Anson's Flower Power Mega Pool Gain (DECK)

This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK CRYPT 4xAnson 8 2xAnneke 10 Masika 10 Francois Villon 10 Dorian Strack 4 Alexandria 11 Tatiana Romanova 7 Klaus van der Veken 9 I know it's an expensive crypt, but I've never had a problem getting at least four vamps out eventually due to massive pool gain. LIBRARY Masters (lots): 3xAching Beauty 2xAntediluvian Awakening Barrens 6xBlood Doll 2xElysium: The Arboretum Giant's Blood Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt 2xInformation Highway 3xMinion Tap 3xThe Parthenon 2xPolice Department The Rack 2xSecure Haven 3xShort Term Investment 2xSociety Hunting Ground Toreador Grand Ball 3xTribute to the Master Total Masters=38!! Political Actions 2xBanishment 3xConsanguineous Boon 3xKine Resources Contested Peace Treaty 2xRumors of Gehenna Action Modifiers 6xAire of Elation 4xBribes Actions 2xEnchant Kindred 4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality 2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting 2xMind Numb Combat Cards 2xFast Hands 6xMajesty 2xPreternatural Evasion 3xRiposte 6xRead Intentions Equipment Aaron's Feeding Razor 2xAssault Rifle 3xPalatial Estate Submachine Gun Reactions 3xForced Awakening 2xLegacy of Power 6xThe Second Tradition: Domain 6xTelepathic Counter 2xTelepathic Misdirection Retainers 2xResplendent Protector Total Non-Masters=80 Total Library=118 Bleed Defense: MASSIVE pool gain, telepathic counter, misdirection Vote Defense: Plenty of titled vamps Combat Defense: S:CE, dodges, refuse to block wimpy bleeds Anson is the key to this deck with his 2 master phase action ability. He should be brought out first. Then, start setting up multiple blood machines with blood dolls, palatial estate, the rack, etc. on your vamps. The strategy of this deck is to let bleeds for one pool go through, and block other bleeds. Then, avoid combat with S:CE and dodges. Parthenon and Rumors of Gehenna give you the potential of FOUR master phase actions every turn, which is why so many master cards are in this deck. The potential for pool gain is huge in this deck. In my three person circle, I usually wait for my prey to oust my predator (by then I usually have four titled vamps and at least twenty pool). Eventually the remaining player gets so pissed off when I gain at least five pool every turn before my minion phase that he gives up. I'm not sure how well this deck would work in other circles or in a tournament, but it's a fun deck to play if you like master cards.

> Parthenon > and Rumors of Gehenna give you the potential of FOUR master phase actions > every turn, which is why so many master cards are in this deck. OK, take the Rumors of Gehenna out of this deck since I discovered that Anson and Gehenna do not stack...

Kristyl Meth <dapa...@riderlaw.com> wrote in message news:01be9659$ead2eca0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com... > This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe > that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit > to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK > > CRYPT > 4xAnson 8 > 2xAnneke 10 > Masika 10 > Francois Villon 10 > Dorian Strack 4 > Alexandria 11 > Tatiana Romanova 7 > Klaus van der Veken 9 Not horrible, but I'd dump some of these others, maybe try to put in a second Francois and a fewer smaller vamps. > LIBRARY > Masters (lots): > 3xAching Beauty > 2xAntediluvian Awakening Not good, if you've got the blockers, a Smiling Jack or Even an Anarch revolt might not be bad due to the high number of Votes you should have. The awakening is easily removed by your opponents. > Barrens > 6xBlood Doll > 2xElysium: The Arboretum > Giant's Blood > Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt > 2xInformation Highway > 3xMinion Tap More Minion Taps at least your max of 6. Most mass pool gain decks under NL use 8 minion taps and 8 5th traditions as i've seen. You should go with your max of 6 on both. > 3xThe Parthenon Good, but are 3 necessary. Maybe drop to 2 since you want to cut the deck down to at least 90. > 2xPolice Department Take these out, surprise press ends tend to be more effective. > The Rack > 2xSecure Haven > 3xShort Term Investment > 2xSociety Hunting Ground > Toreador Grand Ball > 3xTribute to the Master Take these out for minion taps. > > Total Masters=38!! This is high but possibly doable with the extra Master actions. > > Political Actions > 2xBanishment ok. But you're not playing combat to lower blood levels on opponent vamps, nor does this help your deck concept. > 3xConsanguineous Boon > 3xKine Resources Contested If you're not playing them seriously as in KRC being the purpose around the deck, you might consider dropping them. Your own bleeds, Smiling Jack or Anarch Revolts and Aching beauties should deal with prey blood levels. Drop the KRC's for CB's > Peace Treaty Eh, maybe. > 2xRumors of Gehenna Dump them if you get Anson out every game they're useless as you've already noticed > > Action Modifiers > 6xAire of Elation Do you need the bleed modifiers?.... It's realistically a waste of space in anything short of a Pre/Bleed deck in my opinion. > 4xBribes Don't want to give blood to your opponents, try Voter captivations instead > Actions > 2xEnchant Kindred > 4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality > 2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting > 2xMind Numb More 5th Traditions. Max them as I've said before. Enchant kindred is a wasted action in my opinion as are the 4th traditions. I'm not sure about the Mind Numb, I don't remember what it does off the top of my head. > > Combat Cards > 2xFast Hands They help sometimes > 6xMajesty > 2xPreternatural Evasion > 3xRiposte Take out the Ripostes, if you're planning on making it to the second round, don't plan on having your vampire. > 6xRead Intentions There are better dodges, try some Staredowns. Anson has Superior PRE anyway which equal more S:CE for you. He only gets a press to end out of a REad Intentions. > > Equipment > Aaron's Feeding Razor > 2xAssault Rifle > 3xPalatial Estate These are too slow to bother especially with 3 of them > Submachine Gun Why bother. If you already plan on using Assault Rifles, you might as well go with just them. > > Reactions > 3xForced Awakening ick ick ick. I just don't like these. I'd still rather use Wakes even with the errata besides you've already got the Second Traditions in the deck > 2xLegacy of Power > 6xThe Second Tradition: Domain > 6xTelepathic Counter Dump these for more bleed deflection. > 2xTelepathic Misdirection > > Retainers > 2xResplendent Protector Dump them, they're a waste if you've got ways to end combat. > > Total Non-Masters=80 > > Total Library=118 Drop the deck size to 90 which is optimized for a 5 player game and the tournement standards.. > > Bleed Defense: MASSIVE pool gain, telepathic counter, misdirection > > Vote Defense: Plenty of titled vamps > > Combat Defense: S:CE, dodges, refuse to block wimpy bleeds > You want more S:CE > Anson is the key to this deck with his 2 master phase action ability. He > should be brought out first. Then, start setting up multiple blood > machines with blood dolls, palatial estate, the rack, etc. on your vamps. > The strategy of this deck is to let bleeds for one pool go through, and > block other bleeds. Then, avoid combat with S:CE and dodges. Parthenon > and Rumors of Gehenna give you the potential of FOUR master phase actions no they don't but you've already found that out. > every turn, which is why so many master cards are in this deck. The > potential for pool gain is huge in this deck. In my three person circle, I > usually wait for my prey to oust my predator (by then I usually have four > titled vamps and at least twenty pool). Eventually the remaining player > gets so pissed off when I gain at least five pool every turn before my > minion phase that he gives up. I'm not sure how well this deck would work > in other circles or in a tournament, but it's a fun deck to play if you > like master cards. Someone posted that they had a deck that was ALL master cards (except for two minion cards I believe). You may want to talk to them. Vince

