She is a great character, present in the "non-canonical" Masquerade of the
Red Death and Horizon War trilogies, but then :
- there is no more official Vampire: Masquerade line
- in those books are also present Enzo Giovanni and his "Grimm Brothers"
So why not make a vampire out of her (and maybe a few more Giovanni) ?
She would look something like :
Madeleine, the Dagger of the Giovanni
Independent 8-Cap
POT/CEL/PRO/Dom/Nec
Madeleine has +1 stealth on all enter combat D actions. If she tries to
enter combat with another minion, put a "Vengeance" counter on that minion ;
Madeleine cannot try to enter combat with any other minion with a D action
until the minion with the Vengeance counter is burned.
Other interesting clan members appearing in those stories would be her sire
:
Pietro Giovanni, Master of the Mausoleum
9-Cap independent with 2 votes
D actions against Pietro cost an additionnal pool.
DOM/NEC/POT/PRE/Aus
If the Mausoleum, Venice in in play while Pietro is controlled, Pietro has
+1 vote and tapping the Mausoleum, Venice gives 1 more vote.
and her cousins Cesare and Montifloro could also be interesting.
--
Orpheus
Nearly made it to LSJ's Killfile !!
Orpheus wrote:
> She is a great character, present in the "non-canonical" Masquerade of the
> Red Death and Horizon War trilogies, but then :
>
> - there is no more official Vampire: Masquerade line
> - in those books are also present Enzo Giovanni and his "Grimm Brothers"
Enzo's at least canon, though (and I believe the Grimm Brothers are in
the same source, or am I mistaken about that?
> So why not make a vampire out of her (and maybe a few more Giovanni) ?
>
> She would look something like :
>
> Madeleine, the Dagger of the Giovanni
> Independent 8-Cap
> POT/CEL/PRO/Dom/Nec
> Madeleine has +1 stealth on all enter combat D actions. If she tries to
> enter combat with another minion, put a "Vengeance" counter on that minion ;
> Madeleine cannot try to enter combat with any other minion with a D action
> until the minion with the Vengeance counter is burned.
As opposed to all enter combat non-D actions? Easier to just phrase it
as 'actions to enter combat with another minion', using Michael
DiCarlo's text as a template.
The vengeance counter idea is nice, but it'd have to be extremely
wordy to be properly phrased - something like: "When she declares an
action to enter combat with another minion, give that minion a
Vengeance counter. Actions declared by her to enter combat with
minions can only target those that have Vengeance counters if any are
in play." Which is pretty long text to slap into a tiny text box
(along with the line about stealth and her sect.)
Plus you'd need to have it worded along those lines to account for
this problem: Under your wording, once she slaps a counter on someone,
if that player is ousted she cannot rush anymore for the game, because
that minion isn't burned (it's removed from the game) - or similarly
if the counter-minion gets Banished or contested or Descends into
Darkness or otherwise leaves play in a non-burn fashion. So the
wording would have to (lengthily) restrict her to rushing minions with
counters given the chance to.
Possibly easier/more flavorful to do the following instead:
"Madeleine can enter combat with any minion she has opposed in combat
since the start of your last turn as a +1 stealth (D) action."
That way, she can perpetually rush one target every turn (unless she
starts blocking a bunch, or getting blocked, in which case she can get
vengeance on them instead!) No need to slap 'during X do Y', since
this is an action granted by a card in play.
> Orpheus
-John Flournoy
John Flournoy wrote:
> Enzo's at least canon, though (and I believe the Grimm Brothers are in
> the same source, or am I mistaken about that?
They're from a different source, but are canon, yes.
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
tn_2j.48248$eY.2...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
[ quoted text not captured ]
Doesn't Madeleine and / or Pietro also appear in that other source ?
--
Orpheus
---------
"It's been a hard day's night ! BRAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS !!!"
The Zombeatles, "A Hard Day's Night of the Living Dead.
Orpheus wrote:
> "LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
> tn_2j.48248$eY.2...@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...>> John Flournoy wrote:>>> Enzo's at least canon, though (and I believe the Grimm Brothers are in
>>> the same source, or am I mistaken about that?>> They're from a different source, but are canon, yes.>
> Doesn't Madeleine and / or Pietro also appear in that other source ?
