A long time ago, I gave the HoS a try only to find out that their offense
was lacking. So, I tried to make a HoS political deck. It worked ok, but
was never great. So...with Brinksmanship coming up on the radar, I decided
to tweak the deck a bit and see if I could pull something off. It swept a 3
player game, which means relatively little. I'd really like to pair this
down so that its a 70 card deck, but I have no idea what I can take out,
etc. Any and almost all suggestions (barring the "don't play with the
Harbingers" suggestions I'll inevitably get) are welcome.
Basic strategy: get everyone at the table fat with pool and comfortable.
Use Bribes on as many political actions as possible to ensure consistant
pool gain for the trouble of calling your political actions (and pay for the
Brinksmanship). All the while, mill them for as many cards as possible.
Sit back and defend. Try to pass Brinksmanship as early as possible. Store
away your revelations or Lupine Assault until they have just their hand
left.
Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
----------------------------------------------
3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
Library: (90 cards)
-------------------
Master (19 cards)
3 Auspex
1 Creepshow Casino
1 Dreams of the Sphinx
1 Lazarene Inquisitor
1 Lupine Assault
1 Parthenon, The
1 Powerbase: Madrid
1 Protected Resources
7 Slaughterhouse, The
2 Storage Annex
Action (7 cards)
2 Creation Rites
1 Eternal Vigilance
2 Revelations
2 Summon Soul
Action Modifier (27 cards)
7 Bribes
4 Call of the Hungry Dead
3 Change of Target
4 Cryptic Rider
1 Kiss of Ra, The
3 Private Audience
5 Telepathic Vote Counting
Political Action (14 cards)
7 Autarkis Persecution
2 Brinksmanship
1 Cardinal Benediction
1 Crusade: Houston
1 Crusade: Philadelphia
1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
1 Rumors of Gehenna
Reaction (13 cards)
2 My Enemy's Enemy
5 Telepathic Counter
6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Combat (6 cards)
5 Skin of Steel
1 Superior Mettle
Equipment (2 cards)
1 Erebus Mask
1 Sargon Fragment, The
Combo (2 cards)
2 Spectral Divination
Jon Stahler wrote:
> A long time ago, I gave the HoS a try only to find out that their
> offense was lacking. So, I tried to make a HoS political deck. It
> worked ok, but was never great. So...with Brinksmanship coming up on
> the radar, I decided to tweak the deck a bit and see if I could pull
> something off. It swept a 3 player game, which means relatively
> little. I'd really like to pair this down so that its a 70 card
> deck, but I have no idea what I can take out, etc. Any and almost
> all suggestions (barring the "don't play with the Harbingers"
> suggestions I'll inevitably get) are welcome.
>
> Basic strategy: get everyone at the table fat with pool and
> comfortable. Use Bribes on as many political actions as possible to
> ensure consistant pool gain for the trouble of calling your political
> actions (and pay for the Brinksmanship). All the while, mill them
> for as many cards as possible. Sit back and defend. Try to pass
> Brinksmanship as early as possible. Store away your revelations or
> Lupine Assault until they have just their hand left.
The problem as I see it is that you just can't Mill fast enough in order for
the table not to time out, even if you succeed in milling your first prey,
it will be turn 10-12 by then. 1.5vp just isn't a good goal. You either need
to increase the slaughterhouse count so that you get a new one each turn (in
which case you'll need more parthenons) or include Feline Saboteur.
>
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
>
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (19 cards)
> 3 Auspex
> 1 Creepshow Casino
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> 1 Lupine Assault
> 1 Parthenon, The
> 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> 1 Protected Resources
> 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> 2 Storage Annex
If you want to go withthe Slaughterhouse every turn, you will need about 14.
with 5 Parthenons, and more rumors. Cut the Creepshow, Lazarene Inquisitor.
You'll have to go up to about 25 plus masters, Lots of Storage Annex seems
like a good way to cut hand jam.
>
> Action (7 cards)
> 2 Creation Rites
> 1 Eternal Vigilance
> 2 Revelations
> 2 Summon Soul
Drop the creation rites for 2 more revelations.
>
> Action Modifier (27 cards)
> 7 Bribes
> 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> 3 Change of Target
> 4 Cryptic Rider
> 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> 3 Private Audience
> 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
>
> Political Action (14 cards)
> 7 Autarkis Persecution
> 2 Brinksmanship
> 1 Cardinal Benediction
> 1 Crusade: Houston
> 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> 1 Rumors of Gehenna
Wouldn't more Cardinal Benidictions be better than most of the praxis
seizures? More votes plus built in private audience. More rumors, 3 would
work with the increased master count. You need more Brinksmanship.
>
> Reaction (13 cards)
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> 5 Telepathic Counter
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Seems like you are giving the table pool, shouldn't you just want combat
defense?
>
> Combat (6 cards)
> 5 Skin of Steel
> 1 Superior Mettle
More for, a combat deck will crush your hopes.
>
> Equipment (2 cards)
> 1 Erebus Mask
> 1 Sargon Fragment, The
>
> Combo (2 cards)
> 2 Spectral Divination
Your steath count is really light. What if someone blocks both of your
Brinksmanships, and your 2 Summon Souls? More stealth and more
brinksmanship.
Hope it helps,
Colin Riggs
>Basic strategy: get everyone at the table fat with pool and comfortable.
>Use Bribes on as many political actions as possible to ensure consistant
>pool gain for the trouble of calling your political actions (and pay for the
>Brinksmanship). All the while, mill them for as many cards as possible.
>Sit back and defend. Try to pass Brinksmanship as early as possible. Store
>away your revelations or Lupine Assault until they have just their hand
>left.
>
>Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
>----------------------------------------------
>3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
>3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
>2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
>2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
>2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
For Agaitas, might want to have a permanent way of unloading useless cards such
as The Barrens or Fragment (You're going to steal the Fragment? Go for it.)
>Library: (90 cards)
>-------------------
>Master (19 cards)
>3 Auspex
Lose. I wouldn't bother with the Creation Rites. Certainly isn't going to
matter much if they have Auspex while you have enough guys with AUS that you
don't need to elevate the others.
>1 Creepshow Casino
>1 Dreams of the Sphinx
>1 Lazarene Inquisitor
>1 Lupine Assault
>1 Parthenon, The
>1 Powerbase: Madrid
>1 Protected Resources
>7 Slaughterhouse, The
>2 Storage Annex
I agree with Colin that you need a lot more Slaughterhouses. If you are never
going to bleed, going to have little to do, so some Blood Dolls would make
hunting, and potentially Egothha special's, useful; can't rely on Agaitas to
fetch you blood management.
>Action (7 cards)
>2 Creation Rites
>1 Eternal Vigilance
>2 Revelations
>2 Summon Soul
I don't see any of this being that important. I can see that each has a point,
but they are all peripheral to the deck's strategy. I'd only add these back in
after shoring up more obvious needs.
>Action Modifier (27 cards)
>7 Bribes
>4 Call of the Hungry Dead
>3 Change of Target
Lose.
>4 Cryptic Rider
>1 Kiss of Ra, The
>3 Private Audience
>5 Telepathic Vote Counting
Seems to me this is trying to pass vote overkill. You could always play with
Quentin and Demonstration if you think it's that hard.
>Political Action (14 cards)
>7 Autarkis Persecution
Is this enough?
>2 Brinksmanship
Need more.
>1 Cardinal Benediction
>1 Crusade: Houston
>1 Crusade: Philadelphia
>1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
>1 Rumors of Gehenna
I don't like the Crusades either. OTOH, I do like some sort of anti-weenie
play as you'll feed a weenie predator. Aranthebes is good in almost every
deck. If you want it to be a vote for Cryptic Ridering, could go on a Snipe
Hunt.