Kristyl Meth wrote in message <01be9659$ead2eca0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... >This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe >that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit >to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK [Deck Cut] Okay. Well I can suggest a few changes but before I do, I should say that it looks like you_have_the_right_idea. The toreador prince deck is powerful, although your first meeting with a serious rush&grapple deck may leave you unimpressed. First, legal deck size is 60-90 cards, everyone on the list plays that way, talks that way, thinks that way. If you want our advice it will be for a 90 card deck. You will find that when you reduce the deck it will take a while to adjust the balance again. Standard rules are *no* card limits. So this will also alter how our advice impacts on you. Large vampires in a pool gain deck are expected, however you need to complement them with some rather small ones as well, so that you can be represented in the first few turns. Good choices for the toreador are delilah (2,pre) and isabel de leon (3,AUS). Deliliah can get you a 5 bleed if you start with a legal manipulations + aire of elation and your opponent is foolish enough not to bring out a vampire (or gets shafted by going first). Its a long shot, but nice if it works. In line with using Isabel for early defense I would also suggest more than 2 telepathic misdirection, although I can see why you dont use them as much having only 3 people in the group- the counters will work well for early defense even against bleeds of 3. It sounds like you have adapted well for your local conditions and your friends are the ones in need of advice on how to take you down, thus prompting you to change as well. To the extent that you play in a rarefied environment, advice I (we) give wont mean as much until you start playing in a larger player base. Floatey.

Okay, in the past I've played in an environment similar to what you describe, so I'll try to shoot for advice pertaining to such. > This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe that's > why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit to the > total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK > > CRYPT > 4xAnson 8 > 2xAnneke 10 > Masika 10 > Francois Villon 10 > Dorian Strack 4 > Alexandria 11 > Tatiana Romanova 7 > Klaus van der Veken 9 I would get rid of Strack and Villon, and add another 2 each of Masika and Alexandra. You will still have the votes, but now you will be able to use the Toreador Grand Ball to much better effect. Name Masika as the 2nd vampire and Anson or Alexandra as the first. Masika can untap with his special power or by Alexandra, so the Grand Ball doesn't really hurt you with him. > I know it's an expensive crypt, but I've never had a problem getting at least > four vamps out eventually due to massive pool gain. In your circle I imagine that you all play with vampires whose capacities are larger than the tournament norm. That's fine. You would have trouble in your first torunament, but you could think of it as a variation that your playgroup uses. > LIBRARY > Masters (lots): > 3xAching Beauty If you do take my advice and go with using the Grand Toreador Ball more, you won't need as many of these (since one of your vampires couldn't be blocked anyway) > 2xAntediluvian Awakening I'd remove 1 or both of these and replace it/them with an Anarch Revolt. If your pool gain stalls somehow, you don't want to be stuck with no way out except to lose a big vampire (and all of yours are). > Barrens > 6xBlood Doll Maybe too many. Perhaps take down to 5 or 4. > 2xElysium: The Arboretum > Giant's Blood > Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt Great to have in with the Tor. Grand Ball/Blood Doll combo. Vampire hunts at +1 blood and cannot be blocked. And you steal 1 from him every turn. > 2xInformation Highway Definitely needed with your crypt. Maybe add 1 or 2. > 3xMinion Tap You may be able to remove 1 of these, as you have the Blood Dolls, Investments, Tributes, etc. > 3xThe Parthenon > 2xPolice Department I'd get rid of these. With the Elysium, Majesty and Riposte if you feel like it, you shouldn't need to worry about going to a second round of combat that often. > The Rack > 2xSecure Haven Secure Haven could be removed I think. You should be taking quite a few actions, so they won't need to attack you. They'll just wait for you to come at them. > 3xShort Term Investment > 2xSociety Hunting Ground > Toreador Grand Ball Add more TGB if you have them. > 3xTribute to the Master > Political Actions > 2xBanishment You won't be lowering your opponents' minions' blood levels much, so these might not be worth it. It depends on your opponents' style of play and whether they use a lot of blood. > 3xConsanguineous Boon > 3xKine Resources Contested > Peace Treaty I'd take this out. You'll not need to worry about combat much anyway. > 2xRumors of Gehenna I saw that you will remove these, so I won't advise you to. =) > Action Modifiers > 6xAire of Elation > 4xBribes You may want to add Voter Captivation into the deck as well. I would also put in some Alacrity for +1 stealth to your minions with Celerity (all but Tatiana have superior). > Actions > 2xEnchant Kindred Add more of these. With Tor.Grand Ball, Alacrity and Marijava Ghoul you shouldn't be paying big blood for those big minions. > 4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality > 2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting > 2xMind Numb 2 may not be enough of these to may them worth putting in. I'd probably take them out. Also, maybe add Precognizant Mobility to get even more untaps on the vampires you want. > Combat Cards > 2xFast Hands Again, with your ability to get out of combat you probably don't need these. > 6xMajesty Add 2 more. > 2xPreternatural Evasion If you have any Catatonic Fear, replace the Preternatural Evasion with them. > 3xRiposte These should only be in here if you plan on your opponents being able to take you to a 2nd round. > 6xRead Intentions Take these out. If your opponent is using Immortal Grapple so you can't strike to end combat they won't help you anyway. And that type of deck is bound to have more presses as well. If you notice that, even with all the ways here to end combat, you're still taking a hit or two, you might want to add some Sideslip to prevent a little damage. Every now and then you'll be able to use the dodge as well. > Equipment > Aaron's Feeding Razor > 2xAssault Rifle I'd take these out. You should try to avoid combat rather than have others avoid you in combat. > 3xPalatial Estate Take 1 of these out, as they are unique. > Submachine Gun Same as Assault Rifle. > Reactions > 3xForced Awakening > 2xLegacy of Power I'd take these out. You shouldn't be in combat long anyway. > 6xThe Second Tradition: Domain > 6xTelepathic Counter Take a few of these out. You'll want to block bleeds and then stay out of combat. Use them only if you're worried about something like a Kiss of Ra. > 2xTelepathic Misdirection Since you only play with 3 I understand the lack of deflects. You may want to switch these to My Enemy's Enemy if you have them. They don't cost a blood. I'd add 3 or 4 Enhanced Senses just to make sure you can block stealth actions. These plus 2nd Tradition should keep even super stealth decks from nailing you often. Also, if you have them, put in Eagle's Sight so you can start blocking your prey's actions. > Retainers > 2xResplendent Protector Replace these with Marijava Ghouls if you have them. +1 stealth for any Presence action! Get some if you don't have any. They will make your Toreador deck sing. > Bleed Defense: MASSIVE pool gain, telepathic counter, misdirection Not so much on the counter. You should have Masika untapped to block at all times, so he can block and use Majesty to do it again. (Yes, I know it's cheese, but hey...) > Vote Defense: Plenty of titled vamps Yep. > Combat Defense: S:CE, dodges, refuse to block wimpy bleeds Take out the dodges. And you can refuse to block the wimpy bleeds, but why not just block them anyway? If you're worried about a horde, then they're all wimpy bleeds. With the pool gain working, you can afford to risk blocking more. Once the game has gone for a good 6-10 rounds, you should have 4-5 of your big vampires out, and with that you can block and act all you like. > Anson is the key to this deck with his 2 master phase action ability. He > should be brought out first. Then, start setting up multiple blood machines > with blood dolls, palatial estate, the rack, etc. on your vamps. Anson is a key, but I'd go for Alexandra or Masika with the changes I've advised. You really need to get the Info Highways out early so you can get one of these and Anson out, then get the third. > The strategy of this deck is to let bleeds for one pool go through, and block > other bleeds. You'll have to see how it works, but you should be able to block those as well once you've gone a few rounds. > Then, avoid combat with S:CE and dodges. Should be S:CE and Elysium. > Parthenon and Rumors of Gehenna give you the potential of FOUR master phase > actions every turn, which is why so many master cards are in this deck. 3, but I know you saw the previous posts. > The potential for pool gain is huge in this deck. In my three person > circle, I usually wait for my prey to oust my predator (by then I usually > have four titled vamps and at least twenty pool). Don't wait. Block your prey when his prey doesn't. Block everyone and end combat. You should try to use the Elysium on your opponents turns, and S:CE on yours. That way if they do get one of your minions and you can't S:CE, it's likely to be your turn and you can fetch them from torpor immediately. > Eventually the remaining player gets so pissed off when I gain at least five > pool every turn before my minion phase that he gives up. I'm not sure how > well this deck would work in other circles or in a tournament, but it's a fun > deck to play if you like master cards. You shouldn't try to frustrate them as much as dominate them. You should just try to take them both out. If you are able to make these changes and you can just sweep your friends, then they will probably change their decks for the better. That way you'll end up with a tougher playgroup and the strategies will evolve again and again as each new, better deck comes. Well, I tried to give advice for what seems like your playgroup's style. Hope it helps. p.

