Paulo de Castille

Oscar, dude... a Lasombra?! And he doesn't even have dementation as an out-of-clan. Did you lose another bet? ;) - Pat

Hmmm ?? And what cap is he ?? Any cool specials ?? Thanks !! Oh..and did anyone see this vamp Gravitnir (!Malkavian) ??

Paulo 4-cap Lasombra pot dom ani Special (from memory, I don't have the card in front of me): When you put him in play during your influence phase, you can move a blood from him to another Lasombra in your uncontrolled region. - Pat <pwys...@wp.pl> wrote in message news:1157004273.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

Where did you see him ? Any stats ? -- Orpheus Nearly made it to LSJ's Killfile !! "Pat" <patric...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> a écrit dans le message de news: y4ednSmweKDTyWvZ...@comcast.com... [ quoted text not captured ]

> <pwys...@wp.pl> wrote in message > news:1157004273.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... >> Hmmm ?? And what cap is he ?? Any cool specials ?? >> >> Thanks !! >> >> Oh..and did anyone see this vamp Gravitnir (!Malkavian) ?? >> > > "Pat" <patric...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message news:F7ydnWVwOp88IWvZ...@comcast.com... > Paulo > 4-cap > Lasombra > pot dom ani > > Special (from memory, I don't have the card in front of me): When you put > him in play during your influence phase, you can move a blood from him to > another Lasombra in your uncontrolled region. > > - Pat > D'oh! Top-posted... the shame. Let me write Google and get them to correct their records. ;) - Pat

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:44f6c219$0$1790$636a...@news.free.fr... > Where did you see him ? Any stats ? > > -- > Orpheus > > Nearly made it to LSJ's Killfile !! > In a box of cards that mysteriously arrived at my house yesterday. Are there any other vamps not yet spoiled? I can check my supply if so. pot-dom-ani, 4-cap When you transfer him out, you get to move one blood from him to an uncon Lasombra. BTW, thanks to WW for making the text on Lasombra actually readable in this expansion. :) In other expansions with the new layout, there has always been too little contrast for me. Let's hope the Malks get the same treatment in the next Cam expansion. - Pat

> In a box of cards that mysteriously arrived at my house yesterday. > > Are there any other vamps not yet spoiled? I can check my supply if so. Lots of them. Please check the thread "3rd Ed spoiled compiled" and feel free to add !! :-) -- Orpheus ----------------------- I'm dead serious ! Well, mostly dead...

<pwys...@wp.pl> wrote in message news:1157004273.4...@b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Hmmm ?? And what cap is he ?? Any cool specials ?? > > Thanks !! > > Oh..and did anyone see this vamp Gravitnir (!Malkavian) ?? > Gravitnir !Malk, 10-cap, g4 AUS CEL DEM OBF VIC Sabbat Priscus During a political action, if Gravitnir is ready, he may burn a blood to force the acting vampire to abstain (this can cancel that vampire's votes).

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:44f6cebc$0$1771$636a...@news.free.fr... >> In a box of cards that mysteriously arrived at my house yesterday. >> >> Are there any other vamps not yet spoiled? I can check my supply if so. > > Lots of them. Please check the thread "3rd Ed spoiled compiled" and feel > free to add !! :-) > -- > > Oi, way too many messages to sort through in that thread... glad to post specific vamps if anybody asks, though. - Pat

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm interested in the non-starter Tzi/!Brujah/!Malk vampires, the unspoiled (From my notes) are as follows: DeSalle Brujah antitribu Lord Aaron Wesley Wilkshire Brujah antitribu Patrick Brujah antitribu Jackie Malkavian antitribu Marta Malkavian antitribu Stavros Malkavian antitribu Darvag, The Butcher of Rus Tzimisce Guedado Tzimisce Ilias cel Frumos Tzimisce Terrifisto Tzimisce I'm thinking most of them are support-ish smaller-cap vamps, or else someone would have been more excited about them and spoiled them already. Merlin Merlin

> Oi, way too many messages to sort through in that thread... glad to post > specific vamps if anybody asks, though. Not so many messages, most of them are here : http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/browse_frm/thre ad/b8dd60d80143eb7c/1ab81bc222c60134?lnk=gst&q=3rd+ed+spoilers&rnum=1#1ab81b c222c60134 And I'd especially like to see all the Lasombras... -- Orpheus ----------------------- My story doesn't happen in the sound of the notes but in the silence between them. That is where the magic happens. Echo

