torn+undead

Can you play Undead Strengt after playing Torn Signpost? I think you can but my friend is saying you can`t.. And why there are Fist of Death? Torn Signpost is much better. Brujahs don`t need 5 hand damage (torn+fist) to finish their foes. Torn+blur+pulled fangs is usually more than enough :) ...Marko...

> Can you play Undead Strengt after playing Torn Signpost? > I think you can but my friend is saying you can`t.. Sure. You just can't play Undead Str with another Strike card like Growing Fury. > And why there are Fist of Death? Torn Signpost is much better. > Brujahs don`t need 5 hand damage (torn+fist) to finish their foes. > Torn+blur+pulled fangs is usually more than enough :) Torn is better, but you can combine Fists with Torn... which isn't so amazing for the Brujah, but the Giovanni and Nosferatu like it. Mr. Pynk --- http://www.wulaw.wustl.edu/~tvbarnha/mr_pynk/

In article <50ktb2$s...@tron.sci.fi>, Marko Saari <gu...@sci.fi> wrote: > Can you play Undead Strengt after playing Torn Signpost? > I think you can but my friend is saying you can`t.. Yes. Signpost simply resets your base hand damage. You are free to modify that new base with any strike you like. > And why there are Fist of Death? Torn Signpost is much better. > Brujahs don`t need 5 hand damage (torn+fist) to finish their foes. > Torn+blur+pulled fangs is usually more than enough :) Fists stack, Signposts don't -- ----- L. Scott Johnson (lsc...@crl.com) | The opinions expressed are mine Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger | and subject to card text

>Yes. Signpost simply resets your base hand damage. You are free to >modify that new base with any strike you like. In the V:tES version, it says that the two or three hand damage is a strike which can be used for the remainder of the combat. Joseph

AlmaLadron wrote: "In the V:tES version, it says that the two or three hand damage is a strike which can be used for the remainder of the combat." The text on the VTES version of Torn Signpost is worded very poorly, in a bungled attempt at clarification. The official interperitation of Torn Signpost is identical to the Jyhad version of the card: -Torn Signpost is not a strike card in and of itself. Striking with the new hand damage provided by Torn Signpost could be a vampires strike, but playing Torn Signpost is not a strike, nor does it require you to use Torn Signpost. You can play Torn Signpost and then manuver to long range to throw a Sewer Lid if you are so inclined. -Torn Signpost simply sets a vampires base hand damage at a new value (2 or 3), modified by any other hand damage modifiers (like +1 hand damage on Zack North). -Torn Signpost CAN by augmented by a hand strike card like Undead Strength or Growing Fury. -Torn Signpost CAN be augmented by Fists of Death (2 or 3 times if you would like...). -Torn Signpost is not a "melee weapon" or anything like that (i.e. it does not actually represent the use of a Stop Sign as a weapon). Again, it just sets that vampires base hand damage at a new value. -Melee Weapons (like Bastard Sword) may be used with Torn Signpost to do more damage, but then it is no longer a hand strike, but instead is a weapon strike. -The hand damage provided by Torn Signpost is still hand damage, so it is useable under Immortal Grapple restrictions and can be augmented by Claws of the Dead, et al. Again, the wording on the new VTES version of Torn Signpost is worded very poorly, and when this came up when the new card was printed, the official response from Tom Wiley (the then WOTC Jyhad official Net Rep) was that Torn Signpost is still supposed to work just like the Jyhad version, as detailed above, regardless of the poorly worded VTES version (that implies that it is a strike). Peter D Bakija PD...@aol.com "This is no place for an Entomologist." -Dana Scully

almal...@aol.com (AlmaLadron) writes: >>Yes. Signpost simply resets your base hand damage. You are free to >>modify that new base with any strike you like. >In the V:tES version, it says that the two or three hand damage is a >strike which can be used for the remainder of the combat. Hmmm, you're probably right, but Tom doesn't seem to read it that way: From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Official Word on Torn Sign? Date: 6 Mar 1996 06:09:49 GMT Message-ID: <4hja7d$g...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Torn Signpost sets the base hand damage of the vampire to 2 (or 3) from 1. You can stack strikes like Lucky Blow or Burning Wrath on top of this. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Warning: Dates in Calendar are http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | closer than they appear. Graphics Specialist and V:tES Rulemonger. |

On 5 Sep 1996, PDB6 wrote: > -Torn Signpost is not a "melee weapon" or anything like that (i.e. it does > not actually represent the use of a Stop Sign as a weapon). Again, it > just sets that vampires base hand damage at a new value. > > -Melee Weapons (like Bastard Sword) may be used with Torn Signpost to do > more damage, but then it is no longer a hand strike, but instead is a > weapon strike. > I am a firm believer that this is not so, and Torn Signpost actually represents the use of a torn signpost as a bashing tool, and unless the game designer himself tells me it is not I will probably keep my belief... Used this way (as a melee weapon) you would only prohibit the use of other weapons/claws while using the signpost. This will make it even worse than FoDeath? Yes, but FoD costs 1 blood, and TSP costs nothing. David Pontes 8[