>Reaction (13 cards)
>2 My Enemy's Enemy
>5 Telepathic Counter
>6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Where I differ with Colin is that I think you need more pool defense as you
won't be gaining that much from the APs barring early play of Creation Rites
and you will be giving everyone more minions with which to go forward.
>Combat (6 cards)
>5 Skin of Steel
>1 Superior Mettle
>
>Equipment (2 cards)
>1 Erebus Mask
>1 Sargon Fragment, The
In terms of combat "defense", due to the likely nature of the game you will
play, I'd put in permanents. Assault Rifle, Ivory Bow, whatever is necessary
to keep people from declaring open season.
>Combo (2 cards)
>2 Spectral Divination
As for getting the necessary actions through, there's always Daring the Dawn.
Jon Stahler wrote:
just a simple suggestion, basedon my experience : add a couple Contengency
plannings in your deck. Because if somone manages to steal your
slaughterhouses via Kine Dominance or Disputed Territory, you'll have a hard
time to deplete your prey's library. Even worse, if your predator controls
it, you'll be the one to get "milled". The contengency also allows you to
take care of annoying locations such as hungry coyote, Nosferatu kingdom...
"reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:3ed63957$0$10021$79c1...@nan-newsreader-01.noos.net...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Not contingency planning (anti-bounce)
Unnatural Disaster?
Zoning Board?
Arson?
Rampage?
Arika?
but based on the way its used I think it was the zoning board.
-JTP
Jon Stahler wrote:
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
On a lark, maybe try throwing in some Malkavians so you can use
Rider Clauses? You really really really really need to get that
Brinksmanship vote off or you're doomed. Maybe try !Ventrue
instead, for Quentin + Demonstration power - which also helps keep
the rest of the table static while you set up the Brinksmanship.
Oh, another reason for using Malkavians is for Malkavian Prank.
If one of your strategies is to get the table fat on pool, it's
hard to beat the Prank. :)
I guess one dynamic you may encounter is that people will be sure
to save a DI in their hand as soon as they see a Harbinger hit the
table, to pick off the inevitable Brinksmanship.
Oh, another thing about the crypt: You don't need to have most of
the crypt be Harbingers. You only need enough to ensure that you
get one out - particularly Gisela. You could probably drop the
Harbinger count down to six, freeing up a couple slots for other
vamps (with titles).
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (19 cards)
> 3 Auspex
> 1 Creepshow Casino
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> 1 Lupine Assault
> 1 Parthenon, The
> 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> 1 Protected Resources
> 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> 2 Storage Annex
I think you can drop the Parthenon, since that'd put you at 18 masters,
which is only 2 above the norm of about 16. Also, you've got a pair of
Storage Annexes in there, and those can help you cycle a master out of
your hand (by stuffing one in the Annex when you play it). The Lazarene
Inquisitor doesn't look like a critical component, though perhaps it's
useful for suppressing the table (have you found it to be useful in the
deck? I'm curious).
You should also use The Barrens, but I always say that. :)
And what's up with no Blood Dolls? 2-point Autarkis Persecutions
plus a Bribes isn't going to be enough to fend off an aggressive
predator.
> Action (7 cards)
> 2 Creation Rites
> 1 Eternal Vigilance
> 2 Revelations
> 2 Summon Soul
Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be inclined
to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
cards (namely, Resilience).
> Action Modifier (27 cards)
> 7 Bribes
> 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> 3 Change of Target
> 4 Cryptic Rider
> 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> 3 Private Audience
> 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
You'll really want to have a couple of Daring the Dawn to ensure
the delivery of a Brinksmanship.
> Political Action (14 cards)
> 7 Autarkis Persecution
> 2 Brinksmanship
> 1 Cardinal Benediction
> 1 Crusade: Houston
> 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> 1 Rumors of Gehenna
If you go with the !Ventrue supporting cast, you'd probably want to
swap out two Autarkis Persecutions for an Ancient Influence and a
Political Stranglehold.
You also might want to consider a Dramatic Upheaval for more table
manipulation.
OH! If you're looking to keep the table slowed down, it's hard to
beat a Political Flux for 1. :)
> Reaction (13 cards)
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> 5 Telepathic Counter
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
I was gonna criticize the low amount of defense, but perhaps the
table bloating methods help with that.
I'd still swap the 2 x My Enemy's Enemy for a pair of Telepathic
Misdirections. My Enemy's Enemy can have a de-stabilizing effect,
which doesn't seem to be what this deck wants.
> Combat (6 cards)
> 5 Skin of Steel
> 1 Superior Mettle
>
> Equipment (2 cards)
> 1 Erebus Mask
> 1 Sargon Fragment, The
Putting in The Sargon Fragment for the sake of Maldavis seems
excessive. :)
Good luck!
- Ben Peal, Prince of Boston
fu...@mindstorm.com
"Jon Stahler" <!NOSPAM!sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
Consider Juan Cali instead of Maldavis.
> Master (19 cards)
> 3 Auspex
> 1 Creepshow Casino
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> 1 Lupine Assault
> 1 Parthenon, The
> 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> 1 Protected Resources
> 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> 2 Storage Annex
Maybe another Protected Resources; if you plan never to bleed, then
having more bleed defence would be good. Drop one of the Auspex
masters and add a Fortitude master for Agaitas.
No Blood Dolls?
Depending on your local metagame, Detection might be worthwhile. If
you rely on the priscus too much then Gratiano can ruin your day. It's
one of the only clan hosers I've ever played. Just a thought.
> Action (7 cards)
> 2 Creation Rites
> 1 Eternal Vigilance
> 2 Revelations
> 2 Summon Soul
I wouldn't bother with the Creation Rites. Summon Soul is good, but
you plan to use the Sargon Fragment, so its unnecessary.
4 x Restoration could be a useful replacement.
> Political Action (14 cards)
> 7 Autarkis Persecution
> 2 Brinksmanship
> 1 Cardinal Benediction
> 1 Crusade: Houston
> 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> 1 Rumors of Gehenna
Why not use Cardinal Benediction instead of the crusades? It's a
better title, only Sabbat vampires can vote in the referendum, and
once Agaitas has a Fortitude master all of your HoS can receive the
title.
> Reaction (13 cards)
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> 5 Telepathic Counter
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
Telepathic Misdirection might be better bleed defence. Telepathic
Counter rarely deals with an entire bleed, nor does it discourage your
predator from adding bleed modifiers (thus cycling cards).
Flick the big bleeds to somebody who you know can block them, if you
don't want to hurt anyone.
> Combat (6 cards)
> 5 Skin of Steel
> 1 Superior Mettle
I prefer Rolling with the Punches for the HoS. I also use about
two-three times as many combat cards (including Spiritual Intervention
for S:CE); maybe your local metagame doesn't have as much combat.
> Equipment (2 cards)
> 1 Erebus Mask
> 1 Sargon Fragment, The
Another Erebus Mask would be good, so that you can get it earlier in
the game.
james o'rance
http://www.geocities.com/dragon-dreamer/vampire
Ben Peal wrote:
> Jon Stahler wrote:>> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
>> ----------------------------------------------
>> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
>> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
>> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
>> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
>> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff>
> On a lark, maybe try throwing in some Malkavians so you can use
> Rider Clauses? You really really really really need to get that
> Brinksmanship vote off or you're doomed. Maybe try !Ventrue
> instead, for Quentin + Demonstration power - which also helps keep
> the rest of the table static while you set up the Brinksmanship.