"Merlin" <hallofha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:1157029759.2...@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > > Pat wrote: >> "Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message >> news:44f6cebc$0$1771$636a...@news.free.fr... >> >> In a box of cards that mysteriously arrived at my house yesterday. >> >> >> >> Are there any other vamps not yet spoiled? I can check my supply if >> >> so. >> > >> > Lots of them. Please check the thread "3rd Ed spoiled compiled" and >> > feel >> > free to add !! :-) >> > -- >> > >> > >> >> Oi, way too many messages to sort through in that thread... glad to post >> specific vamps if anybody asks, though. >> >> - Pat > > I'm interested in the non-starter Tzi/!Brujah/!Malk vampires, the > unspoiled (From my notes) are as follows: > > DeSalle Brujah antitribu 7-cap, CEL POT PRE, g4 Sabbat. When DeSalle is acting, a Sabbat vampire may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept once that action. +1 stealth. > Lord Aaron Wesley Wilkshire Brujah antitribu 8-cap, ani obf CEL POT PRE, g4 Sabbat, Black Hand. Frenzy cards played on Aaron cost an additional blood or pool. Q: Is the additional cost always paid in blood for a minion card and pool for a master card? > Patrick Brujah antitribu 4-cap, pre POT, g4 Sabbat. > Jackie Malkavian antitribu 3-cap, DEM, g4 Sabbat. > Marta Malkavian antitribu 3-cap, aus dem, g4 Sabbat. When Marta diablerizes an older vampire, she gains a blood (after receiving a master: Discpline card, if any). > Stavros Malkavian antitribu 7-cap, dem AUS OBF PRE, g4 Sabbat priscus. > Darvag, The Butcher of Rus Tzimisce Don't have him. > Guedado Tzimisce 4-cap, aus obf vic, g4 Laibon. > Ilias cel Frumos Tzimisce 3-cap, aus vic, g4 Sabbat. > Terrifisto Tzimisce 10-cap, cel obt ANI AUS FOR VIC, g4 Sabbat Archbishop of Detroit. During a referendum called by Terrifisto, he may burn a blood when the votes are tallied to inflict 2 damage on a ready vampire who voted against the referendum. > I'm thinking most of them are support-ish smaller-cap vamps, or else > someone would have been more excited about them and spoiled them > already. > Largely true, but Terrifisto & Aaron seem pretty hot! - Pat

Pat wrote: > "Merlin" <hallofha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message > > Lord Aaron Wesley Wilkshire Brujah antitribu > > 8-cap, ani obf CEL POT PRE, g4 > Sabbat, Black Hand. Frenzy cards played on Aaron cost an additional blood or > pool. > > Q: Is the additional cost always paid in blood for a minion card and pool > for a master card? It's up to the Methuselah playing the card. Naturally, master cards and cards played by allies cannot cost blood, so that "choice" will always be pool. But cards played by vampires can be played at increased blood cost or increased pool cost, at the whim of the Methuselah controlling the vampire playing the card.

[ quoted text not captured ] Yeah, it's nice to see the G4 Archbishop of D as well. I'm sure my Tzimisce-loving fellow Michiganians will enjoy this. Thanks for the info. Oh...and Orpheus wanted spoilers on the unspoiled Lasombra, if you feel like making his day as well here they are... Andrew Emory Lasombra Conrad Adoula Lasombra Leila Monroe Lasombra Lucy Markowitz Lasombra Virginie, Prodigy Lasombra Merlin

"Merlin" <hallofha...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:1157032241.2...@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... > Yeah, it's nice to see the G4 Archbishop of D as well. I'm sure my > Tzimisce-loving fellow Michiganians will enjoy this. Thanks for the > info. Oh...and Orpheus wanted spoilers on the unspoiled Lasombra, if > you feel like making his day as well here they are... > > Andrew Emory Lasombra 5-cap, aus dom pot OBT, g4 Sabbat bishop. Dunno if he's canon from RPG material, but he features prominently in the Lasombra Clan Trilogy. (The one where they spoiled Lucita at the end, IMO.) > Conrad Adoula Lasombra 8-cap, ani cel DOM OBT POT, g4 Sabbat. While Conrad is acting, reaction cards cost younger vampires an additional blood to play. Despite the given name, the picture is of a female. > Leila Monroe Lasombra 4-cap, dom obt pre, g4 Sabbat. Leila may change the sect of an anarch vampire with no blood to Sabbat as a +1 stealth (D) action. Very non-Lasombra-esque picture, if you ask me. Guess it takes all kinds to make a clan. :) > Lucy Markowitz Lasombra 3-cap, dom obt, g4 Sabbat. More Lasombresque, although she does have Kiasyd ears. :) > Virginie, Prodigy Lasombra 6-cap, obt DOM POT, g4 Sabbat bishop. Once during each action, Virginie may burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed. - Pat

[ quoted text not captured ] Thanks Pat ! I must say I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of Lasombra Archbishops in 3rd Ed. Looks like the Clan went more the S'n'B way, and that isn't too good in my book. OTOH, a few midcap bishops isn't bad. Well, we'll see but i predict that the G2 Lasombras won't be given for dead yet (and no one still gets even close to Gratiano...). -- Orpheus --------------- "When a true genius appears, you can know him by this sign: that all the dunces are in a confederacy against him." Jonathan Swift

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006, Orpheus wrote: > I must say I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of Lasombra Archbishops in > 3rd Ed. Looks like the Clan went more the S'n'B way, and that isn't too good > in my book. Pat's list isn't comprehensive. There's at least one Lasombra Archbishop in the set and another titled fatty (archbishop or cardinal, I think). I think one of them has NEC and one of them has FOR, so look for some fun discipline combos. > OTOH, a few midcap bishops isn't bad. They are if someone's playing Inquisition!* > Well, we'll see but i predict that the G2 Lasombras won't be given for dead > yet (and no one still gets even close to Gratiano...). In general the vampires in more recent sets seem totally playable without wallpapering the old guys. Nice job by the design team. Matt Morgan * You know, that card in the !Gangrel starter that nobody has ever played ever.