Alright, dude, lemme clue you in on some nastiness: This deck absolutely SCREAMS smiling jack the anarch. See below. Kristyl Meth wrote in message <01be9659$ead2eca0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... >This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe >that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit >to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > >ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK > >CRYPT >4xAnson 8 >2xAnneke 10 >Masika 10 >Francois Villon 10 >Dorian Strack 4 >Alexandria 11 >Tatiana Romanova 7 >Klaus van der Veken 9 > >I know it's an expensive crypt, but I've never had a problem getting at >least four vamps out eventually due to massive pool gain. Might want a Gideon Fontaine in there (not an artfag, I agree, but he does have PRE), mabee an Isabel de Leon. Small vamps are not to be looked down upon. >LIBRARY >Masters (lots): >3xAching Beauty >2xAntediluvian Awakening >Barrens >6xBlood Doll >2xElysium: The Arboretum >Giant's Blood >Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt >2xInformation Highway >3xMinion Tap >3xThe Parthenon >2xPolice Department >The Rack >2xSecure Haven >3xShort Term Investment >2xSociety Hunting Ground >Toreador Grand Ball >3xTribute to the Master Me? I'd kill the police departments, the grand ball, and the tribute's and replace them with the following: 2xSmiling Jack the Anarch 4xAnarch Revolt This does change the face of your deck a little bit, but I think you'll understand the coolness after you try it. You said yourself, you have the pool to pay for these toys. Not everybody else does, particularly if you've succeeded in wacking your prey. >Total Masters=38!! > >Political Actions >2xBanishment >3xConsanguineous Boon >3xKine Resources Contested >Peace Treaty >2xRumors of Gehenna Replace the Rumors (you know why) with Kindred Restructure. This lets you jump behind the person who'se getting their ass kicked the most by Smiling Jack. You don't want to be doing damage left and right and handing out victory points to other people. >Action Modifiers >6xAire of Elation >4xBribes Cool. >Actions >2xEnchant Kindred >4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality >2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting >2xMind Numb Mind Numb? If it works for you then go for it. >Combat Cards >2xFast Hands >6xMajesty >2xPreternatural Evasion >3xRiposte >6xRead Intentions I wouldn't put the fast hands in if you have the Peace Treaty's in, or visa versa. You don't want useless cards in your hand. I'd also ditch the ripostes unless you were going to put vampyric speeds in (to get the dodge and the press) Me? I'd leave your peace treatys in, kill the fast hands and the ripostes, and add another five majestys. Mabee mix up the dodges between auspex and celerity as well. (Anson can't read intentions at superior) >Equipment >Aaron's Feeding Razor >2xAssault Rifle >3xPalatial Estate >Submachine Gun Geez. Some big guns here. Thought about putting some Pursuits in your combat draw? They'd give you a manuver at minor to run away and an additional strike at major so you can totally wack somebody with your AK. Just a thought. I think I'd also yank one or two of the Palatial Estates because they're unique. >Reactions >3xForced Awakening >2xLegacy of Power >6xThe Second Tradition: Domain >6xTelepathic Counter >2xTelepathic Misdirection These look cool to me. >Retainers >2xResplendent Protector Cool. I might yank these if you can't think of a better way of trimming the deck down, but hey... You also gotta think that while you're at long range with your gun, your opponent can shoot your Protector instead of you... >Total Non-Masters=80 > >Total Library=118 This is too big. You need to remove 18 cards, and I think you'll find that the deck will work better that way anyway. I'd start by removing alot of the duplicates you have of unique masters and other unique stuff. Remember, if the deck's smaller you still get to your Parthenon and whatnot just as fast. Think in terms of ratios. One suggestion: Try to hook more people into playing with you. Jyhad gets allot cooler once you get four or five players in the game.

