Leadership Vacuum question

Leadership Vacuum [Gehenna:R] Cardtype: Master Master: out-of-turn. Unique. Only usable when a ready titled vampire controlled by another Methuselah is burned or sent to torpor. Usable during your turn. Put this card in play and put X counters on this card where X is the number of votes that vampire has. That Methuselah burns X pool during each of his or her untap phases. During his or her untap phase, if he or she controls a ready vampire with a capacity above 7 or with a title, burn this card. Question: I'm in my untap. A LV with two counters on it was played against me last turn. I do have a ready titled/ 8+cap vampire ready. Can I burn the LV BEFORE I have to lose two pool or do I lose two pool regardless of timing in the untap?

"Joscha Duell" <joscha...@gmx.de> a écrit dans le message de news:8b87b6c9.04090...@posting.google.com... [ quoted text not captured ] you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you decide. if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things would be different :)

> > > > Question: > > I'm in my untap. A LV with two counters on it was played against me > > last turn. I do have a ready titled/ 8+cap vampire ready. Can I burn > > the LV BEFORE I have to lose two pool or do I lose two pool regardless > > of timing in the untap? I do wish that losing pool regardless of timing was how LV was intended to be played, but I doubt it. > > you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you > decide. You're probably right, but LV would be so much better if you were wrong. > > if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things > would be different :) Things would certainly be very different and would actually give the combat clans some very needed ousting potenetial. If you are correct in assuming that LV can be removed before losing pool I can't see that the card is worth including in any decks, except maybe with Tariq and his trusty ring. I'm not saying that LV should be difficult to remove, but it would have been way better if it weren't so easy to avoid that first condition of losing pool. Where's the harm in sending Arika to torpor and making sure that her Methusalah pays 4 pool for using such a bitch ;) Most likely she'll be out of torpor on that same turn and throughing a PTO in your non-camarilla face just for trying to mess with her. -Kenneth

Kenneth <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message news:<413C61AC...@ifm.uib.no>... > > > > if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things > > would be different :) > > Things would certainly be very different and would actually give the > combat clans some very needed ousting potenetial. If you are correct in > assuming that LV can be removed before losing pool I can't see that the > card is worth including in any decks, except maybe with Tariq and his > trusty ring. I'm not saying that LV should be difficult to remove, but > it would have been way better if it weren't so easy to avoid that first > condition of losing pool. Where's the harm in sending Arika to torpor > and making sure that her Methusalah pays 4 pool for using such a bitch > ;) Most likely she'll be out of torpor on that same turn and throughing > a PTO in your non-camarilla face just for trying to mess with her. :o)Well, you have to make sure that nobody is ready anymore of Arika's buddies. It seems this card only benefits multirushdecks of whatever kind which are capable of torporizing many minions at once, leaving only small ones ready which don't count for LV. A little too special for my taste, but I think I give it a try.

"Reyda" <true_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<41397f53$0$4553$79c1...@nan-newsreader-07.noos.net>... [ quoted text not captured ] My guess would be that the effect is pending as soon as you enter your untap phase, so you'd still have to resolve the effect even though you burn the card in the same untap phase. (you do get to choose the order, naturally) I think that the link with weather control isnt that far away :) http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2na8cqFv31n2U1%40uni-berlin.de (effect has to be resolved because it is pending, even if combat is ended) I'm not sure though, but it does seem reasonable to me. -Bram Vink

> > you order the stuff that happens in your untap phase, so i'd say no. you > > decide. > > > > if LV would said "burn the pool at the beginning of youruntap phase", things > > would be different :) > > My guess would be that the effect is pending as soon as you enter your > untap phase, so you'd still have to resolve the effect even though you > burn the card in the same untap phase. (you do get to choose the > order, naturally) > > I think that the link with weather control isnt that far away :) > http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=2na8cqFv31n2U1%40uni-berlin.de > (effect has to be resolved because it is pending, even if combat is > ended) > I'm not sure though, but it does seem reasonable to me. Hmm, that Weather Control vs Alpha Glint example is a good argument for a pending effect in LV. I was thinking that LV is more like Antediluvian Awakening, where you choose to burn pool or a vampire. There is still quite a difference though, since AW will deal some sort of damage no matter what you choose, while with LV there is the possibilty of avoiding pool lose with no penalties, making it unnecessarily limited in use. -Kenneth

[ quoted text not captured ] Leadership Vacuum only has an effect while in play. If burned, it has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending". Weather Control is never in play. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/

> Leadership Vacuum only has an effect while in play. If burned, it > has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending". > > Weather Control is never in play. ...but as Darky suggested, if it is in play when you enter an untap phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn) regardless of whether it's burned or not? -Kenneth

"Kenneth" <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message news:413EEE90...@ifm.uib.no... [ quoted text not captured ] But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card is not in play. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. V:TES homepage: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/ Though effective, appear to be ineffective -- Sun Tzu

On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:20 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > "Kenneth" <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message > news:413EEE90...@ifm.uib.no... >> > Leadership Vacuum only has an effect while in play. If burned, it >> > has no effect, so its effect is no longer "pending". >> > >> > Weather Control is never in play. >> >> ...but as Darky suggested, if it is in play when you enter an untap >> phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn) >> regardless of whether it's burned or not? > > But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card > is not in play. But then LSJ also stated that Weather Control is never in play. Of course, he probably meant that a card that is normally put into play is incapable of producing a pending effect that lingers after the card is burned from play. If you rush your prey LV should do damage at least once. Otherwise, it is more like a way to make people spend actions or pool - I personally loved it when it came out, but since then I tried to use it. Not every card can (or should) be a Govern... Bye, Daneel

"Daneel" <dan...@eposta.hu> wrote in message news:opsd0i9z...@news.chello.hu... > On Wed, 8 Sep 2004 09:08:20 -0400, LSJ <vte...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > > "Kenneth" <Kenneth...@ifm.uib.no> wrote in message > >> ...but as Darky suggested, if it is in play when you enter an untap > >> phase, wouldn't its effect of burning pool be pending (in that turn) > >> regardless of whether it's burned or not? > > > > But as LSJ stated, the effect is not pending if the card > > is not in play. > > But then LSJ also stated that Weather Control is never in play. Of course, He did. And it is true that WC is not put into play. Not sure what your point is here, though. > he probably meant that a card that is normally put into play is incapable > of producing a pending effect that lingers after the card is burned from > play. LSJ does not mean that. That would be incorrect. See Camarilla Vitae Slave for example. A card in play can set up a lingering effect with appropriate card text. Leadership Vacuum lacks such text. [ quoted text not captured ]