Orpheus wrote: > I must say I'm somehow disappointed by the lack of Lasombra Archbishops in > 3rd Ed. Looks like the Clan went more the S'n'B way, and that isn't too good > in my book. > > OTOH, a few midcap bishops isn't bad. > > Well, we'll see but i predict that the G2 Lasombras won't be given for dead > yet (and no one still gets even close to Gratiano...). Group 2 Lasombra was awkward because they they had a really weak spread of mid-caps, and a whole lot of super-good fatties (loaded with tons and tons of titles). The large vampires were superb, but they lacked proper mid-cap support (which was good because it kept things in balance). Based on the spoilers for 3rd Edition and from the Group 3/4 vampires we've previously seen, Group 4 has an excellent array of mid-caps and far fewer fatties (which may explain the lower prevalence of Archbishop titles). Anyway, you've already got a Lasombra Prince so stop complaining! ;-)

Pat wrote: > > Conrad Adoula Lasombra > > 8-cap, ani cel DOM OBT POT, g4 > Sabbat. While Conrad is acting, reaction cards cost younger vampires an > additional blood to play. > > Despite the given name, the picture is of a female. Hm. There's a "Dominique" in this set that has a very masculine picture. Maybe they were switched? -- Jason

"Jadasc" <jad...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1157039750....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Seems plausible; they're both fairly generic, so they could easily be swapped. - Pat

"Pat" <patric...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message news:-YSdnR_yVviQkWrZ...@comcast.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Apparently "Conrad" Adoula is a canon vampire and is female; Conrad is a nickname and her original name was Makemba Adoula Demba. I wonder if she took Conrad in reference to Joseph Conrad? She's apparently from the Congo. (All this I learned from the Litanies du Sang site, but having read it in Google-to-English translation I'm not totally confident in my interpretation.) Dominique, meanwhile, is I believe both a male and female name in France (and maybe elsewhere too). Josh lucita in the sky with diamonds, eh?

[ quoted text not captured ] lol. I wanna complaiiiiiin, please !! No, seriously, with each new release I hope only one thing : that new combinations will not only be possible, but viable enough to compete with the strongest available archetypes. Loving the Lasombra, I was looking for enough vamps to do one of the following : - more titled with Pot + Pre ; Melinda Galbraith fits this, but is expensive, has inf Obt, and the global crypt in G2 still seems better to me than G4 (as of now, and what I know of 3rd Ed) - enough titled not necessarily with Pre to allow a non-Pre Lasombra vote deck : that would require some 7-8 caps with 2 votes, as the Ventrue Old School for instance. If there are none I'll be disappointed : did we really need such a good stealth-bleed crypt from the most political Sabbat Clan, which, as you said, had a much too big voting crypt in G2 ? -- Orpheus ------------------- "- You got married ? - Yes. - Why ? - Why do people get married ? - Passive aggressive neurosis." Matt Murdock and Natasha Romanovna

> Apparently "Conrad" Adoula is a canon vampire and is female; Conrad is a > nickname and her original name was Makemba Adoula Demba. I wonder if she > took Conrad in reference to Joseph Conrad? She's apparently from the Congo. > (All this I learned from the Litanies du Sang site, Great site ! > but having read it in > Google-to-English translation I'm not totally confident in my > interpretation.) Must have been quite a laugh. But what you say here seems exact. > Dominique, meanwhile, is I believe both a male and female > name in France (and maybe elsewhere too). Absolutely ! > Josh > > lucita in the sky with diamonds, eh? Great sig mate ! :-) -- Orpheus ------------------------- "You'll regret being so damn abusive when the electric UFO gods transphase in from dimension ten to appoint me manager of the universe". The Drummer, in Planetary.

"Joshua Duffin" <joshduff...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message news:4lohptF...@individual.net... [ quoted text not captured ] The top of the page says "Surnoms et ou titres : Conrad," and a later section states "Dans les années 20, elle prend le nom de Conrad, puis part pour le nouveau Monde." (I think this translates as "In the 1920's, the took the name Conrad, then left for the new world.") Maybe Orph or another francophone could let us know for sure, but it kinda sounds like she took the last name Conrad? As for the other, I've never heard of Dominique (with the "que") being a male name, but that's just me. All is probably right the with vampiric images of the world. :) - Pat

Joshua Duffin wrote: > Apparently "Conrad" Adoula is a canon vampire and is female; Conrad is a > nickname and her original name was Makemba Adoula Demba. Actually, her original name was "Demba Makemba Adoula". Clanbook Lasombra Revised, p. 98

"Joshua Duffin" <joshduff...@SPAM.gmail.com> wrote in message news:4lohptF...@individual.net... > > "Pat" <patric...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message > news:-YSdnR_yVviQkWrZ...@comcast.com... >> "Jadasc" <jad...@gmail.com> wrote in message >> news:1157039750....@m79g2000cwm.googlegroups.com... >>> >>> Pat wrote: >>> >>>> > Conrad Adoula Lasombra >>>> >>>> 8-cap, ani cel DOM OBT POT, g4 >>>> Sabbat. While Conrad is acting, reaction cards cost younger vampires an >>>> additional blood to play. >>>> >>>> Despite the given name, the picture is of a female. >>> >>> Hm. There's a "Dominique" in this set that has a very masculine >>> picture. Maybe they were switched? >>> -- Jason >>> >> >> Seems plausible; they're both fairly generic, so they could easily be >> swapped. > > Apparently "Conrad" Adoula is a canon vampire and is female; Conrad is a > nickname and her original name was Makemba Adoula Demba. I wonder if she > took Conrad in reference to Joseph Conrad? She's apparently from the > Congo. Full marks, Mr. Duffin! From the Clanbook that I just bought at DriveThroughRPG: "In the 1920's, she began calling herself "Conrad" in a quiet personal nod to a Polish-English writer who made a deep impression on her. He'd been to her homeland and seen the same horrors she had, ...." Interestingly, she's 10th gen with Obten 5, Pot 1, Obf 3, and Dom 2, so the VTES version is a little more pumped up than the RPG version. - Pat