OK, Vince, here's some modifications..... Vince Johnson <Miste...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in article <7goaca$5ou$1...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>... > > Kristyl Meth <dapa...@riderlaw.com> wrote in message > news:01be9659$ead2eca0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com... > > This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe > > that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit > > to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > > ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK > > > > CRYPT > > 4xAnson 8 > > 2xAnneke 10 > > Masika 10 > > 2xFrancois Villon 10 > > Isabel de Leon 3 > > Delilah 2 > > Tatiana Romanova 7 > > Klaus van der Veken 9 > > Not horrible, but I'd dump some of these others, maybe try to put in a > second Francois and a fewer smaller vamps. OK, added a Francois, Isabel, and Delilah....took out Dorian Strack (I hated him anyway) and Alexandria (don't need her). > > > LIBRARY > > Masters (lots): > > 3xAching Beauty > > Antediluvian Awakening 2xAnarch Revolt > > Not good, if you've got the blockers, a Smiling Jack or Even an Anarch > revolt might not be bad due to the high number of Votes you should have. > The awakening is easily removed by your opponents. Ante Awakenings work well in my group, since my opponents don't like burning their vamps. But, I think you're right that Anarch Revolt would be good, so I added two and took out one Ante Awakening. I've never liked Smiling Jack because it gets burned immediately whenever I've played it--I'd rather save my S:CE's for blocking bleeds and for avoiding combat when my bleeds are blocked. > > > Barrens > > 6xBlood Doll > > 2xElysium: The Arboretum > > Giant's Blood > > Inbase Discotek, Frankfurt > > 2xInformation Highway > > 6xMinion Tap > > More Minion Taps at least your max of 6. Most mass pool gain decks under NL > use 8 minion taps and 8 5th traditions as i've seen. You should go with > your max of 6 on both. I wish I had six Fifth Traditions--I've got all of mine in this deck (4).... > > > 2xThe Parthenon > > Good, but are 3 necessary. Maybe drop to 2 since you want to cut the deck > down to at least 90. You're right, three is overkill... > > > > > Take these out, surprise press ends tend to be more effective. Another good point...the Police Departments are gone. > > > The Rack > > 2xSecure Haven > > 3xShort Term Investment > > 2xSociety Hunting Ground > > Toreador Grand Ball > > 2xTribute to the Master > > Take these out for minion taps. Nah, I like these...I'll cut them down to 2. > > > > > Total Masters=38!! > > This is high but possibly doable with the extra Master actions. New Master Total=37 > > > > > Political Actions > > > > ok. But you're not playing combat to lower blood levels on opponent vamps, > nor does this help your deck concept. Good point...Banishments are banished :) > > > 2xConsanguineous Boon > > > > If you're not playing them seriously as in KRC being the purpose around the > deck, you might consider dropping them. Your own bleeds, Smiling Jack or > Anarch Revolts and Aching beauties should deal with prey blood levels. Drop > the KRC's for CB's Yeah, this deck originally had no PA's in it, but I decided to add some, which is why a lot of these vote cards seem out of place. I took out the KRCs and one CB to get down to 90 cards. > > > Peace Treaty > > Eh, maybe. Gotta keep this one in my play group. > > > > > Dump them if you get Anson out every game they're useless as you've already > noticed Rumors of Gehenna are dumped...they were only there because I thought I could have 4 master phase actions. > > > > > Action Modifiers > > 2xAire of Elation > > Do you need the bleed modifiers?.... It's realistically a waste of space in > anything short of a Pre/Bleed deck in my opinion. I like having some of these for surprise big bleeds...I'll take them down to two. > > > > > Don't want to give blood to your opponents, try Voter captivations instead I've never really understood voter captivations...aren't votes like stealth and intercept, so that you can only add more when needed to counter other votes? So every vote would only pass by one vote, right? If there is a way to get more than one, I'd definitely replace the Bribes with Voter Captivations...but I'll use neither since I've limited my PA's drastically to get my library down to 90. > > > Actions > > > > 4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality > > 2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting > > > > More 5th Traditions. Max them as I've said before. Enchant kindred is a > wasted action in my opinion as are the 4th traditions. I'm not sure about > the Mind Numb, I don't remember what it does off the top of my head. Sorry, I only own four 5th Trads. I like using 4th trad. and (S) Enchant Kindred to get my big vamps out earlier (of course I can only use them on younger vamps). Then, I use them for pool gain later when I have enough vamps out. At any rate, the Enchants are not at stealth, so I took those out (they always get blocked). Also, the Mind Numbs were unnecessary (taps minion and keeps him tapped for another turn). > > > > > Combat Cards > > Fast Hands > > They help sometimes Down to one for 90 limit. > > > 6xMajesty > > 2xPreternatural Evasion > > > > Take out the Ripostes, if you're planning on making it to the second round, > don't plan on having your vampire. They're gone. > > > 6xRead Intentions > > 2xStaredown > > There are better dodges, try some Staredowns. Anson has Superior PRE anyway > which equal more S:CE for you. He only gets a press to end out of a REad > Intentions. I actually forgot to list my Staredowns. Unfortunately, I only have 2 (Sabbat packs are in short supply in my area). That's why I use Read Intentions instead. > > > > > Equipment > > Aaron's Feeding Razor > > 2xAssault Rifle > > 2xPalatial Estate > > These are too slow to bother especially with 3 of them I like these with Blood Doll combo...so I kept 2. > > > Submachine Gun > > Why bother. If you already plan on using Assault Rifles, you might as well > go with just them. True, but I also only have 2 Assault Rifles (notice a theme here), so I leave in a third gun for good measure. > > > > > Reactions > > 3xWake with Evening's Freshness > > ick ick ick. I just don't like these. I'd still rather use Wakes even with > the errata besides you've already got the Second Traditions in the deck I actually prefer Wakes, too, but I thought most other players didn't. It's good to hear that some players are on my side! I replaced the Forced A's with Wakes. > > > > > 6xThe Second Tradition: Domain > > 6xTelepathic Counter > > Dump these for more bleed deflection. In my three person group I need to limit my deflection, so I'll leave them in my personal deck. But you're right, for tournaments they'd be replaced with more Telepathic Misdirections. I also took out my 2 Legacies of Power, since I never really liked them and I want to get down to 90 overall. > > > 4xTelepathic Misdirection Add 2 for more bleed deflection (or intercept if needed to block bleeds after our group gets down to 2 Meths). > > > > Retainers > > > > Dump them, they're a waste if you've got ways to end combat. Yet another good point....the Resplendent Protectors are gone. > > > > > Total Non-Masters=53 > > > > Total Library=90 > > Drop the deck size to 90 which is optimized for a 5 player game and the > tournement standards.. OK, it's down to 90! > > > > > Bleed Defense: MASSIVE pool gain, telepathic counter, misdirection > > > > Vote Defense: Plenty of titled vamps > > > > Combat Defense: S:CE, dodges, refuse to block wimpy bleeds > > > > You want more S:CE Now that I've dropped to 90, how would you recommend adding more? I've got six Majesties, 2 Elysiums, and 2 Staredowns. I guess I need to get more Staredowns, eh? [ quoted text not captured ] That could never work...I have enough trouble with 37! KM

I _really_ like your suggestion about Masika and the TGB, but I only own two TGBs. Plus, I've decided to trim the deck down by taking out a lot of the action cards and PAs I had in it before. See my reply to Vince's suggestions... KM

See my reply to Vince's suggestions and let me know how the modifications look... KM