Maybe. What sources do Madeleine and Pietro appear in?
"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> a écrit dans le message de news:
2vc3j.24842$JD.1...@newssvr21.news.prodigy.net...
[ quoted text not captured ]
To my knowledge, the two cited trilogies ; I don't know about the rest.
--
Orpheus
---------
"It's been a hard day's night ! BRAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINS !!!"
The Zombeatles, "A Hard Day's Night of the Living Dead
(http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6nYs9Il7c)
On a purely curious level LSJ :-
Do you guys maintain some sort of db to locate & track all the canon
characters, or do you just end up searching the books? I'd like to
believe the former, but I can somehow imagine the WW subterreanean
grotto having various editions of various books cluttering the walls.
I know certain fans have generated 'family trees' of the various
clans, but I was just wondering.
- Shockwave
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'm not in the WW grotto area, so I have to use my own resources. WW has
graciously stocked my library with much of the VtM source material. And the
fan-generated geneologies certainly help.
In the course of development, though, I've been indexing the books I have (in
addition to the fan-made references), making the process steadily easier.
On Nov 28, 7:17 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote:
> In the course of development, though, I've been indexing the books I have (in
> addition to the fan-made references), making the process steadily easier.
Would you consider making such indices publicly available? I'm not
sure if it would bother WW to have such content posted, but they are
OK with it, I think it would be fun to see.
Ira
I think Lady Constancia is also canon, and as childe of Japheth (?)
more a Harbinger of Skulls than a Giovanni? How does one determine
the clan identity of a Cappadocian -- by allegiance, or by sire,
or...?
[ quoted text not captured ]
I'd presume that every Vampire embraced by Augustus after becoming 3rd
Generation (and ergo, having him as their Antediluvian) should be Clan
Giovanni, whilst anyone either embraced by him whilst 4th and/or
embraced by one of the Cappadochians should be of Clan Cappadochian.
This is going off the theory that the main difference in all honesty
between a Clan & a Bloodline is the presence of shared 3rd Generation
Sire.
(Double post, naughty me)
Additionally, on that logic Lady Constancia should be a Cappadocian
(and indeed, probably looks like one beneath the hood) but the point
is that V:TES cards have 'lied' about their Clan before, and the Clan
they portray is merely the one everyone believes them to be, not the
one they actually are.
Marcus Vitel, Melinda Galbraith & Petaniqua spring to mind. In all
honesty, I'm surprised to that Kemintiri is Settite, and Alexis
Sororokin can't just pick her Clan each turn. ;)
- Shockwave
>
> Marcus Vitel, Melinda Galbraith & Petaniqua spring to mind.
Indeed! I've been thinking we might see Advanced Lady Constancia as a
Harbinger of Skulls.
[ quoted text not captured ]
Well, she's not a Harbinger because they're (afaik) only those
Cappadochians that survived in the deadlands for the intervening 500
years. But then, by that token, Augustus is bizarrely, the Giovanni
who isn't a Giovanni. ;)
[ quoted text not captured ]
Augustus is the clan founder, they're always going to be a special
case (because, unless we're taking about the original 3rd gens that
are the origins of all the bloodline/clan separation, they were a
different clan to begin with). For example, I recall that the DoC
founder never considered herself part of the clan... that was all
arranged by her childer.
I don't think we'll see Advanced Lady Constancia as a Harbinger,
because, as a Harbinger, she's Unre. And nicely enough, you can't
have both in the same deck under the grouping rule. But she can be
working for different Methuselah's in the same game. Or they could
just be different people.
As it is, Constancia's disappearance a year before the Giovanni purge
of the Cappadocians and now reappearing as a Giovanni suggests that
she may have been working with them, and not just dumped to the
deadlands early (Unre was very clearly dumped into the deadlands).
And besides, Constancia is actually the sire of at least one line of
the current Giovanni... she sired Ambrogino. So she is strongly
connected to the clan, as a sire of some of the original members who
isn't in the lineage of Augustus.
So whether Unre is infiltrating the Giovanni clan now or Constancia
was a collaborator in the purge of the other Cappadocians is up to you
(if you choose to have a story themed deck).
Brent Ross