> The top of the page says "Surnoms et ou titres : Conrad," and a later > section states "Dans les années 20, elle prend le nom de Conrad, puis part > pour le nouveau Monde." (I think this translates as "In the 1920's, the took > the name Conrad, then left for the new world.") > > Maybe Orph or another francophone could let us know for sure, but it kinda > sounds like she took the last name Conrad? Perfect translation, my friend, as you already established. ;-) > As for the other, I've never heard of Dominique (with the "que") being a > male name, but that's just me. In french it will be written the same way for male and female, not like in english with a "c". > All is probably right the with vampiric images of the world. :) Probably. :-) [ quoted text not captured ]

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote in message news:1157043484....@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Probably the English vs non-English arrangements of surnames vs given names tripping me up - I must have gotten it backwards looking at Litanies du Sang. :-) Josh coeur de ténèbres

"Pat" <patric...@NOSPAMcomcast.net> wrote in message news:CICdnVQa5LXPhWrZ...@comcast.com... >>>> Pat wrote: >>>> >>>>> > Conrad Adoula Lasombra >>>>> >>>>> 8-cap, ani cel DOM OBT POT, g4 >>>>> Sabbat. While Conrad is acting, reaction cards cost younger vampires >>>>> an >>>>> additional blood to play. > Full marks, Mr. Duffin! From the Clanbook that I just bought at > DriveThroughRPG: > > "In the 1920's, she began calling herself "Conrad" in a quiet personal nod > to a Polish-English writer who made a deep impression on her. He'd been to > her homeland and seen the same horrors she had, ...." Thank you, I'll be here all week. Don't forget to tip your waiters! > Interestingly, she's 10th gen with Obten 5, Pot 1, Obf 3, and Dom 2, so > the VTES version is a little more pumped up than the RPG version. And less obfuscatey! Though admittedly I've never found it all that useful to use Obt and Obf stealth in the same deck. btw, on "Dominique", think of Dominique de Villepin for a male example with the -que. (French Prime Minister at the moment.) I guess the "Dominic" spelling is non-Gallic. :-) Josh the horror! the horror!

Hmmm...from what I've seen so far - there are no 10-cap Toreador Antitribu (or I missed it), there is only one 10-cap Malkavian Antitribu and the last Tzimisce - Darvag is still unspoiled Someone fix it please !! :D

I just skimmed through this thread and noticed Josh and LSJ already provided info on the congolese Conrad girl (man, it seems like ages since I read Heart of Darkness and made a paper on it...), but didn't see anyone answer Pat's question about Andrew. So bear with me if it has already been posted, please. Pat escreveu: > > Andrew Emory Lasombra > > 5-cap, aus dom pot OBT, g4 > Sabbat bishop. > > Dunno if he's canon from RPG material, but he features prominently in the > Lasombra Clan Trilogy. (The one where they spoiled Lucita at the end, IMO.) He is canon indeed, and a paraplegic embraced by Conrad to boot. His Embrace is the bulk of the intro fiction of the Revised Lasombra Clanbook. I'm pretty sure I've seen him somewhere else besides the clanbook and the Trilogy (which I didn't read after all). Maybe the Guide to the Sabbat? I'll check later. Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

"Fabio 'Sooner' Macedo" <fabio....@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1157066912....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Thx, Fabio. :) - Pat

On Thu, 31 Aug 2006 pwys...@wp.pl wrote: > Hmmm...from what I've seen so far - there are no 10-cap Toreador > Antitribu (or I missed it), there is only one 10-cap Malkavian > Antitribu and the last Tzimisce - Darvag is still unspoiled Melinda Galbraith advanced is a 10 cap Toreador antitribu. She's still a 10 cap Toreador antitribu after she's merged even. I'm sure you'll find her spoiled elsewhere. Yes, the set seems to have only one 10 cap !Malk. He's probably not so great compared to Louhi unless you're using his out of clan disciplines (CEL and VIC), although it's probably pretty tough for younger vampires to pass votes with him around. Darvag, The Butcher of Rus 8 capacity Tzimisce Group 4 aus pot pro ANI VIC Sabbat. Black Hand: Darvag may burn a location as a (D) action. He shares two out of clan disciplines with Count Vlad (see preview page), but is probably pricey as a support vamp. May bring something new to a Black Hand deck though and that ability isn't bad at all. Personally, I think I like Fortitude on my Tzimsice. Matt Morgan

Dang !! I thought Darvag was at least a 9-cap...:( Still, what about this vamp : Klaus Konrecht Toreador antitribu I didn't see him spoilered anywhere, so if someone knows any details about him please share !! :)

<pwys...@wp.pl> wrote in message news:1157095102....@p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] Klaus Konrecht Toreador antitribu 8, for pot AUS CEL PRE cardinal See the "need informations" thread for more vamps. - Pat

ok, I noticed him there about a minute ago :p... This still leaves us with two !Ventrue - Polly Kay Fisher and Laszlo Mirac