See my modifications in the reply to Vince's suggestions... KM

{Cut, Cut, Cut} > > > > Don't want to give blood to your opponents, try Voter captivations > instead > > I've never really understood voter captivations...aren't votes like stealth > and intercept, so that you can only add more when needed to counter other > votes? So every vote would only pass by one vote, right? If there is a > way to get more than one, I'd definitely replace the Bribes with Voter > Captivations...but I'll use neither since I've limited my PA's drastically > to get my library down to 90. > Votes aren't like S&I. However many votes are available may be played. That's where Voter Captivations would be good for this deck. If your vote wins, take the difference and add it to your vampire's blood total. And since your Tories mostly have superior Presence, you could directly place up to 2 of that pool into your own pool instead of on the vampire. But since you've got the blood dolls and minion taps, ALL of the blood that goes onto your vampire is potential pool for you. The point is that if your votes tend to win by a lot, as is the case in my group, Voter Captivations tend to be very useful. Voter Captivation is also one of hte reasons why Awe is such a powerful card. At PRE, you can get a ton of votes out of it by burning up all of your vampire's blood, then get most of it back through a Voter Captivation. VC was a card I had overlooked all the time in my vote decks until recently and now I usually include a few. > > > > > Actions > > > > > > 4xThe Fifth Tradition: Hospitality > > > 2xThe Fourth Tradition: The Accounting > > > > > > > More 5th Traditions. Max them as I've said before. Enchant kindred is a > > wasted action in my opinion as are the 4th traditions. I'm not sure > about > > the Mind Numb, I don't remember what it does off the top of my head. > > Sorry, I only own four 5th Trads. I like using 4th trad. and (S) Enchant > Kindred to get my big vamps out earlier (of course I can only use them on > younger vamps). Then, I use them for pool gain later when I have enough > vamps out. At any rate, the Enchants are not at stealth, so I took those > out (they always get blocked). Also, the Mind Numbs were unnecessary (taps > minion and keeps him tapped for another turn). Work on getting those 5ths if you can. As for the Mind Numbs, yeah, they're pretty useless to the concept. Since you don't have the 5ths right now, the 4th Traditions aren't so bad since you can technically cycle that blood into your pool during your influence phases. > I actually forgot to list my Staredowns. Unfortunately, I only have 2 > (Sabbat packs are in short supply in my area). That's why I use Read > Intentions instead. Hmm, then could I suggest you also might want to look at some Celerity dodges instead. For instance Vampiric Speed provides a dodge at minor. At superior is provides both a dodge and a multifunctional Press providing an almost better effect since your chief vampire, Anson, can utilize it better than the Read Intentions which he can only get the inferior of Read Intentions. > > > > > > > > > Equipment > > > Aaron's Feeding Razor > > > 2xAssault Rifle > > > 2xPalatial Estate > > > > These are too slow to bother especially with 3 of them > > I like these with Blood Doll combo...so I kept 2. > > > > > > Submachine Gun > > > > Why bother. If you already plan on using Assault Rifles, you might as > well > > go with just them. > > True, but I also only have 2 Assault Rifles (notice a theme here), so I > leave in a third gun for good measure. > > > > > > > > > Reactions > > > 3xWake with Evening's Freshness > > > > ick ick ick. I just don't like these. I'd still rather use Wakes even > with > > the errata besides you've already got the Second Traditions in the deck > > I actually prefer Wakes, too, but I thought most other players didn't. > It's good to hear that some players are on my side! I replaced the Forced > A's with Wakes. I just don't like the waste of blood that results from Forced Awakenings despite their immediate replacement. I tend not to flood a deck with them that an occassional unreplaced card would severely effect my game play. [ quoted text not captured ] Yeah. I have a pool gaining version of a Mixed Torie/!Torie sort that utilizes many Anarch Revolts, Smiling Jacks and the Ante Awakenings while the remainder of the deck is Intercept and combat evasion. It tends to do well without a lot of S:CE (only 10 cards overall). But you also have to look at the types of decks being played particularly combat decks. If your group plays a lot of Thoughts Betrayed and Immortal Grapples, 8 S:CE may be enough because you can't really plan on evading combat too much with these floating around. The dodges such as Vampiric Speed and Sideslip tend to help my deck along too (Sideslip seems like a waste, but in a 6CL and the abliity to sideslip some key mini points of damage after the strike phase helps in my area). I tend to get around these cards (IG and TB) with Zip guns. This deck used to utilize Zip Gun and Dragon's breath rounds but when the combo was killed I went down to the Zip Guns only. They're helpful at a surprise manuever to range and allow for some minimal damage to be dealth. I don't know how your group play is that you might want to handle this. Vince

>>I _really_ like your suggestion about Masika and the TGB, but I only own two TGBs. Plus, I've decided to trim the deck down by taking out a lot of the action cards and PAs I had in it before. See my reply to Vince's suggestions...<< Two should be fine if you aren't relying on them. If you don't get them you're still doing well. If you do get one out, you're hell on earth. I'd also like to resuggest adding Marijava Ghouls if you have/can get them. If you don't know, they give +1 stealth on Presence actions. Those Enchant Kindreds aren't at any stealth normally. Plus, you can throw in some stealthy bleeds with them and Alacrity. Imagine a Toreador bleeding for 7+ pool at +2 stealth! Watch for Archon Investigations. You'll also want to rethink the Crypt changes that you made if you go with that idea. p.

> Votes aren't like S&I. However many votes are available may be played. > That's where Voter Captivations would be good for this deck. If your vote > wins, take the difference and add it to your vampire's blood total. And > since your Tories mostly have superior Presence, you could directly place up > to 2 of that pool into your own pool instead of on the vampire. But since > you've got the blood dolls and minion taps, ALL of the blood that goes onto > your vampire is potential pool for you. The point is that if your votes > tend to win by a lot, as is the case in my group, Voter Captivations tend to > be very useful. So if I have Francois, Anneke, Anson, and Klaus, plus my vote card, and my opponents have zero votes, I can cast ten votes and completely fill Anson and take two pool?!! If that's the case, maybe I should put more of those votes back in my deck.... > Hmm, then could I suggest you also might want to look at some Celerity > dodges instead. For instance Vampiric Speed provides a dodge at minor. At > superior is provides both a dodge and a multifunctional Press providing an > almost better effect since your chief vampire, Anson, can utilize it better > than the Read Intentions which he can only get the inferior of Read > Intentions. I agree, Vamp Speed is better.... > helps in my area). I tend to get around these cards (IG and TB) with Zip > guns. This deck used to utilize Zip Gun and Dragon's breath rounds but when > the combo was killed I went down to the Zip Guns only. They're helpful at a > surprise manuever to range and allow for some minimal damage to be dealth. > I don't know how your group play is that you might want to handle this. Oooh, I've never liked Zips....my play circle easily avoids one point of damage with Flak Jackets/Guardian Angels/retainers with more than one life/Fortitude cards. I'll look into adding more votes with VC and repost. KM

Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> wrote in article <37307200...@alpinetaxi.com>... > >>I _really_ like your suggestion about Masika and the TGB, but I only own two > TGBs. Plus, I've decided to trim the deck down by taking out a lot of the > action cards and PAs I had in it before. See my reply to Vince's > suggestions...<< > > Two should be fine if you aren't relying on them. If you don't get them > you're still doing well. If you do get one out, you're hell on earth. I still really like the TGB/Masika combo...I'm going to rework the deck and put that in along with some Voter Captivation combos and Marijava Ghouls (can you believe I forgot about them?!). I'll repost a new and improved Anson/Masika deck tomorrow. KM