Don't forget Michael Luther, Quentin's little brother. His aus works with
this deck, and if he enters combat and you have Agaitas you can mill your
opponent's deck a little more... :)
--Fredrik
Fredrik Appelberg wrote:
> Don't forget Michael Luther, Quentin's little brother. His aus works with
> this deck, and if he enters combat and you have Agaitas you can mill your
> opponent's deck a little more... :)
Michael Luther's ability is not "drawing a replacement", so Agaitas's
ability won't be applicable there.
--
LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc.
Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar:
http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/
<snipped>
>
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (19 cards)
> > 3 Auspex
> > 1 Creepshow Casino
> > 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> > 1 Lupine Assault
> > 1 Parthenon, The
> > 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> > 1 Protected Resources
> > 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> > 2 Storage Annex
>
> I think you can drop the Parthenon, since that'd put you at 18 masters,
> which is only 2 above the norm of about 16. Also, you've got a pair of
> Storage Annexes in there, and those can help you cycle a master out of
> your hand (by stuffing one in the Annex when you play it). The Lazarene
> Inquisitor doesn't look like a critical component, though perhaps it's
> useful for suppressing the table (have you found it to be useful in the
> deck? I'm curious).
>
No. I agree with you in most of your impressive evaluation, but I guess you
have forgotten a point: You really need yto avoid someone from SUCCESSFULLY
retreating. Thus, Lazarene inquisitor offers you the way for that blood
points that allows you to oust him
Smiling Tom
"Curevei" <cur...@aol.commetal> wrote in message
news:20030529121917...@mb-m10.aol.com...
[ quoted text not captured ]
I agree about everything EXCEPT the revelations. Brinksmanship only fires
off when they start a round with fewer cards than a full hand, so being able
to snipe a card from their hand is golden for Brinksmanship to work.
> >Action Modifier (27 cards)
> >7 Bribes
> >4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> >3 Change of Target
>
> Lose.
>
> >4 Cryptic Rider
> >1 Kiss of Ra, The
> >3 Private Audience
> >5 Telepathic Vote Counting
>
> Seems to me this is trying to pass vote overkill. You could always play
with
> Quentin and Demonstration if you think it's that hard.
In a vote-heavy game, it will make a huge difference in getting the
Brinksmanship to pass.
> >Political Action (14 cards)
> >7 Autarkis Persecution
>
> Is this enough?
>
> >2 Brinksmanship
>
> Need more.
Why? Its gonna take a few turns to kill off their deck anyway...which gives
me time to get the Brinksmanship in hand. Again, the goal is to pair this
deck down to 70 cards or so...flow should be better with fewer cards.
> >1 Cardinal Benediction
> >1 Crusade: Houston
> >1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> >1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> >1 Rumors of Gehenna
>
> I don't like the Crusades either. OTOH, I do like some sort of
anti-weenie
> play as you'll feed a weenie predator. Aranthebes is good in almost every
> deck. If you want it to be a vote for Cryptic Ridering, could go on a
Snipe
> Hunt.
Good idea. We generally don't see too many weenie decks around here, but if
it starts to become a problem, I'll definitely add.
> >Reaction (13 cards)
> >2 My Enemy's Enemy
> >5 Telepathic Counter
> >6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> Where I differ with Colin is that I think you need more pool defense as
you
> won't be gaining that much from the APs barring early play of Creation
Rites
> and you will be giving everyone more minions with which to go forward.
True...I've already eliminated the Creation Rites from the deck, although it
was nice having one come into play last night.
>
> >Combat (6 cards)
> >5 Skin of Steel
> >1 Superior Mettle
> >
> >Equipment (2 cards)
> >1 Erebus Mask
> >1 Sargon Fragment, The
>
> In terms of combat "defense", due to the likely nature of the game you
will
> play, I'd put in permanents. Assault Rifle, Ivory Bow, whatever is
necessary
> to keep people from declaring open season.
>
> >Combo (2 cards)
> >2 Spectral Divination
>
> As for getting the necessary actions through, there's always Daring the
Dawn.
True...trying to keep out of torpor as much as possible, though. It could
come in handy, though.
"Ben Peal" <fu...@optical.mindstorm.com> wrote in message
news:bf72a12e.03052...@posting.google.com...
> Jon Stahler wrote:
> > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> > 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> > 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> > 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> > 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
>
> On a lark, maybe try throwing in some Malkavians so you can use
> Rider Clauses? You really really really really need to get that
> Brinksmanship vote off or you're doomed. Maybe try !Ventrue
> instead, for Quentin + Demonstration power - which also helps keep
> the rest of the table static while you set up the Brinksmanship.
>
> Oh, another reason for using Malkavians is for Malkavian Prank.
> If one of your strategies is to get the table fat on pool, it's
> hard to beat the Prank. :)
>
> I guess one dynamic you may encounter is that people will be sure
> to save a DI in their hand as soon as they see a Harbinger hit the
> table, to pick off the inevitable Brinksmanship.
>
> Oh, another thing about the crypt: You don't need to have most of
> the crypt be Harbingers. You only need enough to ensure that you
> get one out - particularly Gisela. You could probably drop the
> Harbinger count down to six, freeing up a couple slots for other
> vamps (with titles).
The older version had Lazvernius in the deck...but without demonstration.
So...I dunno...need to think about htat some more. !Ventrue are a good
counter-part to this deck, but I don't want to weigh it down any more than I
have to.
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (19 cards)
> > 3 Auspex
> > 1 Creepshow Casino
> > 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> > 1 Lupine Assault
> > 1 Parthenon, The
> > 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> > 1 Protected Resources
> > 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> > 2 Storage Annex
>
> I think you can drop the Parthenon, since that'd put you at 18 masters,
> which is only 2 above the norm of about 16. Also, you've got a pair of
> Storage Annexes in there, and those can help you cycle a master out of
> your hand (by stuffing one in the Annex when you play it). The Lazarene
> Inquisitor doesn't look like a critical component, though perhaps it's
> useful for suppressing the table (have you found it to be useful in the
> deck? I'm curious).
Lazarene Inquisitor was stuffed in there mainly to oust someone once the
Brinksmanship fires off on them. There are plenty of other ways of
accomplishing this, anyway...so no worries on losing it. Plus, adding that
to a Creation Rites is a nice little weenie that can do some damage to the
other vamps on the table...
> You should also use The Barrens, but I always say that. :)
I've considered it, but again, I'm trying to pair this down to around 70
cards.
> And what's up with no Blood Dolls? 2-point Autarkis Persecutions
> plus a Bribes isn't going to be enough to fend off an aggressive
> predator.
No...but having the Telepathic Counters and Protected Resources in play sure
does.
> > Action (7 cards)
> > 2 Creation Rites
> > 1 Eternal Vigilance
> > 2 Revelations
> > 2 Summon Soul
>
> Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be inclined
> to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
> cards (namely, Resilience).
I think you are. The dual nature of it is VERY nice...keeps Whispers and
Resorations out, which frees up card slots for other purposes.
> > Action Modifier (27 cards)
> > 7 Bribes
> > 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> > 3 Change of Target
> > 4 Cryptic Rider
> > 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> > 3 Private Audience
> > 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
>
> You'll really want to have a couple of Daring the Dawn to ensure
> the delivery of a Brinksmanship.
Duly noted...they are going to be added this evening.
> > Political Action (14 cards)
> > 7 Autarkis Persecution
> > 2 Brinksmanship
> > 1 Cardinal Benediction
> > 1 Crusade: Houston
> > 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> > 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> > 1 Rumors of Gehenna
>
> If you go with the !Ventrue supporting cast, you'd probably want to
> swap out two Autarkis Persecutions for an Ancient Influence and a
> Political Stranglehold.
>
> You also might want to consider a Dramatic Upheaval for more table
> manipulation.