[ quoted text not captured ] Polly Kay Fisher 8 capacity Ventrue antitribu Group 4 for pot AUS DOM THA Sabbat Archbishop of New York. Laszlo Mirac 10 capacity Ventrue antitribu Group 4 cel obf vic AUS DOM FOR Sabbat bishop: When Laszlo calls a referendum, he may choose a younger vampire. That vampire cannot cast votes in that referendum. +1 bleed. Matt Morgan

[ quoted text not captured ] Thanks, Matt. There are very few unspoiled cards now: Margarite Pander Antonio d'Erlette Tremere antitribu Black Forest Base R Esbat C Any takers? Merlin

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Merlin wrote: > There are very few unspoiled cards now: > > Margarite Pander > Antonio d'Erlette Tremere antitribu > Black Forest Base R > Esbat C Margarite 1 capacity Pander Group 4 obt Sabbat: Any Tzimisce controlled by another Methuselah may enter combat with Margarite as a (D) action. Antonio d'Erlette 5 capacity Tremere antitribu Group 4 dom for pot THA Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay cost as normal). Esbat +1 stealth action. Requires a Sabbat vampire. Move 2 blood from the blood bank to an untapped Sabbat vampore, or move 1 blood to each of two untapped Sabbat vampires. Black Forest Base is the only card in the set I don't have yet, so I don't know what it does. Matt Morgan

> Klaus Konrecht Toreador antitribu > > 8, for pot AUS CEL PRE > cardinal Are you SERIOUS ?! An 8-Cap CARDINAL ?!?! And with all those disciplines too... Well, it's great, and he will work quite well with Madame Guil in a vote'n'bruise deck... But if you're right on the stats, he's slightly on the broken side... Orpheus, totally broken.

> Antonio d'Erlette > 5 capacity Tremere antitribu > Group 4 > dom for pot THA > Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search > your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could > play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay > cost as normal). Really, is it me or do some of the 3rd Ed vamps surpass any others in terms of efficiency for cost ? This guy costs 5, has 1 sup and 3 inf (good)disciplines, and instead of a weakness he gets a potentially uber special (at least it'not as if Nephandus was a Ma.. wait !!), what's the deal here ?! > Esbat > +1 stealth action. > Requires a Sabbat vampire. > Move 2 blood from the blood bank to an untapped Sabbat vampore, or move 1 > blood to each of two untapped Sabbat vampires. Quite cornercase, hope it's an Unco and I get few of them... > Black Forest Base is the only card in the set I don't have yet, so I don't > know what it does. I wanna know !! Orpheus

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes, that's the correct text. This guy looks pretty good to me as well, but of course he's lacking any stealth discipline which may make it hard for him to get all that much done. On the other hand, an 8 cap Cardinal could almost be a support minion in a vote deck. Matt Morgan

Orpheus wrote: >>Antonio d'Erlette >>5 capacity Tremere antitribu >>Group 4 >>dom for pot THA >>Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search >>your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could >>play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay >>cost as normal). > > > Really, is it me or do some of the 3rd Ed vamps surpass any others in terms > of efficiency for cost ? This guy costs 5, has 1 sup and 3 inf > (good)disciplines, and instead of a weakness he gets a potentially uber > special (at least it'not as if Nephandus was a Ma.. wait !!), what's the > deal here ?! > Dunno. Why should he have a weakness? His special is rated as zero cost if thats what you mean but 5 caps with one superior and 3 inferior has been part of any set (i think). All the way back to Ramiel Dupre. I think he is okay and likely to see some use in fortitude and/or potence enhanced thaumaturgy combat decks as well as decks trying to use that new !tre ally that boosts bleeding (forgot the details) Frede

[ quoted text not captured ] Yes. Or a nice addition in an unblockable bleed deck. And anyway, !Ventrue have always had that problem, and still did score a few wins from time to time. I don't think that clans should have more powerful vamps because their in-clan disciplines suck (to some extent). But looking at many other 3rd ed spoils (and assuming they're exact for now) I'm afraid that there was a rise in power, right here and now... [ quoted text not captured ]

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Orpheus wrote: >> Antonio d'Erlette >> 5 capacity Tremere antitribu >> Group 4 >> dom for pot THA >> Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search >> your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could >> play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay >> cost as normal). > > Really, is it me or do some of the 3rd Ed vamps surpass any others in terms > of efficiency for cost ? This guy costs 5, has 1 sup and 3 inf > (good)disciplines, and instead of a weakness he gets a potentially uber > special (at least it'not as if Nephandus was a Ma.. wait !!), what's the > deal here ?! Yes, Nephandus (Mage) is a Mage. :) Antonio can also get Talaq, Order of Hermes Cabal, Mehemet of the Ahl-i-Batin (Mage) (although why he'd want to, I can't say), and a few others, if he changes clan first. Better yet, he can recruit a Nephandus as an action and then get another one during your influence phase. How's that for efficient? >> Esbat >> +1 stealth action. >> Requires a Sabbat vampire. >> Move 2 blood from the blood bank to an untapped Sabbat vampore, or move 1 >> blood to each of two untapped Sabbat vampires. > > Quite cornercase, hope it's an Unco and I get few of them... It's common, according to the checklist. Not that you get that many of each common in a large set like this. Doesn't seem that bad to me in, say, an Embrace deck. You make an Embrace. Next turn, the Embrace gives you the 2 blood back. I'm not sure if it would actually make the final cut, but I'd consider using it in such a deck. >> Black Forest Base is the only card in the set I don't have yet, so I don't >> know what it does. > > I wanna know !! So do I! Matt Morgan