> OK, added a Francois, Isabel, and Delilah....took out Dorian Strack (I hated > him anyway) and Alexandria (don't need her). This depends on your playgroup. If you all tend to use bigger vampires, then the smaller vampires may not be necessary to balance your crypt. > Ante Awakenings work well in my group, since my opponents don't like burning > their vamps. But, I think you're right that Anarch Revolt would be good, so > I added two and took out one Ante Awakening. I've never liked Smiling Jack > because it gets burned immediately whenever I've played > it--I'd rather save my S:CE's for blocking bleeds and for avoiding combat > when my bleeds are blocked. I agree...mostly. You should be able to protect Smiling Jack if you decide to put him in. You should have enough S:CE for blocking and bleeding. I don't like him much in this deck, because he tends to draw unwanted attention. For your group, however, he may be okay. > I wish I had six Fifth Traditions--I've got all of mine in this deck (4).... You've got enough pool gain already. The really massive pool gain usually only works well if that is all you are doing. Those decks tend to just survive the other decks, until the later rounds when they have quite a few large minions roaming around. > You're right, three is overkill... I agree that 2 is fine. > Another good point...the Police Departments are gone. Good. > > Take these out for minion taps.< > Nah, I like these...I'll cut them down to 2. Good. A little diversity is always good. Although I will point out that if one of your minions is low on blood, a Minion Tap is far handier than a Tribute to the Master, as you can leave that weak minion's blood on him. > Good point...Banishments are banished :) Good. > Yeah, this deck originally had no PA's in it, but I decided to add some, > which is why a lot of these vote cards seem out of place. I took out the > KRCs and one CB to get down to 90 cards. The Toreador Grand Ball deck that I use doesn't use PA, but they do add spice. > Gotta keep this one in my play group. As I said in my previous post, if you aren't in combat guns can't hurt you. And if they play something so that you can't S:CE, then they can't use weapons (exception is Dog Pack). > Rumors of Gehenna are dumped...they were only there because I thought I could > have 4 master phase actions. Good. > I like having some of these for surprise big bleeds...I'll take them down to > two. I like the Aire of Elations as well. I disagree with taking them out. > I've never really understood voter captivations...aren't votes like stealth > and intercept, so that you can only add more when needed to counter other > votes? So every vote would only pass by one vote, right? If there is a way > to get more than one, I'd definitely replace the Bribes with Voter > Captivations...but I'll use neither since I've limited my PA's drastically to > get my library down to 90. You can only *play* votes if you need them, but if you have 8 votes on the table (from your minions and the PA itself) and your opponents only have 3... > Sorry, I only own four 5th Trads. I like using 4th trad. and (S) Enchant > Kindred to get my big vamps out earlier (of course I can only use them on > younger vamps). That's why you should keep Alexandra in. She can't do the 4th Trad., but she can Enchant Kindred all day. And if she's the first vampire named by Toreador Grand Ball, it can't be blocked. > Then, I use them for pool gain later when I have enough vamps out. At any > rate, the Enchants are not at stealth, so I took those out (they always get > blocked). See above. > Also, the Mind Numbs were unnecessary (taps minion and keeps him tapped for > another turn). Agreed. > >>Fast Hands > They help sometimes<< > Down to one for 90 limit. I'd still take them all out. See above about Peace Treaty. > They're gone. (Riposte) Good. > I actually forgot to list my Staredowns. Unfortunately, I only have 2 > (Sabbat packs are in short supply in my area). That's why I use Read > Intentions instead. Might as well go with all Majesties, if you have them. You'll have the pool/blood to untap your minions with it. > I like these with Blood Doll combo...so I kept 2. Good. 3 was too many, since they are unique. > True, but I also only have 2 Assault Rifles (notice a theme here), so I leave > in a third gun for good measure. I still think that if you want to try and avoid combat, you should avoid combat. I would take out all of the guns. > I actually prefer Wakes, too, but I thought most other players didn't. > It's good to hear that some players are on my side! I replaced the Forced > A's with Wakes. Well, regardless of my stand on which card I like better overall, in this deck I think the FAs are better. You are trying to block when you use them, so there is no blood penalty to your vampire (even though they could take it if need be), and you want to be able to block your prey at times. If you block him using a Wake for some reason, you couldn't replace it for a long time. > In my three person group I need to limit my deflection, so I'll leave them in > my personal deck. But you're right, for tournaments they'd be replaced with > more Telepathic Misdirections. I also took out my 2 Legacies of Power, since > I never really liked them and I want to get down to 90 overall. I would think that for your deck, if you don't want to put in deflects, why not just put in intercept and block the bleeds? You can get out of combat in a snap, and you still don't have deflects clogging your hand if one player goes out. > Yet another good point....the Resplendent Protectors are gone. Do you have any Marijava Ghouls? I may have asked that before. =) > OK, it's down to 90! Be careful about going to 90 if you aren't going into any tournaments. I know I'll catch hell for saying this. Unless your group all plays with 90, you may not want to. In one of my old playgroups, everyone liked playing with lots of cards and lots of big vampires. Well 2 of us started making tournament-legal decks. Those decks were not applauded by the others. Tournaments tend to weed out certain decks. Especially decks with big vampires. If your playgroup likes to use big vampires and you come out with a speedy weenie deck, they may not want to play with you any more. Sure it could make them build tournament decks as well. But if your favorite type of deck to play is a big vamp intercept deck, you're not going to get to play it much. I guess my point is, if your group (including yourself) likes playing with no card max more than you do with one, don't. Have fun. Do whatever. As long as you realize that it couldn't be used in a tournament, it's okay. I think you mentioned that you aren't likely to get to any tournaments soon, so don't worry about it. =) > Now that I've dropped to 90, how would you recommend adding more? I've got > six Majesties, 2 Elysiums, and 2 Staredowns. I guess I need to get more > Staredowns, eh? I'd go with Majesties instead, if you have them. Those, then Catatonic Fears. Then to Staredowns. > That could never work...I have enough trouble with 37! I wouldn't want to do one of those decks either.*shudder* p.

Kristyl Meth wrote in message <01be9716$817118a0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... >So if I have Francois, Anneke, Anson, and Klaus, plus my vote card, and my >opponents have zero votes, I can cast ten votes and completely fill Anson >and take two pool?!! If that's the case, maybe I should put more of those >votes back in my deck.... > Almost. You can take up to two of the pool off Anson _after_ he's filled up, leaving him two shy of full capacity... Regards, R. David Zopf Atom Weaver (& V:EKN Prince of Charlotte, NC)

"Richard Zopf" <ze...@mindspring.com> wrote: > Kristyl Meth wrote in message > <01be9716$817118a0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... > > >So if I have Francois, Anneke, Anson, and Klaus, plus my vote card, and my > >opponents have zero votes, I can cast ten votes and completely fill Anson > >and take two pool?!! If that's the case, maybe I should put more of those > >votes back in my deck.... > > > Almost. You can take up to two of the pool off Anson _after_ he's filled > up, leaving him two shy of full capacity... You take the two pool from the Voter Captivation directly from the Blood Bank. It never lands on Anson, so it never has a chance to drain off. You get two; Anson gets eight. Any blood on Anson in excess of his capacity then drains off. -- LSJ (vte...@wizards.com) VTES Net.Rep for Wizards of the Coast. Links to revised rulebook, rulings, errata, and DCI (tournament) rules: http://www.wizards.com/VTES/VTES_Rules.html -----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==---------- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own

> This depends on your playgroup. If you all tend to use bigger vampires, then > the smaller vampires may not be necessary to balance your crypt. You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I thought I'd let you know that in my play group, someone always has a weenie deck with about five or six minions (that deck is very unfocused--he is able to bleed big, block big, combat well, etc.--of course, he needs to get a good crypt and the correct library cards to match :) ). The other person usually has a Brujah or Tremere combat deck with a wide range of vamp ages. My Anson deck crypt is definitely _not_ the norm. > > I wish I had six Fifth Traditions--I've got all of mine in this deck (4).... > > You've got enough pool gain already. The really massive pool gain usually only > works well if that is all you are doing. Those decks tend to just survive the > other decks, until the later rounds when they have quite a few large minions > roaming around. I originally built this deck for massive pool gain only...I thought I had accomplished that...but as I have said in other posts, I am reworking to include TGB and Voter Cap. > The Toreador Grand Ball deck that I use doesn't use PA, but they do add spice. How any different actions are there for Toreadors that aren't bleeds or votes? You use TGB w/out voting, so what exactly do you do? > > >>Fast Hands > > They help sometimes<< > > Down to one for 90 limit. > > I'd still take them all out. See above about Peace Treaty. It's coming out. > Might as well go with all Majesties, if you have them. You'll have the > pool/blood to untap your minions with it. But remember my play group has 6CL..... > I still think that if you want to try and avoid combat, you should avoid > combat. I would take out all of the guns. I really do agree with you, but it's so rare that I get the chance to equip such a pricy weapon...I guess I can't resist the opportunity to finally be able to afford the damn things.... > Well, regardless of my stand on which card I like better overall, in this deck > I think the FAs are better. You are trying to block when you use them, so > there is no blood penalty to your vampire (even though they could take it if > need be), and you want to be able to block your prey at times. If you block > him using a Wake for some reason, you couldn't replace it for a long time. I think I will put some FAs AND Wakes in my new version.... > I would think that for your deck, if you don't want to put in deflects, why not > just put in intercept and block the bleeds? You can get out of combat in a > snap, and you still don't have deflects clogging your hand if one player goes > out. Don't have room for too many intercept cards (even w/out 90 card limit)....so I leave them out entirely > Do you have any Marijava Ghouls? I may have asked that before. =) They're coming.... > out certain decks. Especially decks with big vampires. If your playgroup > likes to use big vampires and you come out with a speedy weenie deck, they may > not want to play with you any more. Sure it could make them build tournament > decks as well. But if your favorite type of deck to play is a big vamp > intercept deck, you're not going to get to play it much. I guess my point is, > if your group (including yourself) likes playing with no card max more than you > do with one, don't. Have fun. Do whatever. As long as you realize that it > couldn't be used in a tournament, it's okay. I think you mentioned that you > aren't likely to get to any tournaments soon, so don't worry about it. =) Not too worried, I just wanted tournament savvy opinions about the deck's likelihood of success in a tournament, just for my own personal info. Thanks for all the help, KM