>
> OH! If you're looking to keep the table slowed down, it's hard to
> beat a Political Flux for 1. :)
>
> > Reaction (13 cards)
> > 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> > 5 Telepathic Counter
> > 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> I was gonna criticize the low amount of defense, but perhaps the
> table bloating methods help with that.
>
> I'd still swap the 2 x My Enemy's Enemy for a pair of Telepathic
> Misdirections. My Enemy's Enemy can have a de-stabilizing effect,
> which doesn't seem to be what this deck wants.
Yeah, but its free and blood gain is low in this deck. Hence its inclusion.
> > Combat (6 cards)
> > 5 Skin of Steel
> > 1 Superior Mettle
> >
> > Equipment (2 cards)
> > 1 Erebus Mask
> > 1 Sargon Fragment, The
>
> Putting in The Sargon Fragment for the sake of Maldavis seems
> excessive. :)
Yeah, but having a minion who is able to go fetch a card at any time is
nice. Its worth the cost...especially if I've run into some problems with
getting the right card (or if a critical vote was blocked earlier in the
game).
[ quoted text not captured ]
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
Why the caitiff? He's not sabbat, won't Juan Cali be better?
maybe juan and billy? Since well, they can be archbishops as well?
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (19 cards)
> 3 Auspex
> 1 Creepshow Casino
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> 1 Lupine Assault
> 1 Parthenon, The
> 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> 1 Protected Resources
> 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> 2 Storage Annex
I think a Filchware's Pawn Shop is a good idea. Since then you can equip
with your prey's equipment... =D
Zoning Board as well, since you don't want them to have any premanent
out... =D
> Action (7 cards)
> 2 Creation Rites
> 1 Eternal Vigilance
> 2 Revelations
> 2 Summon Soul
>
> Action Modifier (27 cards)
> 7 Bribes
> 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> 3 Change of Target
> 4 Cryptic Rider
> 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> 3 Private Audience
> 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
No freak drives? ACK!
> Political Action (14 cards)
> 7 Autarkis Persecution
> 2 Brinksmanship
> 1 Cardinal Benediction
> 1 Crusade: Houston
> 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> 1 Rumors of Gehenna
I think Anarch is the way to go in this deck... Fee stakes is an action
to do, Plus you can play with all the anarch cards like Anarch railroad,
Aranthebes, and The Anarch Free Press...
> Reaction (13 cards)
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> 5 Telepathic Counter
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> Combat (6 cards)
> 5 Skin of Steel
> 1 Superior Mettle
>
> Equipment (2 cards)
> 1 Erebus Mask
> 1 Sargon Fragment, The
>
> Combo (2 cards)
> 2 Spectral Divination
You know, I always thought that every HoS deck should have a CI in
there... I was thinking... What if I get a clan specfic master
card/action card? I can use it if I CI to my prey's main clan...
Player that play with Consanguineous Boon, or your prye's playing a
toreador master deck... Be funny to use his aching beauties against
him... Gaining pool from your predator's votes... Recruting a war
ghoul from the tzimize... =D Just 1 CI isn't too much, is it?
--
Direct access to this group with http://web2news.comhttp://web2news.com/?rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad
"Kulaid" <kulaid.ne...@web2news.net> wrote in message
news:3484...@web2news.com...
> > Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> > 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> > 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> > 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> > 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
>
> Why the caitiff? He's not sabbat, won't Juan Cali be better?
> maybe juan and billy? Since well, they can be archbishops as well?
Both might be good choices.
Maldavis doesn't need a title...having the superior Auspex and inferior
fortitude is enough. She can call votes and Telepathic Vote Count if
necessary...
> > Library: (90 cards)
> > -------------------
> > Master (19 cards)
> > 3 Auspex
> > 1 Creepshow Casino
> > 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> > 1 Lupine Assault
> > 1 Parthenon, The
> > 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> > 1 Protected Resources
> > 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> > 2 Storage Annex
>
> I think a Filchware's Pawn Shop is a good idea. Since then you can equip
> with your prey's equipment... =D
> Zoning Board as well, since you don't want them to have any premanent
> out... =D
Ack...Filchwares would come back to haunt me...but you may be on to
something there...gives me some actions to take...
Zoning board is a thought as well...but it puts the location back in their
deck, which is what I'm trying to deplete. Of course, it can take care of
that pesky intercept location that my predator has. Hmm...
> > Action (7 cards)
> > 2 Creation Rites
> > 1 Eternal Vigilance
> > 2 Revelations
> > 2 Summon Soul
> >
> > Action Modifier (27 cards)
> > 7 Bribes
> > 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> > 3 Change of Target
> > 4 Cryptic Rider
> > 1 Kiss of Ra, The
> > 3 Private Audience
> > 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
>
> No freak drives? ACK!
I won't be taking enough actions to warrant them. I won the game last night
without EVER tapping out all my vampires.
> > Political Action (14 cards)
> > 7 Autarkis Persecution
> > 2 Brinksmanship
> > 1 Cardinal Benediction
> > 1 Crusade: Houston
> > 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> > 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> > 1 Rumors of Gehenna
>
> I think Anarch is the way to go in this deck... Fee stakes is an action
> to do, Plus you can play with all the anarch cards like Anarch railroad,
> Aranthebes, and The Anarch Free Press...
Again, meh. The action can be blocked and thenyou have to defend the title.
Anarch Railroad and Free Press aren't necessary in this deck. Firebrand
would be nice, but again...not necessary. Aranthebes doesn't require you be
anarch for it to be in play.
> > Reaction (13 cards)
> > 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> > 5 Telepathic Counter
> > 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
> >
> > Combat (6 cards)
> > 5 Skin of Steel
> > 1 Superior Mettle
> >
> > Equipment (2 cards)
> > 1 Erebus Mask
> > 1 Sargon Fragment, The
> >
> > Combo (2 cards)
> > 2 Spectral Divination
>
> You know, I always thought that every HoS deck should have a CI in
> there... I was thinking... What if I get a clan specfic master
> card/action card? I can use it if I CI to my prey's main clan...
> Player that play with Consanguineous Boon, or your prye's playing a
> toreador master deck... Be funny to use his aching beauties against
> him... Gaining pool from your predator's votes... Recruting a war
> ghoul from the tzimize... =D Just 1 CI isn't too much, is it?
Actually, it wouldn't be as I could impersonate a HoS with Maldavis if
necessary. I was going to include a Revelation of the Sire (and still
might) for Maldavis in particular. She's just too great of a vamp to NOT be
in this deck. :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Bravo for making a milling deck that ousts!
<snip explanation>
> Crypt: (12 cards, Min: 18, Max: 28, Avg: 6.00)
> ----------------------------------------------
> 3 Gisela Harden aus dem FOR NEC 7, Harbingers of Skulls, Priscus
> 3 Egothha AUS FOR NEC obf 7, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Agaitas AUS for NEC 6, Harbingers of Skulls
> 2 Le Dinh Tho aus dom NEC 5, Nagaraja
> 2 Maldavis for pre AUS 4, Caitiff
I like the Inclusion of Maldavis... since you're going to be calling
bloat votes like Autarkis Persecution, what about swapping one of her
for a Juan or Peter?
> Library: (90 cards)
> -------------------
> Master (19 cards)
> 3 Auspex
Too many? Revelations only needs to be played at basic to force a
discard. The only other major card I could see the need for advanced
AUS is Telepathic Vote Counting...
> 1 Creepshow Casino
> 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
This is one of those cards everyone likes to include because of it's
diverse effects... is it totally necessary to your strategy?
> 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
Not sure if this is necessary... presumably one of the ways to insure
the attempt to withdraw fails?
> 1 Lupine Assault
> 1 Parthenon, The
> 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> 1 Protected Resources
> 7 Slaughterhouse, The
Suprised this is limited to only 7... in a 5 player game, you may only
ever see 4 or 5 of these... is that enough?