On Fri, 1 Sep 2006, Orpheus wrote: > Yes. Or a nice addition in an unblockable bleed deck. And anyway, !Ventrue > have always had that problem, and still did score a few wins from time to > time. I don't think that clans should have more powerful vamps because their > in-clan disciplines suck (to some extent). He's good, yes. I don't think he's top-tier though. I'll probably try to cram him in my Ayo Igoli deck or something. > But looking at many other 3rd ed spoils (and assuming they're exact for now) > I'm afraid that there was a rise in power, right here and now... Do you honestly think that a Klaus Konrecht deck will compete favorably against Arika sleaze or Anson/Anneke/Alexandra Toreador Grand Ball or G2/3 Kindred Spirits starring Dolphin Black? I think the Klaus deck is going to face a serious uphill battle against those monsters and when the dust settles, the archetypes that keep winning tournaments will continue to win tournaments. I'm not seeing the power creep. I'm seeing a set that should be at best competative with what's already out there. Remember: card design is an art, not a science. Matt Morgan

> >>Antonio d'Erlette > >>5 capacity Tremere antitribu > >>Group 4 > >>dom for pot THA > >>Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search > >>your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could > >>play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay > >>cost as normal). > > > > > > Really, is it me or do some of the 3rd Ed vamps surpass any others in terms > > of efficiency for cost ? This guy costs 5, has 1 sup and 3 inf > > (good)disciplines, and instead of a weakness he gets a potentially uber > > special (at least it'not as if Nephandus was a Ma.. wait !!), what's the > > deal here ?! > > > > Dunno. Why should he have a weakness? His special is rated as zero cost > if thats what you mean but 5 caps with one superior and 3 inferior has > been part of any set (i think). All the way back to Ramiel Dupre. Ok. But his special is HUGE !! > I think he is okay and likely to see some use in fortitude and/or > potence enhanced thaumaturgy combat decks as well as decks trying to use > that new !tre ally that boosts bleeding (forgot the details) And not in Nephandus decks ? [ quoted text not captured ]

> > I think he is okay and likely to see some use in fortitude and/or > > potence enhanced thaumaturgy combat decks as well as decks trying to use > > that new !tre ally that boosts bleeding (forgot the details) > > And not in Nephandus decks ? Or Tupdogs... [ quoted text not captured ]

[ quoted text not captured ] I'm not saying he'll make for a new deck concept that will rival with the best out there (Arika and co), just that the vamp is huge by itself. I'm ok for "design as an art", but balance has to be taken into consideration too. -- Orpheus ----------------------- My story doesn't happen in the sound of the notes but in the silence between them. That is where the magic happens. Echo

Orpheus wrote: > > Black Forest Base is the only card in the set I don't have yet, so I don't > > know what it does. > > I wanna know !! > otays. Black Forest Base Master: unique location. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. *blink* Why Changelings? -- - Gregory Stuart Pettigrew

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <gpett...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1157125976.5...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... [ quoted text not captured ] We've got to do SOMETHING useful with all those Dauntain Black Magician (Changeling)s that will be in circulation. - Pat

[ quoted text not captured ] lol. Yes, why ? On the aside : good card ! Not really the Sabbat's answer to Parity Shift, but I can really see that one played in Lasombra embrace decks or maybe Palle Grande voters... -- Orpheus Nearly made it to LSJ's Killfile !!

"Gregory Stuart Pettigrew" <gpett...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1157125976.5...@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com... > Black Forest Base > Master: unique location. > Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. > Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or > her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political > action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. > > *blink* > > Why Changelings? They own the only outhouse on the land in question. If they want to shut the party down, it shuts down.

"Orpheus" <orphe...@DEADSPAMfree.fr> wrote in message news:44f8b7bc$0$27558$626a...@news.free.fr... >> Black Forest Base >> Master: unique location. >> Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. >> Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or >> her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political >> action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. > > On the aside : good card ! Not really the Sabbat's answer to Parity Shift, > but I can really see that one played in Lasombra embrace decks or maybe > Palle Grande voters... Notice, however, that _any_ Sabbat vampire may call the referendum, not just one controlled by the controller of Black Forest Base. That changes the nature of the card a bit. Fred

[ quoted text not captured ] Because they are the only ones with the recipe to the Black Forest Cake. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Well....Unless you're a faerie. Are you faerie-enough to burn the Black Forest Base? Well, are you punk? :) Comments Welcome, Norman S. Brown, Jr XZealot Archon of the Swamp

"XZealot" <xze...@cox.net> wrote in message news:1157160089.4...@74g2000cwt.googlegroups.com... > > Gregory Stuart Pettigrew wrote: >> Orpheus wrote: >> > > Black Forest Base is the only card in the set I don't have yet, so I >> > > don't >> > > know what it does. >> > >> > I wanna know !! >> > >> >> otays. >> >> Black Forest Base >> Master: unique location. >> Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. >> Once each turn, a Sabbat vampire may call a referendum to give his or >> her controller 2 pool from the blood bank as a +1 stealth political >> action. Any Changeling may burn this card as a +1 stealth (D) action. >> >> *blink* >> >> Why Changelings? > > Because they are the only ones with the recipe to the Black Forest > Cake. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Well....Unless you're > a faerie. > And someone left their cake out in the rain, they don't think that they can take it, and they'll never have that recipe again. And nothing pisses a Changeling off like a rainy cake. - Pat