> You've mentioned this a couple of times, so I thought I'd let you know that > in my play group, someone always has a weenie deck with about five or six > minions (that deck is very unfocused--he is able to bleed big, block big, > combat well, etc.--of course, he needs to get a good crypt and the correct > library cards to match :) ). The other person usually has a Brujah or > Tremere combat deck with a wide range of vamp ages. My Anson deck crypt is > definitely _not_ the norm. That clears up a few things, and will help us when deciding what advice to dish out. Thanks. > I originally built this deck for massive pool gain only...I thought I had > accomplished that...but as I have said in other posts, I am reworking to > include TGB and Voter Cap. Yep. I think we're bouncing around and missing responses. > How any different actions are there for Toreadors that aren't bleeds or > votes? You use TGB w/out voting, so what exactly do you do? Well, the Enchant Kindred, when used to place blood on an uncontrolled, is not a "defined action type". Thus it can be repeated. I may be incorrect here if a vampire cannot use the card type each turn either. Other than that I use Precognizant Mobility to untap whichever vampire I want, and have him take another action. I can hunt to keep my minions full even while draining them each turn. I can recruit the retainers. I do throw in Mind Numbs in force from time to time, depending on if I feel like having them in the deck. But you have to put in a bunch to make them worth it. When I said I didn't have votes in, I meant the current version. When I switch out the Mind Numbs, I switch them out for the PA stuff. > It's coming out. Saw that in other post after I'd sent this. =) > But remember my play group has 6CL..... (regarding Majesties) Right. Forgot about that. Catatonic Fear if you have them, then Staredown. > I really do agree with you, but it's so rare that I get the chance to equip > such a pricy weapon...I guess I can't resist the opportunity to finally be > able to afford the damn things.... Heheheh. I understand totally. Is there a good chance you'll lose the weapon or that it will be useless (opponent prevents or dodges w. additionals)? > I think I will put some FAs AND Wakes in my new version.... That will work. Especially if you keep in some Telepathic Counters. > Don't have room for too many intercept cards (even w/out 90 card limit)....so > I leave them out entirely That's an option. I tend to go for them more. My TGB deck isn't as focused on pool gain, so I have more room for the intercept cards. > They're coming.... (regarding Marijava Ghouls) I saw your other post too late again. =) > Not too worried, I just wanted tournament savvy opinions about the deck's > likelihood of success in a tournament, just for my own personal info. I think the deck is shaping up the way you want it to, and depending on the tables you sit at, it could do alright at a tourney. > Thanks for all the help, Noooo problem. We love this stuff. p.

> Well, the Enchant Kindred, when used to place blood on an uncontrolled, is not > a "defined action type". Thus it can be repeated. I may be incorrect here if > a vampire cannot use the card type each turn either. Other than that I use > Precognizant Mobility to untap whichever vampire I want, and have him take > another action. I can hunt to keep my minions full even while draining them > each turn. I can recruit the retainers. I do throw in Mind Numbs in force > from time to time, depending on if I feel like having them in the deck. But > you have to put in a bunch to make them worth it. When I said I didn't have > votes in, I meant the current version. When I switch out the Mind Numbs, I > switch them out for the PA stuff. Your deck sounds like a keeper...I think I'll model mine after yours with more pool gain and voting.... > Heheheh. I understand totally. Is there a good chance you'll lose the weapon > or that it will be useless (opponent prevents or dodges w. additionals)? Not much chance of losing the weapon...occasional shattering blows...slightly more of a chance of dodges...mostly chance of add'l strikes. I guess I'd only use the weapons against minions without cel. Maybe they won't survive my rework, but the temptation..... > I think the deck is shaping up the way you want it to, and depending on the > tables you sit at, it could do alright at a tourney. Well, next time there's a Praxis: Minnesota I'll be all over it......... > Noooo problem. We love this stuff. It's good to know I'm not alone. My play group isn't as into the game as I am. While I'm constantly building new decks, they are usually only using one that they tweak little by little. Sometimes it's frustrating, especially since they think I'm nuts for liking the game so much. Oh well. All the more reason to beat their asses everytime we play. (Which doesn't actually happen). KM

Patrick Harris <alp...@alpinetaxi.com> wrote: > Well, the Enchant Kindred, when used to place blood on an uncontrolled, is not > a "defined action type". Thus it can be repeated. I may be incorrect here if > a vampire cannot use the card type each turn either. It cannot be repeated under the DCI "No Repeat Action" rule, as explained in the DCI rules [2.5.1]: If it is not one of [the defined types of actions] (i.e., Bum's Rush), then it is a type of its own, by card name. [ quoted text not captured ]

> Your deck sounds like a keeper...I think I'll model mine after yours with > more pool gain and voting.... I actually played it against some friends two weeks ago when I was on vacation. I had the Mind Numbs in. I could have used more pool gain. And more cards. They didn't have any tourney-ready decks built, so they used some of mine and some of theirs that weren't down to 90 cards yet. In that game they all had pool gain decks and I ended up running out of cards before they did. Curses! > Not much chance of losing the weapon...occasional shattering blows...slightly > more of a chance of dodges...mostly chance of add'l strikes. I guess I'd > only use the weapons against minions without cel. Maybe they won't survive my > rework, but the temptation..... Yep. I had a lot better time of it once I had finally decided to just stay out of combat totally. But I don't play the deck often because I like combat. > Well, next time there's a Praxis: Minnesota I'll be all over it......... And when there's a Praxis: B.F.E. Rocky Mountains I'll be there. They do have events in Denver, but that's 4 hours away. Not that big a deal if it wasn't through 3 hours of snowy mountain passes. 2 of which close once a month due to snow and ice. No, I don't get to Denver much from October to May. And damnit we're having a blizzard out right now. > It's good to know I'm not alone. My play group isn't as into the game as I > am. While I'm constantly building new decks, they are usually only using one > that they tweak little by little. Sometimes it's frustrating, especially > since they think I'm nuts for liking the game so much. Oh well. All the > more reason to beat their asses everytime we play. (Which doesn't actually > happen). Your group sounds similar to my old one (er...and I guess still my current one, since I don't have one here). Mine doesn't even keep up with errata/rulings/clarifications. It's miserable to try and explain all the changes since the last time they've played and then get into the game and find out that either one of their decks doesn't work under new (or not so new) rules, or that I missed something and now it's too late. We had a Toreador Majesty deck whose whole theme was bleed heavy and if blocked Majesty to untap and bleed again. Ugh. Other bad things are when someone doesn't know about cards.1: "I'll bleed you for 10" 2: "I'll burn you with Archon Investigation" 1: "What's that? Man, I wouldn't have even tried to do that if I knew there was such a card." If it's in a tourney there's no problem, but with friends you have to let things slide now and then. Still fun though. Can't deny that. I still always have fun. =) p.