> 2 Storage Annex
Hmmm, presumably for saving the Lupines and Revelations? You have so
few LA's and Revs that it may not even be necessary to store them.
> Action (7 cards)
> 2 Creation Rites
Ok, I see the Autarkis' below, so that means it's just part of your
general bloat/survival strategy. But only 2 in a 90-card deck... in a
3 player game, you may not even see them... I'd say increase these or
leave them out alltogether.
> 1 Eternal Vigilance
> 2 Revelations
> 2 Summon Soul
>
> Action Modifier (27 cards)
> 7 Bribes
> 4 Call of the Hungry Dead
> 3 Change of Target
> 4 Cryptic Rider
> 1 Kiss of Ra, The
I personally would leave this out, but that's because my metagame sees
TONS of fortitude.
> 3 Private Audience
> 5 Telepathic Vote Counting
>
> Political Action (14 cards)
> 7 Autarkis Persecution
> 2 Brinksmanship
> 1 Cardinal Benediction
> 1 Crusade: Houston
> 1 Crusade: Philadelphia
> 1 Crusade: Pittsburgh
> 1 Rumors of Gehenna
Also worth consideration:
-Banishment (With Gisela's special it could be a lifesaver)
-Meddling of Semsith - my experience is that this card slows things
down a bit, which may be what you need in order to sweep tables
-Sabbat Inquisitor? (that one is iffy)
-Year of Fortune
>
> Reaction (13 cards)
> 2 My Enemy's Enemy
> 5 Telepathic Counter
> 6 Wake with Evening's Freshness
>
> Combat (6 cards)
> 5 Skin of Steel
> 1 Superior Mettle
Hmmm... no s:ce.... any particular reason?
>
> Equipment (2 cards)
> 1 Erebus Mask
> 1 Sargon Fragment, The
>
> Combo (2 cards)
> 2 Spectral Divination
Anyhow, great deck! Thanks for posting.
-Matt
Smiling Tom wrote:
> I agree with you in most of your impressive evaluation, but I guess you
> have forgotten a point: You really need yto avoid someone from SUCCESSFULLY
> retreating. Thus, Lazarene inquisitor offers you the way for that blood
> points that allows you to oust him
Ohhhhh right. :) Very good point. :)
Other options include Anarch Revolt and Templar, but yeah, Lazarene
Inquisitor is a great choice.
[ quoted text not captured ]
LSJ wrote:
> Fredrik Appelberg wrote:>> Don't forget Michael Luther, Quentin's little brother. His aus works with
>> this deck, and if he enters combat and you have Agaitas you can mill your
>> opponent's deck a little more... :)>
> Michael Luther's ability is not "drawing a replacement", so Agaitas's
> ability won't be applicable there.
>
Ah. Oh well, I just noticed that his ability only allows him to negate the
_acting_ vampire's votes, so maybe he's no good for this deck anyway. He'll
definetly go into my next ventrue-antitribu-no-votes-for-you deck though.
-- F
"Fredrik Appelberg" <fre...@mulli.nu> wrote in message
news:bb78i0$6end4$1...@ID-183559.news.dfncis.de...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Michael Luther's ability applies during any referendum. I think you're
thinking of Irregular Protocol.
> > You'll really want to have a couple of Daring the Dawn to ensure
> > the delivery of a Brinksmanship.
>
> Duly noted...they are going to be added this evening.
Question: I may be wrong about my timing, but if Daring the Dawn is
played and the action to call the vote is therefore successful,
doesn't the vampire who called it go to torpor before the referendum?
-Matt
Ped Xing wrote:
> Question: I may be wrong about my timing, but if Daring the Dawn is
> played and the action to call the vote is therefore successful,
> doesn't the vampire who called it go to torpor before the referendum?
No. The agg damage from Daring the Dawn is applied after the action resolves.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Jon Stahler wrote:
> The older version had Lazvernius in the deck...but without demonstration.
> So...I dunno...need to think about htat some more. !Ventrue are a good
> counter-part to this deck, but I don't want to weigh it down any more than I
> have to.
Well, Lazverinus is cool and all, but he's better off being in his
own deck. :) You could swap out the Egothas for Quentins, since
Egotha really doesn't do anything for the deck.
> > > Library: (90 cards)
> > > -------------------
> > > Master (19 cards)
> > > 3 Auspex
> > > 1 Creepshow Casino
> > > 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > > 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> > > 1 Lupine Assault
> > > 1 Parthenon, The
> > > 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> > > 1 Protected Resources
> > > 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> > > 2 Storage Annex
After further thought, I think you can ditch the Auspex skill cards.
You've got all of 9 cards with Auspex in the deck, and having it at
inferior for the Creation Rites weenies isn't going to be _that_
helpful. You'll either be able to handle the bleeds by leaving a
Harbinger/Ventrue/Malkavian untapped, or you'll be trying to pick
off one of your prey's seven remaining cards in their hand via
the two copies of Revelations (or Le Dinh Tho).
That'll free up some room for Blood Dolls. ;)
> > I think you can drop the Parthenon, since that'd put you at 18 masters,
> > which is only 2 above the norm of about 16. Also, you've got a pair of
> > Storage Annexes in there, and those can help you cycle a master out of
> > your hand (by stuffing one in the Annex when you play it). The Lazarene
> > Inquisitor doesn't look like a critical component, though perhaps it's
> > useful for suppressing the table (have you found it to be useful in the
> > deck? I'm curious).
>
> Lazarene Inquisitor was stuffed in there mainly to oust someone once the
> Brinksmanship fires off on them. There are plenty of other ways of
> accomplishing this, anyway...so no worries on losing it.
Definitely leave in the Lazarene Inquisitor. The blood removal is
definitely key to forcing withdrawal failure.
> Plus, adding that to a Creation Rites is a nice little weenie that can do
> some damage to the other vamps on the table...
*nod* :)
> > You should also use The Barrens, but I always say that. :)
>
> I've considered it, but again, I'm trying to pair this down to around 70
> cards.
Why? This deck has a long-haul strategy.
Also, I'm not sure why you'd willingly put the deck at 70 cards when
the Brinksmanship forced-withdrawal affects you as much as everyone
else.
> > And what's up with no Blood Dolls? 2-point Autarkis Persecutions
> > plus a Bribes isn't going to be enough to fend off an aggressive
> > predator.
>
> No...but having the Telepathic Counters and Protected Resources in play sure
> does.
The bleed defense provided by Protected Resources is mediocre at best.
Besides, in a deck with a long-term strategy such as this, Blood Dolls
would pay great dividends, and give you the option to build upon your
pool rather than just trying to tread water.
> > Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be inclined
> > to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
> > cards (namely, Resilience).
>
> I think you are. The dual nature of it is VERY nice...keeps Whispers and
> Resorations out, which frees up card slots for other purposes.
Or you could just free up the Summon Soul slots for other purposes, like
bailing yourself out of combat. ;)
But hey, you know your local metagame better than I do. :)
> > I'd still swap the 2 x My Enemy's Enemy for a pair of Telepathic
> > Misdirections. My Enemy's Enemy can have a de-stabilizing effect,
> > which doesn't seem to be what this deck wants.
>
> Yeah, but its free and blood gain is low in this deck. Hence its inclusion.
But then there're the Fortitude cards:
> > > Combat (6 cards)
> > > 5 Skin of Steel
> > > 1 Superior Mettle
Why not use a combination of Resilience and Rolling With the Punches
instead? And then rather than spend the blood on Skin of Steel or
Superior Mettle, spend it on Telepathic Misdirections?