Orpheus wrote: > > Antonio d'Erlette > > 5 capacity Tremere antitribu > > Group 4 > > dom for pot THA > > Sabbat: While Antonio is ready, you may spend four transfers to search > > your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a mage ally Antonio could > > play. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount (pay > > cost as normal). > > Really, is it me or do some of the 3rd Ed vamps surpass any others in terms > of efficiency for cost ? This guy costs 5, has 1 sup and 3 inf > (good)disciplines, and instead of a weakness he gets a potentially uber > special (at least it'not as if Nephandus was a Ma.. wait !!), what's the > deal here ?! I agree that Antonio is definitely on the strong side. But then again, look at some of the other recent 5-caps that have been printed. Celeste Lamontagne and Petra have much better discipline spreads on top of their own specials. Maria Stone (Advanced) has a hideous number of disciplines (I didn't realize -1 strength was worth 2 bonus points!). The Kikayaon, Solomon Batanea, and Callirus are also getting "free" specials as well. In this set alone we have Dr. Julius Sutphen (Advanced), Ermenegildo the Rake, and Raphael Catarari (give him some Corporal Reservoirs and never worry about his special again). Or how about the promo Victor Pelletier? Antonio is good, yes. But is he that much better than all the other vampires I just listed? I think not...

On 3 Sep 2006 07:36:42 -0700, echia...@yahoo.com <echia...@yahoo.com> wrote: > I agree that Antonio is definitely on the strong side. But then again, > look at some of the other recent 5-caps that have been printed. Celeste > Lamontagne and Petra have much better discipline spreads on top of > their own specials. Maria Stone (Advanced) has a hideous number of > disciplines (I didn't realize -1 strength was worth 2 bonus points!). > The Kikayaon, Solomon Batanea, and Callirus are also getting "free" > specials as well. The Kikiyaon has 4 points of disciplines, Flight (probably worth .5 points) and a burn-a-blood manoeuvre (again, probably .5 points). I don't think she is overpowered (undercosted). She is just about right. -- Regards, Daneel

Matthew T. Morgan wrote: > > But looking at many other 3rd ed spoils (and assuming they're exact for now) > > I'm afraid that there was a rise in power, right here and now... > > Do you honestly think that a Klaus Konrecht deck will compete favorably > against Arika sleaze or Anson/Anneke/Alexandra Toreador Grand Ball or G2/3 > Kindred Spirits starring Dolphin Black? I think the Klaus deck is going > to face a serious uphill battle against those monsters and when the dust > settles, the archetypes that keep winning tournaments will continue to win > tournaments. I'm not seeing the power creep. I'm seeing a set that > should be at best competative with what's already out there. I'm gonna have to agree with Matt here. Klaus Konrecht is cool and all, and he's an awesome 8-cap Cardinal, but is an 8-cap Cardinal really better than an 8-cap Prince? Truth be told, even with his disciplines and the extra vote, I'd still put my money hands down on Donal, Constanza, Anson, Emerson, and Victorine over Klaus. In fact, I'd even say that many of the 7-cap Princes with in-clan superiors (Nash and Duane) and those without (Ira, Nikolaus, Crowley, and Quentin) are nonetheless more efficient in many cases. Anyway, at least Klaus is usable, unlike silly old Donatien... I do find the amount of Obfuscate on the new !Toreador worrying however. I remember seeing some old decks utilizing Palla Grande weenies getting Cloaked by Greta with a skill card (another variant was with Donatien using Creation Rites for Obfuscate weenies). In Group 3/4, we can have Marthe and Isouda Cloaking the Embraces. Cristos and Gabriel provide support, and Malabranca (also with obf) and Klaus making Creation Rite babies. Hmmm....

[ quoted text not captured ] Well, I would put Flight and the maneuver special at one point each (yielding 6 points). Flight is most prominent on Gargoyles which means it is usually saddled with a Slave disadvantage. Otherwise getting it is rather hard (CI to Nosferatu for Patagia or get The Textbook Damnation so you can Concordance). So I think a one-point cost for Flight is fair. There doesn't seem to be a significant difference between "get X per combat" and "burn a blood to get X per combat" IMHO. For example, look at what Victorine LaFourcade, Silvia Giovanni, Rocia, Matata, and Julian Sanders pay for their unconditional press vs. what Petaniqua (Advanced) and Aeron pay for their "burn a blood for a press." Not a significant difference. Kazimir is even paying a point for a much more conditional press. (Terry is a possible exception, but I would argue that he/she is an outlier). For a maneuver comparison, I would cite Juggler as the best comparison (he seems to pay a full point for his burn a blood for a maneuver, though admittedly he does have some synergy with his other special). I don't think Alexis is paying that much more for her dodge ability than Marie Faucigny. Look at Aisha, Ilyana, and Persia for the issue of intercept (though I personally think that intercept is undercosted with the current system). I agree that there *is* a difference between burning a blood and not, but I think it's more negligible than you apparantly do. (And of course there's always the intangible quality of synergy as well, which is really hard to measure). Feel free to disagree though. I doubt that what either you or I think is likely to affect LSJ's system. Nonetheless Daneel, with the Kikiyaon and Dr. Julius excepted, all of the other guys I listed above have 5 points of disciplines. Is Antonio better than the rest of them?

