks, this question has popped up.
"Can I play this action card? I meet the requirements (discipline and
clan) but I can't afford to pay the blood costs."
According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
fails. This effectively enables the player to burn a card from their
hand. It doesn't seem right. Is there a requirement to be able to pay
the blood cost for the action before the action is announced?
What say you?
Andrew Daley wrote:
> In recent weeks, this question has popped up.
> "Can I play this action card? I meet the requirements (discipline and
> clan) but I can't afford to pay the blood costs."
The cost is one of the requirements.
> According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
> fails.
This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
If you cannot pay the cost at the start, then you cannot start the action.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
In message <3EDDF33...@white-wolf.com>, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com>
writes:
>> According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
>> fails.>
>This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
>unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
It's probably worth pointing out that you have to pay partial costs
these days.
# You must pay the cost. If, between the time a card is played or an
action is attempted and the time the cost is paid, you no longer can pay
the cost, then you pay as much as you can and the card is burned without
effect (or the action has no effect). [RTR 20010710]
--
James Coupe
PGP Key: 0x5D623D5D
Lucky that my breasts are small and humble, EBD690ECD7A1FB457CA2
So you don't confuse them with mountains. 13D7E668C3695D623D5D
LSJ wrote:
> This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
> unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
Just as an example of such a situation (which probably isn't actually *that*
rare...), say you have a vampire with Dominate and Protean. The vampire has
1 blood. She plays Govern the Unaligned at inferior to bleed her prey (cost
of1 blood). During the action, someone Wakes and attempts to block. For
whatever reason, she doesn't want to be blocked, so she plays Earth Control
for +1 stealth, which costs 1 blood. She isn't blocked, but now doesn't have
the blood to pay for the Govern, so the Govern fails.
Peter D Bakija
PD...@bigplanet.com
http://www.myplanet.net/pdb6
"My health is failing me, so I flip on the television,
and watch sad movies and look for sad, sick people like me."
-Tegan and Sara
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EDDF33...@white-wolf.com>...
> > In recent weeks, this question has popped up.
> > "Can I play this action card? I meet the requirements (discipline and
> > clan) but I can't afford to pay the blood costs."
> The cost is one of the requirements.
>
> > According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
> > fails.> This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
> unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
2 Additional questions, just to be sure:
1)What if the action was a Force of Will? Do you still take the agg
damage, even though you can't pay for the action anymore?
2) How does it interact with the NRA rules? Suppose you take the
action, lose the blood to pay for it in the course of the action, than
gain some (Heidelberg for instance) after *taking* this action. Can
you then attempt to take it again?
Thanks for claryfing,
Jo
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EDDF33...@white-wolf.com>...
> Andrew Daley wrote:
> > In recent weeks, this question has popped up.
> > "Can I play this action card? I meet the requirements (discipline and
> > clan) but I can't afford to pay the blood costs."
>
> The cost is one of the requirements.
We searched the rule book and it didn't say you had to meet the cost.
> > According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
> > fails.
>
> This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
> unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
That is the only time in the rule book that mentions cost
requirements. I hope I am right when I say this. We debated this issue
for hours and read the cammie rules addition. Is there a need to
change the rule book?
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <8821ff0a.03060...@posting.google.com>, Andrew
Daley <dal...@iinet.net.au> writes:
>> This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
>> unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.>
>That is the only time in the rule book that mentions cost
>requirements. I hope I am right when I say this.
You're not.
"Requirements for Playing Cards. Each library card has symbols on the
attribute bar (the marble stripe on the left side) for the card type
(for minion cards), the clan or Discipline (if any) required to play the
card and the cost (if any) of playing that card. Some cards will have
other requirements (such as capacity or title) stated in the card text.
Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play
it" [1.6.1.3]
The cost is part of the requirements. If you don't meet the
requirements, you can't play it.
This is inherent to all cards, so isn't covered specifically under
actions. The ability for you to end up not being able to pay for the
action *is* specific to actions, so is covered there.
[ quoted text not captured ]
wolflord wrote:
> LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EDDF33...@white-wolf.com>...>>>According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
>>>fails.> 1)What if the action was a Force of Will? Do you still take the agg
> damage, even though you can't pay for the action anymore?
