Miscellaneous Qs for LSJ

- Do Baldesar or Black Cat reduce the cost of equipements when using the Pier 13 of Baltimore ? - Of the following cards, which will protect from a Rötschrek and why : Elemental Stoicism, Chill of Oblivion, Skin of Night, Jalal's special ? Thanx, Orpheus

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADfree.fr> wrote in message news:4230a524$0$16335$626a...@news.free.fr... >- Do Baldesar or Black Cat reduce the cost of equipements when using the >Pier 13 of Baltimore ? > I'm not LSJ, but I can quote him pretty good... a Google Groups Search for: "Black Cat Pier, author:LSJ" gave this: LSJ Dec 10 2000, 5:20 pm Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad From: LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> - Find messages by this author Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2000 01:15:03 GMT Local: Sun, Dec 10 2000 5:15 pm Subject: Re: Pier 13 Question cantila <rogca...@student.luth.se> wrote: > If Black Cat has the Pier, and gets an equipment through it does her > special ability make it cost 1 less? It's not an equipping action, but her > ability says: > Ability: Equipping Black Cat costs 1 less pool (but never less than 0 > pool). > And she is getitng equipped....so what does the rules say? Since Black Cat's ability doesn't hinge on equipping via an action, and since both Black Cat's ability and Pier 13 use the verb "equip", Black Cat's ability will reduce the pool cost of the equipment. -- LSJ (vtes...@white-wolf.com) VTES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and tournament rules: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes­/ > - Of the following cards, which will protect from a Rötschrek and why : > Elemental Stoicism, Chill of Oblivion, Skin of Night, Jalal's special ? > Jalal's special, only. It is the only one which continues combat... The others are 'treat agg as normal' types, which is inadequate defense for Rotschrek.. Regards, DaveZ Atom Weaver

>>- Do Baldesar or Black Cat reduce the cost of equipements when using the >>Pier 13 of Baltimore ? >> > > I'm not LSJ, but I can quote him pretty good... > Since Black Cat's ability doesn't hinge on equipping via an action, > and since both Black Cat's ability and Pier 13 use the verb "equip", > Black Cat's ability will reduce the pool cost of the equipment. And what about Baldesar, then ? I know he can't reduce the cost of disguised weapons... And sorry, I meant Jalan Aajav (or Karsh !! :) Your answer would be : no to his special too, then...

Orpheus wrote: > - Do Baldesar or Black Cat reduce the cost of equipements when using the > Pier 13 of Baltimore ? Black Cat yes. Baldesar uses "you play", so only gets the ones played in the normal manner. > - Of the following cards, which will protect from a Rötschrek and why : > Elemental Stoicism, Chill of Oblivion, Skin of Night, Jalal's special ? (Jalal has no special that could be misconstrued to protect against Rötschrek. Perhaps you meant Jalan-Aajav). The ones that cause the incoming damage not to be aggravated (or not to be incoming would work as well, I suppose). That is, none of them. Rötschrek doesn't care how the target will treat incoming agg, only that the agg is incoming. -- LSJ (vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep (remove spam trap to reply) Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

I thought that Jalal has a built in Psyche! which I heard is a defense against Rotschrek. True? Not true?

adam....@ngc.com a écrit : > I thought that Jalal has a built in Psyche! which I heard is a defense > against Rotschrek. True? Not true? True but not on-topic. Thank you Scott. Orpheus

> I thought that Jalal has a built in Psyche! which I heard is a defense > against Rotschrek. True? Not true? > > Correct, Jalal Sayad trumps Rotschreck (assuming he has blood to spend). Jalal Sayad [FN:U2] Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Assamite Group: 2 Capacity: 6 Discipline: pot CEL QUI Independent: Once each turn after completing combat, Jalal may burn 1 blood to begin another combat with the opposing minion. (Blood Cursed) Artist: Christopher Shy Jalan-Aajav's special will not work since Rotschreck doesn't care. Jalan-Aajav [BH:U2] Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Gangrel antitribu Group: 3 Capacity: 9 Discipline: ani CEL FOR POT PRO Sabbat. Black Hand Seraph: Once each round, Jalan may burn 1 blood to treat aggravated damage as normal. He gets 1 optional press each combat. Artist: James Stowe

Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: > > I thought that Jalal has a built in Psyche! which I heard is a defense > > against Rotschrek. True? Not true? > > Correct, Jalal Sayad trumps Rotschreck (assuming he has blood to spend). I wouldn't say his special "trumps" Rotschreck. I think only Sire's Index Finger and Sudden Reversal have the capability to completely negate it. However, his Psyche!-like special does allow him to continue combat, and thus prevents the torporization part of Rotschreck, though he'll still suffer from the untap portion if applicable. Jeff [ quoted text not captured ]

jeff...@pacbell.net wrote: > Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: >>Correct, Jalal Sayad trumps Rotschreck (assuming he has blood to > spend). > I wouldn't say his special "trumps" Rotschreck. I think only Sire's > Index Finger and Sudden Reversal have the capability to completely > negate it. > > However, his Psyche!-like special does allow him to continue combat, > and thus prevents the torporization part of Rotschreck, though he'll > still suffer from the untap portion if applicable. Correct. [ quoted text not captured ]