> Matthew T. Morgan wrote: > > > But looking at many other 3rd ed spoils (and assuming they're exact for now) > > > I'm afraid that there was a rise in power, right here and now... > > > > Do you honestly think that a Klaus Konrecht deck will compete favorably > > against Arika sleaze or Anson/Anneke/Alexandra Toreador Grand Ball or G2/3 > > Kindred Spirits starring Dolphin Black? I think the Klaus deck is going > > to face a serious uphill battle against those monsters and when the dust > > settles, the archetypes that keep winning tournaments will continue to win > > tournaments. I'm not seeing the power creep. I'm seeing a set that > > should be at best competative with what's already out there. > > > I'm gonna have to agree with Matt here. Klaus Konrecht is cool and all, > and he's an awesome 8-cap Cardinal, but is an 8-cap Cardinal really > better than an 8-cap Prince? Certainly not better, but quite good. 1 more vote, and the absence of Parity Shift and co is also compensated by the access to Private Audience. All this plus his disciplines (allowing Bruise'n'Vote) and his belonging to a Clan with great cards available. > Truth be told, even with his disciplines and the extra vote, I'd still > put my money hands down on Donal, Constanza, Anson, Emerson, and > Victorine over Klaus. In fact, I'd even say that many of the 7-cap > Princes with in-clan superiors (Nash and Duane) and those without (Ira, > Nikolaus, Crowley, and Quentin) are nonetheless more efficient in many > cases. Certainly, if only because of the still-too-efficient Parity Shift. But Klaus is good. And so is Radu Bistri. > Anyway, at least Klaus is usable, unlike silly old Donatien... I made 6th place at last year's French Championship with a !Tore vote / Embrace. Donatien was one of my stars, his inf Cel is no big deal (not even for Scalpel Tongue). So I say Donnie baby is quite good in the right decks, and even if there is going to be another surge in intercept that might condemn Palla decks or voters with no stealth, Klaus will see some play and give the occasional win. > I do find the amount of Obfuscate on the new !Toreador worrying > however. I remember seeing some old decks utilizing Palla Grande > weenies getting Cloaked by Greta with a skill card (another variant was > with Donatien using Creation Rites for Obfuscate weenies). In Group > 3/4, we can have Marthe and Isouda Cloaking the Embraces. Cristos and > Gabriel provide support, and Malabranca (also with obf) and Klaus > making Creation Rite babies. Hmmm.... Hehehe... -- [ quoted text not captured ]

On 3 Sep 2006 08:08:40 -0700, echia...@yahoo.com <echia...@yahoo.com> wrote: >> The Kikiyaon has 4 points of disciplines, Flight (probably worth .5 >> points) and a burn-a-blood manoeuvre (again, probably .5 points). >> I don't think she is overpowered (undercosted). She is just about >> right. > > Well, I would put Flight and the maneuver special at one point each > (yielding 6 points). Flight is most prominent on Gargoyles which means > it is usually saddled with a Slave disadvantage. Otherwise getting it > is rather hard (CI to Nosferatu for Patagia or get The Textbook > Damnation so you can Concordance). So I think a one-point cost for > Flight is fair. I principally disagree with this line of reasoning - by the same token, for example, Obeah could be significantly more expensive than Auspex (which it apparently isn't). And rightfully so. Looking at the benefit Flight gives to the minion I'd definitely rate it cheaper than a level of a Discipline, even though I think Flight has some good cards. > There doesn't seem to be a significant difference between "get X per > combat" and "burn a blood to get X per combat" IMHO. > > For example, look at what Victorine LaFourcade, Silvia Giovanni, Rocia, > Matata, and Julian Sanders pay for their unconditional press vs. what > Petaniqua (Advanced) and Aeron pay for their "burn a blood for a > press." Not a significant difference. Kazimir is even paying a point > for a much more conditional press. (Terry is a possible exception, but > I would argue that he/she is an outlier). As illustrated by more examples than not, many vampires don't match the current costing design scheme. I suspect the differences are attributable to a number of things (e.g. different desing schemes used for previous sets, designer freedom to interpret concepts, holistic design, synergies or their lack thereof, etc.). [snip] I agree that Intercept is undercosted. I'd probably cost it at par with stealth. > I agree that there *is* a difference between burning a blood and not, > but I think it's more negligible than you apparantly do. (And of course > there's always the intangible quality of synergy as well, which is > really hard to measure). Feel free to disagree though. I doubt that > what either you or I think is likely to affect LSJ's system. On one hand, having the ability to do something is probably more significant than the cost; on the other, attaching a blood cost to something that could be reused many times (e.g. moving to long can be a form of combat defence), especially for a smaller vampire, is drastically reducing the usefulness of the ability. For an 5-cap I'd rate a burn blood for a manoeuvre effect to be significantly worse than a free manoeuvre effect. > Nonetheless Daneel, with the Kikiyaon and Dr. Julius excepted, all of > the other guys I listed above have 5 points of disciplines. Is Antonio > better than the rest of them? All Celeste, Petra and Antonio have highly conditional specials; however, with Antonio, you can actually fulfill the highly conditional requirement during deck construcion. For me this technically makes him more powerful. His price is the OOCs he has, making him little more than a 5-cap tha DOM guy in your average Tremere deck. -- Regards, Daneel

Pat wrote: > Oscar, dude... a Lasombra?! And he doesn't even have dementation as an > out-of-clan. > that's one handsome card though ;) oscar > Did you lose another bet? ;) > > - Pat