You might want to consider Unflinching Persistence, as well, since
the maneuver can often bail you out of a lot of damage for free, too.
Looking at your crypt...ok...about half your vamps have either inferior
Fortitude or no Fortitude at all. If you're set on using skill cards
for your Creation Rites vamps, why not use Fortitude skill cards instead,
since they'd also help get your other vamps up to superior if need be?
> > > Equipment (2 cards)
> > > 1 Erebus Mask
> > > 1 Sargon Fragment, The
> >
> > Putting in The Sargon Fragment for the sake of Maldavis seems
> > excessive. :)
>
> Yeah, but having a minion who is able to go fetch a card at any time is
> nice. Its worth the cost...especially if I've run into some problems with
> getting the right card (or if a critical vote was blocked earlier in the
> game).
Yeah, if the Brinksmanships both get DI'ed, the Sargon Fragment would
pay great dividends...And given that the Sargon Fragment is a long-term
strategy card, and the deck is based on a long-term strategy, it makes
sense to include it.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 29 May 2003, Ben Peal wrote:
> Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be inclined
> to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
> cards (namely, Resilience).
It's a free +1 stealth action that does two totally different good
things. That's a helluva start. And I'd rather have that flexibility
than the one extra blood from Restoration. In decks that tend to have for
instead of FOR, it's a no brainer. It's also a little insurance for those
of us who like to go all eighty cards and toolboxy, since you can ditch
that card that you maybe have two copies of if it's not immediatley
relevant, knowing that you'll pull that Summon Soul sooner or later and
get another shot at it.
P.S. Speaking of decks which violate every one of your design criteria,
did you ever get around to trying Potent Princes?
David Cherryholmes
Duke Radiology
P.E.T. Facility
(919) 684-7714
david.che...@duke.edu
"Ben Peal" <fu...@optical.mindstorm.com> wrote in message
news:bf72a12e.0305...@posting.google.com...
> Jon Stahler wrote:
> > The older version had Lazvernius in the deck...but without
demonstration.
> > So...I dunno...need to think about htat some more. !Ventrue are a good
> > counter-part to this deck, but I don't want to weigh it down any more
than I
> > have to.
>
> Well, Lazverinus is cool and all, but he's better off being in his
> own deck. :) You could swap out the Egothas for Quentins, since
> Egotha really doesn't do anything for the deck.
Quentin costs 9 and doesn't have necromancy. Egotha has a great special
that fits with the decks theme and is popped out in two turns. I love him.
He's staying. If anyone goes, its Agaitis.
> > > > Library: (90 cards)
> > > > -------------------
> > > > Master (19 cards)
> > > > 3 Auspex
> > > > 1 Creepshow Casino
> > > > 1 Dreams of the Sphinx
> > > > 1 Lazarene Inquisitor
> > > > 1 Lupine Assault
> > > > 1 Parthenon, The
> > > > 1 Powerbase: Madrid
> > > > 1 Protected Resources
> > > > 7 Slaughterhouse, The
> > > > 2 Storage Annex
>
> After further thought, I think you can ditch the Auspex skill cards.
> You've got all of 9 cards with Auspex in the deck, and having it at
> inferior for the Creation Rites weenies isn't going to be _that_
> helpful. You'll either be able to handle the bleeds by leaving a
> Harbinger/Ventrue/Malkavian untapped, or you'll be trying to pick
> off one of your prey's seven remaining cards in their hand via
> the two copies of Revelations (or Le Dinh Tho).
>
> That'll free up some room for Blood Dolls. ;)
Good point...but superior Telepathic vote counting is what I'm worried
about.
> > > I think you can drop the Parthenon, since that'd put you at 18
masters,
> > > which is only 2 above the norm of about 16. Also, you've got a pair
of
> > > Storage Annexes in there, and those can help you cycle a master out
of
> > > your hand (by stuffing one in the Annex when you play it). The
Lazarene
> > > Inquisitor doesn't look like a critical component, though perhaps
it's
> > > useful for suppressing the table (have you found it to be useful in
the
> > > deck? I'm curious).
> >
> > Lazarene Inquisitor was stuffed in there mainly to oust someone once the
> > Brinksmanship fires off on them. There are plenty of other ways of
> > accomplishing this, anyway...so no worries on losing it.
>
> Definitely leave in the Lazarene Inquisitor. The blood removal is
> definitely key to forcing withdrawal failure.
Indeed...was my original thought process as well. I could just as easily
accomplish this by bleeding with all my minions, though.
> > Plus, adding that to a Creation Rites is a nice little weenie that can
do
> > some damage to the other vamps on the table...
>
> *nod* :)
>
> > > You should also use The Barrens, but I always say that. :)
> >
> > I've considered it, but again, I'm trying to pair this down to around 70
> > cards.
>
> Why? This deck has a long-haul strategy.
To run more efficiently. Trust me. Before I went with the whole
Brinksmanship strategy, it NEVER turned over more than 1/2 the deck.
> Also, I'm not sure why you'd willingly put the deck at 70 cards when
> the Brinksmanship forced-withdrawal affects you as much as everyone
> else.
Same reason as above. I'm not scared of Brinksmanship.
> > > And what's up with no Blood Dolls? 2-point Autarkis Persecutions
> > > plus a Bribes isn't going to be enough to fend off an aggressive
> > > predator.
> >
> > No...but having the Telepathic Counters and Protected Resources in play
sure
> > does.
>
> The bleed defense provided by Protected Resources is mediocre at best.
When you're bled by minions who would otherwise be bleeding you for 4 or 5
at a time, its not mediocre. Its all relative, I guess...but I jammed my
predator in the last game I played with it on bleed mods...he figured,
what's the point?
> Besides, in a deck with a long-term strategy such as this, Blood Dolls
> would pay great dividends, and give you the option to build upon your
> pool rather than just trying to tread water.
That's also what the Autarkis Persecutions are for...along with the Bribes.
I had two blood dolls in there at one point...might throw them back in and
see what happens. So many masters already, though.
> > > Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be
inclined
> > > to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
> > > cards (namely, Resilience).
> >
> > I think you are. The dual nature of it is VERY nice...keeps Whispers
and
> > Resorations out, which frees up card slots for other purposes.
>
> Or you could just free up the Summon Soul slots for other purposes, like
> bailing yourself out of combat. ;)
>
> But hey, you know your local metagame better than I do. :)
True. I originally had 3 restorations and 3 Whispers of the dead in the
deck. I figured I should consolidate and save some card slots for other
more useful toys.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'm going to put a lot more thought into the deck. I think it got extremely
lucky the other night. Thanks for the input!
[ quoted text not captured ]
David Cherryholmes:
> Ben Peal wrote:
> > Am I the only one who's not impressed by Summon Soul? I'd be inclined
> > to drop these in favor of a couple more Fortitude damage prevention
> > cards (namely, Resilience).
>
> It's a free +1 stealth action that does two totally different good
> things. That's a helluva start. And I'd rather have that flexibility
> than the one extra blood from Restoration. In decks that tend to have for
> instead of FOR, it's a no brainer. It's also a little insurance for those
> of us who like to go all eighty cards and toolboxy, since you can ditch
> that card that you maybe have two copies of if it's not immediatley
> relevant, knowing that you'll pull that Summon Soul sooner or later and
> get another shot at it.
Part of it is that I'm not at all impressed with the +1 hunt part of the
card. Part of it is that I don't think the whole card is significantly
better than Blood Tears of Kephran. Part of it is that I feel that
rather than spending an action and a card to throw cards back into my
deck (they don't even go to your hand...gaah!), I can just put more of
the cards that I want into the deck when I build it.
Why drop the deck down to 80, and then spend actions to build it back
up to 90, when you can just start off with a 90-card deck? If you're
looking to improve your draws, why spend actions when you can do it
with masters?