> Your group sounds similar to my old one (er...and I guess still my current one, > since I don't have one here). Mine doesn't even keep up with > errata/rulings/clarifications. It's miserable to try and explain all the > changes since the last time they've played and then get into the game and find > out that either one of their decks doesn't work under new (or not so new) > rules, or that I missed something and now it's too late. Oh yeah, well MY group doesn't even care about the errata/rulings/clarifications...whenever I find something out, they either approve or disregard it depending on if they like it or it makes sense to them. But of course, like you said, it's still fun....and sometimes I even "forget" to tell them about a ruling, etc. that I don't like (hehe--the most recent example is using Blythe Candelaria at sup AUS in my Tremere deck--I'm currently debating whether to tell them about my recent discovery that Fame is unique and is now dealt to the controller's vamp--of course, I always eventually break down and tell them the truth). > 1: "What's that? Man, I wouldn't have even tried to do that if I knew there > was such a card." It's as if you were at our last session! =) > If it's in a tourney there's no problem, but with friends you have to let > things slide now and then. Still fun though. Can't deny that. I still always > have fun. =) Amen. KM

Patrick Harris wrote: > > I've never really understood voter captivations...aren't votes like stealth > > and intercept, so that you can only add more when needed to counter other > > votes? So every vote would only pass by one vote, right? If there is a way > > to get more than one, I'd definitely replace the Bribes with Voter > > Captivations...but I'll use neither since I've limited my PA's drastically to > > get my library down to 90. > > You can only *play* votes if you need them, but if you have 8 votes on the > table (from your minions and the PA itself) and your opponents only have 3... You can play vote-gaining effects whether you need them or not. And you can cast votes (in favor or against) whether you need to or not. If the referendum is already passing 10 to 1, you can still play Bewitching Oration to get 4 more votes and cast them in favor as well, making it pass 14 to 1. [...] > > I actually prefer Wakes, too, but I thought most other players didn't. > > It's good to hear that some players are on my side! I replaced the Forced > > A's with Wakes. > > Well, regardless of my stand on which card I like better overall, in this deck > I think the FAs are better. You are trying to block when you use them, so > there is no blood penalty to your vampire [...] There is if you fail to block (like if the acting vampire adds stealth, for instance). The attempt itself is not sufficient - you must successfully block. [ quoted text not captured ]

> You can play vote-gaining effects whether you need them or not. > And you can cast votes (in favor or against) whether you need to or not. > > If the referendum is already passing 10 to 1, you can still play Bewitching Oration > to get 4 more votes and cast them in favor as well, making it pass 14 to 1. Ah. Didn't know that. Thanks. > >>You are trying to block when you use them, so there is no blood penalty to your > vampire[...]<< There is if you fail to block (like if the acting vampire adds > stealth, for instance). > The attempt itself is not sufficient - you must successfully block. That's what I meant. If he's going to want to block then he should prefer to have FA in there. If he's just going to deflect or reduce, then he'll likely want WWEF. I see where what I wrote could have been taken wrong though. Bad and incomplete wording. Thanks for the clarification. p.

> > Well, regardless of my stand on which card I like better overall, in this deck > > I think the FAs are better. You are trying to block when you use them, so > > there is no blood penalty to your vampire [...] > > There is if you fail to block (like if the acting vampire adds stealth, > for instance). > The attempt itself is not sufficient - you must successfully block. So, if I use Forced Awakening and let the bleed go through, but use Telepathic Counter to reduce to zero, does my vamp burn one blood? KM

> It cannot be repeated under the DCI "No Repeat Action" rule, as explained in the > DCI rules [2.5.1]: > > If it is not one of [the defined types of actions] (i.e., Bum's Rush), then it > is a type of its own, by card name. And there we go. Got me again. This is what I get for playing in a group where I'm the only one who tries to keep up with rules. Nobody there to say "Wait, isn't it supposed to be....?" Thanks again, LSJ. p.

Kristyl Meth <dapa...@riderlaw.com> wrote in message news:01be9736$073207a0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com... > > > Well, regardless of my stand on which card I like better overall, in > this deck > > > I think the FAs are better. You are trying to block when you use them, > so > > > there is no blood penalty to your vampire [...] > > > > There is if you fail to block (like if the acting vampire adds stealth, > > for instance). > > The attempt itself is not sufficient - you must successfully block. > > So, if I use Forced Awakening and let the bleed go through, but use > Telepathic Counter to reduce to zero, does my vamp burn one blood? > He burns that extra blood because he didn't successfully block. The action itself was not successful, but that particular vampire wasn't successful in blocking that action either and suffers the consequence of FA. That's why wake is better in bleed deflection decks, it only costs the vampire using the deflection, 1 blood, but it costs two when using Forced Awakening. The reliance on blood in those decks often results in the leaning toward WWEF despite the fact it's not replaced right away (mostly because the only person you're often deflecting bleeds from is from your predator who takes his turn right before yours most of hte time). Vince

Kristyl Meth wrote: > So, if I use Forced Awakening and let the bleed go through, but use > Telepathic Counter to reduce to zero, does my vamp burn one blood? Yes, since the Awakened vampire didn't successfully block. [ quoted text not captured ]

> So, if I use Forced Awakening and let the bleed go through, but use > Telepathic Counter to reduce to zero, does my vamp burn one blood? Yeah. I wasn't clear on my post. Sorry about that. That's why the mix of FA and WWEF is good for you. You'll want to try and block sometimes (use FA there) and you'll want to try and reduce or deflect sometimes (use WWEF there). p.

In article <7go5i4$a95$1...@toto.tig.com.au>, "James B Floate" <flo...@ihug.com.au> wrote: > Kristyl Meth wrote in message > <01be9659$ead2eca0$81a5...@dapatrin.riderlaw.com>... > >This is a deck that is unbeaten in my three-person play circle (maybe > >that's why it's unbeaten). We play with a 6 card-limit and no real limit > >to the total library size. Any suggestions would be appreciated. > > > >ANSON'S FLOWER POWER MEGA POOL GAIN DECK > > [Deck Cut] > > Okay. Well I can suggest a few changes but before I do, I should say that it > looks like you_have_the_right_idea. The toreador prince deck is powerful, > although your first meeting with a serious rush&grapple deck may leave you > unimpressed. > > First, legal deck size is 60-90 cards, everyone on the list plays that way, > talks that way, thinks that way. If you want our advice it will be for a 90 > card deck. You will find that when you reduce the deck it will take a while > to adjust the balance again. Huh, that's not so right... If someone posts a deck and says nothing else, it is assumed he follows the usual DCI rules (no limit, 60-90 cards per deck). But it is perfectly OK to say that you are not playing the official rules and you want some advice *based on that condition*. The poster of the Anson Madness Something deck stated that they have a 6CL and no upper deck limit. Fine. Carl [ quoted text not captured ]