David Pontes (l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt) wrote: : On 5 Sep 1996, PDB6 wrote: : > -Torn Signpost is not a "melee weapon" or anything like that (i.e. it does : > not actually represent the use of a Stop Sign as a weapon). Again, it : > just sets that vampires base hand damage at a new value. : > : > -Melee Weapons (like Bastard Sword) may be used with Torn Signpost to do : > more damage, but then it is no longer a hand strike, but instead is a : > weapon strike. : > : Used this way (as a melee weapon) you would only prohibit the use : of other weapons/claws while using the signpost. This will make it even : worse than FoDeath? Yes, but FoD costs 1 blood, and TSP costs nothing. A vampire with +1 hand damage with inferior Potence would get nothing out of TSP, but he'd still get that +1 hand damage with FoD. A vamp with +1 hand damage with superior Potence will, of course, have a choice between TSP and FoD. And, as LSJ pointed it out, FoDs stack. I don't know what Torn Sign Post represents, but in the picture the sign is not torn from the ground, but is torn at the steel plate. Maybe it is a show ing sign of incresed strength. It's often hard to figure out what a specific card represents... not much flavor text as it used to be. V:TES designers should give a thought to that. Sungil Kim were...@power2.snu.ac.kr : David Pontes : 8[

David Pontes wrote: "I am a firm believer that this is not so, and Torn Signpost actually represents the use of a torn signpost as a bashing tool, and unless the game designer himself tells me it is not I will probably keep my belief..." While I am never one to attempt to disuade someones whole hearted beliefs, the last time this was discussed, the at the time current Net Rep (who is as close to the designer as one is going to get around here) indicated that this is not the case, and Torn Signpost is, in fact, just extra hand damage. Granted, one is perfectly welcome to use this house rule with their play group, I just wanted to make sure that no one is surprised by the actual workings of Torn Signpost at any sort of official event. I could see why someone would take Torn Signpost as a "Melee Weapon" sort of card, but the card says nothing to indicate that it is, it just says that it gives a vampire bigger base hand damage. I have always just assumed that KoKo goes "RRRR! KoKo MAD! Rip up TREES! Tear up SIGNS! BREAK YER HEAD!" (Whack! Whack!) As David pointed out, the only real effect that making Torn Signpost into a "Melee Weapon" sort of card is that it prevents the use of Bastard Swords and Claws of the Dead with Torn Signpost, which there is no real reason to do. Melee weapons are simply not powerful enough to justify a special card ruling to prevent using them to get +1 damage with a Torn Signpost (what does it matter whether Anvil is Blurring on you with a Torn Signpost+Fists of Death, or TS+FoD and a Bastard Sword?), and as I am a veteran of Potence/Protean combat decks, it is so difficult to make an effective "7 points of aggro hand damage" deck, that again, there is no real good reason to make a card ruling to prevent it from using Torn Signpost. Sungil Kim wrote: "A vampire with +1 hand damage with inferior Potence would get nothing out of TSP, but he'd still get that +1 hand damage with FoD." A vampire with inferior Pot and +1 hand damage (like Zack North, for instance) who plays Torn Signpost would have 3 hand damage (2 from TS +1 from his innate ability). If he then played FoD, his hand damage would go up to 4. If he had superior Pot, he would get 4 hand damage from playing TS (3 from TS+1 from innate ability), and then go up to 6 with FoD. Under the pre refit Jyhad hand damage rules, Zack would not benefit from inferior TS, as it gave 2 hand damage and he already had 2 hand damage, but the new VTES hand damage rules changed that to make all hand damage (+)bonuses stack up. [ quoted text not captured ]

David Pontes <l41...@alfa.ist.utl.pt> writes: >On 5 Sep 1996, PDB6 wrote: >> -Torn Signpost is not a "melee weapon" or anything like that (i.e. it does >> not actually represent the use of a Stop Sign as a weapon). Again, it >> just sets that vampires base hand damage at a new value. >> >> -Melee Weapons (like Bastard Sword) may be used with Torn Signpost to do >> more damage, but then it is no longer a hand strike, but instead is a >> weapon strike. >> > I am a firm believer that this is not so, and Torn Signpost >actually represents the use of a torn signpost as a bashing tool, and >unless the game designer himself tells me it is not I will probably keep >my belief... Since Richard Garfield doesn't frequent these parts, how about a clarification from Tom? From: aa...@cats.ucsc.edu (Thomas R Wylie) Newsgroups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad Subject: Re: Official Word on Torn Sign? Date: 9 Mar 1996 06:50:06 GMT Message-ID: <4hr9mu$a...@darkstar.UCSC.EDU> Torn Signpost simply resets the vampire's base hand damage; using the boosted hand damage is not, in and of itself, a strike. I've already corrected customer service on this. Tom Wylie rec.games.trading-cards.* Network Representative for aa...@cats.ucsc.edu Wizards of the Coast, Inc. -- L. Scott Johnson (sjoh...@math.sc.edu) | Beatings will continue http://www.math.sc.edu/~sjohnson | until morale improves. [ quoted text not captured ]