> P.S. Speaking of decks which violate every one of your design criteria,
> did you ever get around to trying Potent Princes?
Not yet...I think I'll just break down and yank some IGs out of another
deck and just get the thing up and running.
People. Trade me cards. Email me.
[ quoted text not captured ]
On 30 May 2003, Ben Peal wrote:
> Part of it is that I'm not at all impressed with the +1 hunt part of the
> card. Part of it is that I don't think the whole card is significantly
> better than Blood Tears of Kephran. Part of it is that I feel that
> rather than spending an action and a card to throw cards back into my
> deck (they don't even go to your hand...gaah!), I can just put more of
> the cards that I want into the deck when I build it.
I've been hooked up enough by netting a blood off the freak that I won't
discount gaining two as trivial; it depends a lot on which stage of the
game you're in. Putting two cards back in your deck isn't huge early on,
either, but after your library's thinned out some it can become pretty
good. It's not bad as a "toss a few in" kind of card; I'd only call it
"good" in relation to Restoration. But I also have a superstitious worship
of cards that do two good things.
> Why drop the deck down to 80, and then spend actions to build it back
> up to 90, when you can just start off with a 90-card deck? If you're
> looking to improve your draws, why spend actions when you can do it
> with masters?
You don't "drop down" from somewhere you never get. ;) I build most decks
at 80, anyway. And it's just not the same effect as Dreams and Barrens,
but those are good cards, too.
Really, if you want to wrap your brain around why this card is OK, you
just have to forget about Dominate. It's *not* good compared to "Bleed
you for six" or "Shift you for five." But if you are, say, playing
Harbingers, then you really may not have anything else more productive to
do, and tuning your hand or picking up a few blood isn't a bad way to
spend an action if you were just going to sit there, anyway. Between you
and me, I think the Harbingers really ought to be pulsing, voting,
freaking machines with grind as a fallback. With Freaks, Restorations,
Hungry Coyote, *and* Summon Soul, Egotha ought to be a Tazmanian Devil.
> > P.S. Speaking of decks which violate every one of your design criteria,
> > did you ever get around to trying Potent Princes?
>
> Not yet...I think I'll just break down and yank some IGs out of another
> deck and just get the thing up and running.
>
> People. Trade me cards. Email me.
Hell man, I'd just give you some grapples, if you were making it down to
DC next weekend. Anybody else coming from Boston? I could give some to
them (anyone else going can note that I am *not* Mr. Suitcase and, if they
are, could bring a few, too).
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Jon Stahler" <!NOSPAM!sta...@ilir.uiuc.edu> wrote in message news:<YPsBa.16742$6P6.2...@vixen.cso.uiuc.edu>...
> "Curevei" <cur...@aol.commetal> wrote in message
> news:20030529121917...@mb-m10.aol.com...
<much snippage>>
> I agree about everything EXCEPT the revelations. Brinksmanship only fires
> off when they start a round with fewer cards than a full hand, so being able
> to snipe a card from their hand is golden for Brinksmanship to work.
A year of fortune or 2? You'll have the votes to pass it, and increasing
their hand size is as useful as taking a card away is.
Matt
David Cherryholmes wrote:
> > Why drop the deck down to 80, and then spend actions to build it back
> > up to 90, when you can just start off with a 90-card deck? If you're
> > looking to improve your draws, why spend actions when you can do it
> > with masters?
>
> You don't "drop down" from somewhere you never get. ;)
I get there, and if you don't watch out, I'll get _you_ there. ;)
> Really, if you want to wrap your brain around why this card is OK, you
> just have to forget about Dominate. It's *not* good compared to "Bleed
> you for six" or "Shift you for five."
The Dominate fixation you seem to think I have is really my pathological
need for bleed bounce. As such, I have a fixation for dom/DOM and AUS.
:)
Speaking of which, I'm hoping Anarchs will help me get over some of that
fixation, as I'm really liking Dummy Corporation and some of the other
measures available to zero-to-low-intercept clans and clans without
bounce. It might not even be tournament-grade, but it could still end
up being fun.
> Between you and me, I think the Harbingers really ought to be pulsing,
> voting, freaking machines with grind as a fallback. With Freaks,
> Restorations, Hungry Coyote, *and* Summon Soul, Egotha ought to be a
> Tazmanian Devil.
Well, I guess the desire there is for them to do something more
than what the other FOR-based decks have already been doing.
They're certainly the deck-millers par excellence, so playing with
Brinksmanship is an obvious new thing to try.
The real trouble is getting a good delivery system for them.
The out-of-clan Obfuscate and Dementation aside, they've got the
problem of having Call of the Hungry Dead without the Seduction.
With the stealth options very limited, you look towards combat,
and Fortitude just doesn't cut it on its own. Maybe some sort
of FOR-Gun plan with Traps, damage prevention, and Telepathic
Tracking to hork S:CE? The Salubri and !Ventrue might want to
try it out, too - though if the !Ventrue want to do combat,
they'll typically just give Lazverinus a call.
So, you get back to thinking about deck-milling, and you don't
need much of a delivery system for it. The Slaughterhouses work
all by themselves, and then you just need to Dawn Op a Brinksmanship,
pull off a Revelations at inferior somehow (or drop a Lupine Assault),
and then Lazarine Inquisitor some blood off.
> > > P.S. Speaking of decks which violate every one of your design criteria,
> > > did you ever get around to trying Potent Princes?
> >
> > Not yet...I think I'll just break down and yank some IGs out of another
> > deck and just get the thing up and running.
> >
> > People. Trade me cards. Email me.
>
> Hell man, I'd just give you some grapples, if you were making it down to
> DC next weekend. Anybody else coming from Boston? I could give some to
> them (anyone else going can note that I am *not* Mr. Suitcase and, if they
> are, could bring a few, too).
Argh...I'm gonna be in Detroit for a week starting Tuesday for my
girlfriend's birthday. Many thanks for the offer, though.
I think my plan will be to type up deck lists for more of the decks
in my collection, then spend time dropping them all down to 60 cards
(leaving them playable), and recycling the other third of the cards
back into the deck-building pool.
Side note: If any of you out there like music in the vein of Dead Can
Dance, I very highly recommend Inner Pale Sun by Arcana. It's utterly
incredible.
If any of you out there are killer robots with death rays, looking for
ambient atmospheric music to relax/plot with, I suggest The Harrow by
Bad Sector.
[ quoted text not captured ]
"Ben Peal" <fu...@optical.mindstorm.com> wrote
>
> Argh...I'm gonna be in Detroit for a week starting Tuesday for my
> girlfriend's birthday. Many thanks for the offer, though.
Well then, perhaps you would like to play some games in Windsor this
weekend? Please email me if you are interested... I'll gather the posse.
Cheers,
WES
On 2 Jun 2003, Ben Peal wrote:
> I get there, and if you don't watch out, I'll get _you_ there. ;)
Heh heh. I was working on my Pile o' Poop for DC this weekend last night
and I actually said to my self "Self, it's poop. Might as well make it
ninety cards of poop." But then I caved and made it eighty anyway.
> The Dominate fixation you seem to think I have is really my pathological
> need for bleed bounce. As such, I have a fixation for dom/DOM and AUS.
Actually I knew that. I was just trying to establish that I don't think
it's *great*, and offered a few examples of "great".
> Speaking of which, I'm hoping Anarchs will help me get over some of that
> fixation, as I'm really liking Dummy Corporation and some of the other
> measures available to zero-to-low-intercept clans and clans without
> bounce. It might not even be tournament-grade, but it could still end
> up being fun.
I've got a deck running a mixture of Major Boons, AI's, and Dummy Corps
that's doing OK.
