If vamp 1 rushes vamp 2 with Deep Song, can Vamp 2's controller Hidden
Lurker with another vamp after said combat? I'm 100% sure that the
answer is no, but the wording on Hidden Lurker is odd and I've seen
stranger rulings.
Name: Hidden Lurker
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Discipline: Obfuscate
Only usable by a ready untapped vampire other than the acting minion.
Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a
blocking minion.
[obf] Tap this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking
minion. The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot
strike.
[OBF] As above, with an optional press.
Name: Deep Song
Cardtype: Action
Discipline: Animalism
[ani] (D) Bleed at +1 bleed.
[ANI] Frenzy. (D) Enter combat with and tap a ready vampire controlled
by another Methuselah. In that combat, that vampire is considered the
acting minion.
Artist: Jeremy McHugh
Thank you in advanced, Pullen, wandering Prince.
On May 4, 3:32 pm, Pullen <mattp3...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> If vamp 1 rushes vamp 2 with Deep Song, can Vamp 2's controller Hidden
> Lurker with another vamp after said combat? I'm 100% sure that the
> answer is no,
Correct, for two reasons.
The undebatable one is that Vamp 1 is not blocking.
The other is that Vamp 2 is only considered the "acting vamp" in
combat, and HL is not played in combat. After combat, vamp 2 cannot
play HL, since vamp 2 is not the acting vampire (and is not controlled
by the acting vampire's controller).
> but the wording on Hidden Lurker is odd and I've seen
> stranger rulings.
Sounds like you're less than 100% sure, then. :-)
[ quoted text not captured ]
[ quoted text not captured ]> > Thank you in advanced, Pullen, wandering Prince.- Dölj citerad text -
>
> - Visa citerad text -
remotely related question.
Vamp a rushes vamp b (with lets say deep song), Gets blocked by vamp c
and vamp a plays Form of mist and chooses to continue the action.
How/when should Meth A (who controls vamp a) play a hidden lurker with
vamp d to enter combat with vamp c and still have vamp a rush vamp b
(if it is possible at all).
1 - After the combat between vamp a and vamp c but before any other
block attempts by Meth b (who controls vamp b and vamp c).
2 - Meth A can play it at any given time during the action after the
initial combat outside of combat since hidden lurker says "Only usable
after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking
minion. " and doesnt specifiy immediately after combat.
3 - Meth A can only play hidden lurker after combat between vamp a and
vamp b (the combat between the acting minion and the minion targeted
by deep song) since the card is supposed to be played in the "end of
action window"
4 - Something I havent thought of.
If the answer is 1 or 2 (or perhaps 4) can vamp a then play freak
drive in the "end of action" step as long as hidden lurker isnt played
after the combat between vamp a and vamp b?
/tomas
On May 5, 10:15 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> Vamp a rushes vamp b (with lets say deep song), Gets blocked by vamp c
> and vamp a plays Form of mist and chooses to continue the action.
> How/when should Meth A (who controls vamp a) play a hidden lurker with
> vamp d to enter combat with vamp c and still have vamp a rush vamp b
> (if it is possible at all).
It is not possible.
Starting a new combat will disrupt the effect ("continue the action")
of Form of Mist.
[ quoted text not captured ]
to clarify, the correct time to play Hidden Lurker is immediately after
the block-combat between a and c, before calling for further block
attempts on the continued action. Then, as LSJ says above, Hidden Lurker
will stop Form of Mist continuing the action.
--
salem
(replace 'hotmail' with 'gmail' to email)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Thank you (to both of you)
the question arose since hidden lurker doesnt specify _immediately
after and "just" after which I see isnt a problem in most cases, but
if/when the action continues after the combat there is nothing (I
find) that says hidden lurker can only be played immediately after the
combat except this clarification from LSJ which is as good as gravy.
/ Tomas
[ quoted text not captured ]
The alternative to interpreting it as "just after" is to allow, say,
any minion with flight to play "As the Crow" to untap (once any action
is successful in the game, that is).
[ quoted text not captured ]> is successful in the game, that is).- Dölj citerad text ->
> - Visa citerad text -
I have to respectfully disagree since action modifiers per default can
only be played by the acting (and untapped) minions unless stated
otherwise on the card
I can see a scenario where vamp a does x action and gets blocked by
vamp b. Vamp a plays form of mist PRO and continues the action and
then vamp c tries to block him. Meth a (who controls vamp a and vamp
d) doesnt want vamp a to be blocked by vamp c and in response uses
vamp d to play hidden lurker to enter combat with vamp b effectively
ending vamp a:s action with a liberal interpretation of your
explanation above.
If the card had in print that it was usable only immediately after
combat (or it would have been a combat card instead starting a new
combat ie Coordinate attacks)
I would argue that it would be harder to misinterpret.
thanks
Tomas
On May 6, 10:55 am, Abdul alHazred <hallonkul...@yahoo.se> wrote:
> On 6 Maj, 15:00, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> > The alternative to interpreting it as "just after" is to allow, say,
> > any minion with flight to play "As the Crow" to untap (once any action
> > is successful in the game, that is).- Dölj citerad text -
>> I have to respectfully disagree since action modifiers per default can
> only be played by the acting (and untapped) minions unless stated
> otherwise on the card
Acting, correct. But that fits with my statement above.
(Untapped is not necessary. Indeed, since the acting minion taps at
declaration, most Modifiers are played by tapped minions).
So some action has been successful.
At every point in the game after that successful action, you are at a
point "after a successful action".
So, when a flighted minion announced a Domain Challenge, he could play
"As the Crow" to untap, since it is "after a successful action".
Anyway, there are plenty of examples of "after" in the body of card
text that would be obviously problematic if you took "after" to mean
"at any arbitrary time after" instead of "just after".
> I can see a scenario where vamp a does x action and gets blocked by
> vamp b. Vamp a plays form of mist PRO and continues the action and
> then vamp c tries to block him. Meth a (who controls vamp a and vamp
> d) doesnt want vamp a to be blocked by vamp c and in response uses
> vamp d to play hidden lurker to enter combat with vamp b effectively
> ending vamp a:s action with a liberal interpretation of your
> explanation above.
Um, it's your explanation, but yes.
Under the official explanation, it doesn't work.
> If the card had in print that it was usable only immediately after
> combat (or it would have been a combat card instead starting a new
> combat ie Coordinate attacks)
> I would argue that it would be harder to misinterpret.
Yes. Each card could have printed on it a complete set of rulings
regarding the card, too, and be harder to misinterpret.
But there's no foolproof card text.
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'd recommend playing Hidden Lurker first, instead of paying for Form
of Mist and then playing Hidden Lurker (unless you want to lose 1
blood on your vampire, of course).