Yes. Per card text, the damage done is not tied to the successful
resolution of the action.
> 2) How does it interact with the NRA rules? Suppose you take the
> action, lose the blood to pay for it in the course of the action, than
> gain some (Heidelberg for instance) after *taking* this action. Can
> you then attempt to take it again?
No. The NRA rules are also not tied to the successful resolution
of the action.
[ quoted text not captured ]
James Coupe <ja...@zephyr.org.uk> wrote in message news:<IIGXOKHh...@gratiano.zephyr.org.uk>...
> In message <8821ff0a.03060...@posting.google.com>, Andrew
> Daley <dal...@iinet.net.au> writes:
> >> This is true, but only applies for those rare cases in which you become
> >> unable to pay the cost during the course of the action.
> >
> >That is the only time in the rule book that mentions cost
> >requirements. I hope I am right when I say this.
>
> You're not.
>
> "Requirements for Playing Cards. Each library card has symbols on the
> attribute bar (the marble stripe on the left side) for the card type
> (for minion cards), the clan or Discipline (if any) required to play the
> card and the cost (if any) of playing that card. Some cards will have
> other requirements (such as capacity or title) stated in the card text.
> Only a minion who meets the requirements given on a minion card can play
> it" [1.6.1.3]
>
> The cost is part of the requirements. If you don't meet the
> requirements, you can't play it.
>
So I guess that covers playing master cards you can't pay the cost
for. You don't have the pool at the start of the action (equipping a
.44) then you can't do it. And I guess for what ever reason, you lose
pool and can't pay the full cost you pay partial cost.
Thanks for pointing the rule out to me James. Also thanks to the
other's reply. I will have some evidence to back up the decision with
my play group. :)
I just think perhaps this should be mentioned in the performing an
action section (6.1.6) were I think is the local place to look for an
answer to the question. Though, 1.6.1.3 is quite clear, just not
sequential.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EDF4698...@white-wolf.com>...
> wolflord wrote:
> > LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:<3EDDF33...@white-wolf.com>...
> >>>According to the rules, if you can't meet the blood costs the action
> >>>fails.
> > 1)What if the action was a Force of Will? Do you still take the agg
> > damage, even though you can't pay for the action anymore?
>
> Yes. Per card text, the damage done is not tied to the successful
> resolution of the action.
Does this mean that if a bum's rush is blocked that the acting minion
can not replace the bum's rush to after the resulting combat?
[ quoted text not captured ]
In message <8821ff0a.03060...@posting.google.com>, Andrew
Daley <dal...@iinet.net.au> writes:
>> Yes. Per card text, the damage done is not tied to the successful
>> resolution of the action.>
>Does this mean that if a bum's rush is blocked that the acting minion
>can not replace the bum's rush to after the resulting combat?
That's not quite the same thing; Force of Will is totally specific that
its damage is done, whether unblocked or not.
However, if blocked, you do not replace Bum's Rush until the end of the
action (not just the combat - see the current card text).
If Bum's Rush's "Do not replace" text only happened on successful
actions, you'd have already replaced it anyway.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Andrew Daley wrote:
> Does this mean that if a bum's rush is blocked that the acting minion
> can not replace the bum's rush to after the resulting combat?
This is true, but it isn't related to the Force of Will thing.
Replacement is a function of card play (always). Having to wait
until the action resolves (successfully) before not replacing
is awkward, since the card will have already been replaced in
that case.
So the card, when played, is not replaced (until the specified
time). This is independent of the resolution of the card (unless
the play of the card is canceled).
[ quoted text not captured ]
>>Does this mean that if a bum's rush is blocked that the acting minion
>>can not replace the bum's rush to after the resulting combat?>
>That's not quite the same thing; Force of Will is totally specific that
>its damage is done, whether unblocked or not.
>
>
>
>However, if blocked, you do not replace Bum's Rush until the end of the
>action (not just the combat - see the current card text).
>
>If Bum's Rush's "Do not replace" text only happened on successful
>actions, you'd have already replaced it anyway.
Except of course for the case when a blocked action still becomes successful
(due to "continue action" cards).
Halcyan 2