> The real trouble is getting a good delivery system for them.
> The out-of-clan Obfuscate and Dementation aside, they've got the
> problem of having Call of the Hungry Dead without the Seduction.
> With the stealth options very limited, you look towards combat,
> and Fortitude just doesn't cut it on its own. Maybe some sort
> of FOR-Gun plan with Traps, damage prevention, and Telepathic
> Tracking to hork S:CE? The Salubri and !Ventrue might want to
> try it out, too - though if the !Ventrue want to do combat,
> they'll typically just give Lazverinus a call.
My take on this is similiar to my take on vanilla Ventrue: *if* you
really do have a pile of freak drives, and *if* you're using Fortitude for
damage prevention, then it's not too big a deal that about half your
actions get blocked. The half that get through are going to be comperable
to what you'd succeed at if you were using card slots to get a smaller
clutch of actions through unblocked. Starting out with the bulk of your
stuff at +1 stealth, and tacking on Call, Spectral, and Kiss has been more
than sufficient in my experience.
> So, you get back to thinking about deck-milling, and you don't
> need much of a delivery system for it. The Slaughterhouses work
> all by themselves, and then you just need to Dawn Op a Brinksmanship,
> pull off a Revelations at inferior somehow (or drop a Lupine Assault),
> and then Lazarine Inquisitor some blood off.
It is true, though, that Milling is very action un-intensive.
> > > People. Trade me cards. Email me.
For Grapples? What'd be a comperable uncommon that I need.... let me
think about it.
> I think my plan will be to type up deck lists for more of the decks
> in my collection, then spend time dropping them all down to 60 cards
> (leaving them playable), and recycling the other third of the cards
> back into the deck-building pool.
That idea is soooo stolen!
<snip interesting music suggestions>
BTW, Christian had a some of his CD's with him at the SE Qualifier. Good
stuff!
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:07:11 -0400, David Cherryholmes
<david.che...@duke.edu> scrawled:
><snip interesting music suggestions>
>
>BTW, Christian had a some of his CD's with him at the SE Qualifier. Good
>stuff!
i keep pronouncing Xian as "Zee-an" in my head. :/
salem
domain:canberra http://www.geocities.com/salem_christ.geo/vtes.htm
"salem" <salem_ch...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:hi5sdvo4i23mefe00...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 10:07:11 -0400, David Cherryholmes
> <david.che...@duke.edu> scrawled:
>
>
> ><snip interesting music suggestions>
> >
> >BTW, Christian had a some of his CD's with him at the SE Qualifier. Good
> >stuff!
>
> i keep pronouncing Xian as "Zee-an" in my head. :/
You know, I used to do that too. I even thought maybe it was
"Shyen" for a while, as if it were Chinese.
Then I met Christian and finally realized what Xian meant in
his context. heh!
Josh
the roman's not for burning
On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:03:23 -0400, "Joshua Duffin" wrote:
>You know, I used to do that too. I even thought maybe it was
>"Shyen" for a while, as if it were Chinese.
>
>Then I met Christian and finally realized what Xian meant in
>his context. heh!
Heh. Of course, don't think I wasn't aware of the alternative
interpretations. :)
But yeah. 5 fewer letters to type, it's got an 'x' in it, and it was
bequeathed by a friend in college. What more can you ask for?
And Salem, think of it as the My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult
spelling, as in the Kooler Than Jesus EP. :)
Xian
i'm the looking-glass you should be able to see yourself in
On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:22:37 -0500, Xian <xi...@visi.nospam.com>
scrawled:
>On Wed, 4 Jun 2003 13:03:23 -0400, "Joshua Duffin" wrote:
>>>You know, I used to do that too. I even thought maybe it was
>>"Shyen" for a while, as if it were Chinese.
>>
>>Then I met Christian and finally realized what Xian meant in
>>his context. heh!>
>Heh. Of course, don't think I wasn't aware of the alternative
>interpretations. :)
>
>But yeah. 5 fewer letters to type, it's got an 'x' in it, and it was
>bequeathed by a friend in college. What more can you ask for?
funny thing is, i used to play the damn RPG with a guy called
"Ex-ian", which i presume was spelled Xian. Best darn GM...erm, sorry,
'storyteller' i've ever had....not that i've had many...and no, i
didn't 'have' them like _that_, you pervos.
>And Salem, think of it as the My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult
>spelling, as in the Kooler Than Jesus EP. :)
is that anything like their song 'after the flesh'? because i keep
hearing 'cause it's hot' (i think...the one that goes for about 3
days, and just has 'thrill kill thrill kill thrill kill dadada'
repeated a lot) at clubs, and the album '13 above the night' is also
way different. i liked 'after the flesh' in an 'i'm an angry youth'
kind of way. :)
[ quoted text not captured ]
On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:56:04 +1000, salem wrote:
>On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:22:37 -0500, Xian wrote:>>And Salem, think of it as the My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult
>>spelling, as in the Kooler Than Jesus EP. :)>
>is that anything like their song 'after the flesh'? because i keep
>hearing 'cause it's hot' (i think...the one that goes for about 3
>days, and just has 'thrill kill thrill kill thrill kill dadada'
>repeated a lot) at clubs, and the album '13 above the night' is also
>way different. i liked 'after the flesh' in an 'i'm an angry youth'
>kind of way. :)
You've heard of mp3s, right? :)
(Actually, that's a dangerous statement for me. Heh. I'm really torn
on the digitization of music. But that's nowhere near on-topic for
the newsgroup. Not that this music thread is much, but I'll take it
to email after this if necessary.)
The first couple of TKK albums were just kind of lost, but moving
towards the "angry youth" sound.
The following TKK albums are "angry youth"ish:
Kooler than Jesus
Confessions of a Knife (songs include club-favorites Days of Swine and
Roses, and Kooler than Jesus)
All following TKK albums were much more...I dunno. Like 13 Above the
Night. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.
Xian
really likes Blue Buddha, though...
On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 19:13:27 -0500, Xian <xi...@visi.nospam.com>
scrawled:
>On Fri, 06 Jun 2003 11:56:04 +1000, salem wrote:
>>>On Thu, 05 Jun 2003 18:22:37 -0500, Xian wrote:>>>And Salem, think of it as the My Life With the Thrill Kill Kult
>>>spelling, as in the Kooler Than Jesus EP. :)>>
>>is that anything like their song 'after the flesh'? because i keep
>>hearing 'cause it's hot' (i think...the one that goes for about 3
>>days, and just has 'thrill kill thrill kill thrill kill dadada'
>>repeated a lot) at clubs, and the album '13 above the night' is also
>>way different. i liked 'after the flesh' in an 'i'm an angry youth'
>>kind of way. :)>
>You've heard of mp3s, right? :)
Yes. they are a way for me to conveiniently backup my own legally
purchased cds in a compact manner. :)
>(Actually, that's a dangerous statement for me. Heh. I'm really torn
>on the digitization of music. But that's nowhere near on-topic for
>the newsgroup. Not that this music thread is much, but I'll take it
>to email after this if necessary.)
i have somewhat contradictory views myself. bring on the email if
you'd like...my address is actually valid and has no spam traps! :)
>The first couple of TKK albums were just kind of lost, but moving
>towards the "angry youth" sound.
>
>The following TKK albums are "angry youth"ish:
>
>Kooler than Jesus
>Confessions of a Knife (songs include club-favorites Days of Swine and
>Roses, and Kooler than Jesus)
hey, i've heard of them...hmm..
>All following TKK albums were much more...I dunno. Like 13 Above the
>Night. Sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way.
right. so i just stumbled upon one of their low-lights. no wonder it
was at the 2nd hand cd store then.....
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