One more Q : that pesky "redirection" timing again : A Giovanni bleeds ; Dis Pater is in play. Gio says : do you redirect ? Victim says : "Do you add bleed ?" Gio says no. Now is the timing window for Dis Pater. Is there any way to add bleed after the "succesful bleed" is declared ? Any way to deflect after that added bleed ? After the use of Dis Pater is announced ? (I'd say "no" to both...). TX Orpheus

Orpheus wrote: > One more Q : that pesky "redirection" timing again : > > A Giovanni bleeds ; Dis Pater is in play. [assumed, apparently: all blocks are declined] > Gio says : do you redirect ? Translation: Gio says "no mods at this time" > Victim says : "Do you add bleed ?" Translation: <nil> -- this is a non-question -- it is asking if the Gio passes, which he must have done when asking for the redirect. > Gio says no. And then Victim says no and everyone else passes on the opportunity to play effects before the bleed is successful. > Now is the timing window for Dis Pater. Now the bleed is successful. Effects like Spying Mission, Major Boon, and Dis Pater may be applied. Acting meth goes first, so could choose Dis Pater, for example. > Is there any way to add bleed after the "succesful bleed" is declared ? Yes. Burning a Spying Mission in play, for example, or Dis Pater (card text). > Any way to deflect after that added bleed ? No. Dis Pater has the same timing as Spying Mission (played) and Major Boon. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:RB5Yd.644$qW...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net... [ quoted text not captured ] I get the Dis Pater & Spying Mission rulings, but Major Boon states that "Modifiers to the bleed amount may be played after you play this card." That would seem to imply that it's in an earlier window than Dis Pater or Major Boon. Or does the re-targeting of the bleed to the Meth playing Major Boon re-open the window for bleed modifiers? - Pat

Pat wrote: > I get the Dis Pater & Spying Mission rulings, but Major Boon states that > "Modifiers to the bleed amount may be played after you play this card." That > would seem to imply that it's in an earlier window than Dis Pater or Major > Boon. Card text: "is successfully bled." Card text goes on to add a new window of opportunity for modifiers, as you note above, which, as all explicit card text does, overrides the basic rules. > Or does the re-targeting of the bleed to the Meth playing Major Boon re-open > the window for bleed modifiers? Major Boon does not retarget the bleed. [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message news:QD7Yd.801$qf2...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > Pat wrote: >> I get the Dis Pater & Spying Mission rulings, but Major Boon states that >> "Modifiers to the bleed amount may be played after you play this card." >> That would seem to imply that it's in an earlier window than Dis Pater or >> Major Boon. > > Card text: "is successfully bled." > > Card text goes on to add a new window of opportunity for modifiers, as > you note above, which, as all explicit card text does, overrides the > basic rules. > D'oh! Golden rule of cards! How could I have missed that? :) >> Or does the re-targeting of the bleed to the Meth playing Major Boon >> re-open the window for bleed modifiers? > > Major Boon does not retarget the bleed. > Hmm... sorry if it comes across like I'm channeling Eric Chiang, but the lack of retargeting raises a few more questions: - if the Original Target Meth [OTM] has 4 vampires in his ash heap and is being bled cardlessly by merged Yong-Sun, would the Major Booning Meth [MBM] burn 5? (Guessing "yes" here.) - does the general term "modifiers" in card text include reaction cards to reduce the bleed amount? If so, does the OTM or the MBM get to play them? (No clue here.) - assuming the bleed is indeed for 5, who gets to play Archon Investigation to burn Yong-Sun Merged? OTM or MBM? Or does the OTM have to decline to play AI before the MBM is allowed to play MB? (Since AI makes the bleed unsuccessful.) - assuming a bleed of 5, who gets to play Retribution to ping Yong-Sun Merged? OTM or MBM? Thanks in advance. - Pat [ quoted text not captured ]

Pat wrote: > "LSJ" <vtesr...@TRAPwhite-wolf.com> wrote in message >>Major Boon does not retarget the bleed. > > Hmm... sorry if it comes across like I'm channeling Eric Chiang, but the > lack of retargeting raises a few more questions: > > - if the Original Target Meth [OTM] has 4 vampires in his ash heap and is > being bled cardlessly by merged Yong-Sun, would the Major Booning Meth [MBM] > burn 5? (Guessing "yes" here.) Yes. > - does the general term "modifiers" in card text include reaction cards to > reduce the bleed amount? If so, does the OTM or the MBM get to play them? > (No clue here.) OTM can play "when you are bled" modifiers (Telepathic Counter, etc.). Anyone can play "when any Meth is bled" modifiers (superior Folderol, etc.) > - assuming the bleed is indeed for 5, who gets to play Archon Investigation > to burn Yong-Sun Merged? OTM or MBM? Or does the OTM have to decline to play > AI before the MBM is allowed to play MB? (Since AI makes the bleed > unsuccessful.) The latter, but not with the "since". The "since" is "since the bleed is already at resolution." The only things allowed are changed to the bleed amount. No AI, redirection, etc. > - assuming a bleed of 5, who gets to play Retribution to ping Yong-Sun > Merged? OTM or MBM? Neither. OTM lost no pool, MBM wasn't bled. [ quoted text not captured ]