rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

List of questions of the Paris EC 2010 Quizz

53 messages from 19 participants · 13 December 2010 – 16 December 2010
original thread on Google Groups

floppyzedolfin

Hello, Here's my list of questions for the EC 2010's quizz. Orian has his somewhere (I think). Since the list of answers is quite long and absolutely unreadable, send me an e-mail if you want it (plus, it's probably not complete. I was using the ARDB to check artworks and quotes). They were not all asked. A - Generic questions 1/ How many European Championships of VTES have been organized, not including Paris 2010 ? 2/ Where did the previous ECs happen? 3/ Who are the previous EC winners? B - Questions about Paris 1/ What was Paris' previous name? 2/ In which century did the city change its name to Paris? 3/ In which century did Paris become France's capital? 4/ When was the Eiffel Tower built? 5/ Which city is twin-city with Paris? 6/ What is the name of the bike rental service in Paris? 7/ In which year was Paris' metro opened? 8/ List all crypt and library cards referring to Paris, a place in Paris (including titles). C - Knowing the cards 1/ What is the biggest amount a minion could bleed at, given as many turns and blood / pool as necessary, using only cards in his deck + crypt? (two answers give a pretty fair amount, one of them uses a 12- card crypt, the other doesn't) 2/ What is the biggest handstrike value a strike can have? 3/ How many Obfuscate action modifiers can be played on a single action (you may decide what the action is) ? If the base action is at +1 stealth, what is the total stealth bonus ? 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? 5/ Adana de Sforza has an Ankara Citadel and plays Burning Wratch against Lucian, the Perfect. How much blood does Adana burn ? 6/ The opposing vampire plays Blissful Agony superior, and would send me to fight Lorrie. If I play Staredown at superior, can I play Psyche! ? If I play Staredown at inferior, can I play Psyche! ? 7/ Normal (who has 1 strength) hits a Nephandus with his Weighted Walking Stick. How many counters are removed from the WWS ? 8/ Mylan is blocked by a vampire. In the combat, Mylan dodges, the opposing vampire plays Catatonic Fear (sup). Does Mylan burn? D - Trivia questions 1/ Which vampires from Jyhad and V:tES have been merged into one, due to a copyright issue of the artwork? 2/ Which set (boosters + starters) had the biggest number of different cards, including reprints? 3/ Which set introduced the biggest number of different cards? 4/ Which sets had the top 3 biggest number of cards in the boosters? 5/ Which cards have had 3 or more artworks? 6/ Which set dropped the "tm" for a "R" after "DECKMASTER", on the backside of the cards? 7/ Which library cards from Jyhad aren't in V:tES? 7'/ Which library cards are in V:tES but weren't in Jyhad? 8/ Which cards were introduced with the 10th Anniversary packs? 9/ Who are the artists of the different versions of the Anarch Troublemaker card? 10/ Name people (players, staff, ...) who have been used as artworks for cards. 11/ Which cards quote Depeche Mode? 12/ Which (physically) is the biggest card? 13/ Which vampire uses "status counters" ? 14/ List all non-Samedi vampires with thanatosis (inferior or superior). 15/ Which cards were banned, and later un-banned? 16/ How many Creeds is there? How many virtues is there? 17/ For each discipline, give the name of one of the smallest vampires to have that discipline at superior. E - Other 1/ As you might know, Pulp Fiction's poster was edited in France, and they removed the shocking items from the picture. No, not the gun. The cigarette. Help us find the crypt cards with cigarette ( / cigar / anything that the crypt card is smoking) on the artwork [it was added that the thing the vampire / imbued was smoking had to be visible on the artwork.] 2/ Which imbueds don't have a nickname (using double quotes in their name), or don't have a nickname ending with a number? 3/ Is there more men or women amongst the Imbueds? Or is it a tie? 4/ Which crypt card have more than one artworks ? (for this question, base and advanced vampire are distinct -- Karsh and Karsh adv aren't considered the same vampire) 5/ Which card in Heirs to the Blood has kept the artwork it had in Sabbat? 6/ Who is the model used for Camille Devereux's artwork?

echia...@yahoo.com

No offense, but aren't some of these questions really kind of silly? These probably aren't the "official" answers you are looking for but... (these are rough estimates, you might be able to do some minor optimizing with tweaking but you get the main idea) On Dec 13, 8:57 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > C - Knowing the cards > 1/ What is the biggest amount a minion could bleed at, given as many > turns and blood / pool as necessary, using only cards in his deck + > crypt? (two answers give a pretty fair amount, one of them uses a 12- > card crypt, the other doesn't) (For crypts greater than 12): Infinite (or near infinite, depending on the number of Group 3/4 of 4/5 Caitiff that have been printed). Al- Muntaquim the Avenger + as many Caitiff as you can possibly lay your hands on (or have ever been printed). > 2/ What is the biggest handstrike value a strike can have? Probably something to do with: Trap + a ridiculous number of Fires in the Blood + up to 2 cards (for cost reduction or range setting). Cailean: Trap + Clan Impersonation Ankara Citadel + Shilmulo Tarot + all other cards are Fire in the Blood You could also do Merged Menele + Helena, substituting Infernal Familiar + Fear of the Void Below instead of CI + Ankara. Besides the Trap + CI + Ankara + Shimulo, the remaining cards (446) are Fire in the Blood. By passing around the Shilmulo Tarot, you can have all players' libraries on the Tarot. The initial 7 card hands are harder to retrieve, but you can claim 2 more cards from each player by reducing hand sizes with Jan Pieterzoon and Angra Mainyu, while passing around control of Pochtli. So assume that 5 cards from 4 players are unretrievable, resulting in 426 Fires in the Blood that will be played. With Cailean, you play Trap and Fire in the Blood, and then every 4 rounds you play another Fire in the Blood to reset the Trap. You set range to long every round until the very last With 426 Fires in the Blood, that should last around 1704 combat rounds, meaning that the first Fire in the Blood now gives you +3407 hand damage. The second gives you +3399, third is +3391, and the last one is +7. Add it all up and you should have around +727,182 hand strength. You can get an additional +1 if you're beating up poor Basil. > 3/ How many Obfuscate action modifiers can be played on a single > action (you may decide what the action is) ? If the base action is at > +1 stealth, what is the total stealth bonus ? A ridiculous amount due to Mask of a Thousand Faces. You have 1 Shilmulo Tarot and 449 Mask of a Thousand Faces. This time you have to play Group 6. Using the Jan + Angra + Pochtli trick (you can borrow Pocthli thanks to Josette), you can get access all but about 5 cards from each other player, so 429 Masks. You now influence out 430 Hordes (isn't it great that they're unique?), and go ahead and play 429 Mask of a Thousand Faces. > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? That's subjective. Depends on how you define a Turbo deck and what is considered first. Arika + Soul Gem was around long before The Baron. But there were certainly Soul Gem decks back in the Jyhad days, though whether or not they're sufficiently "turbo" (increasing your capacity was harder back then) is a matter of opinion.

Vincent

On 14 déc, 01:50, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com> wrote: > > > 2/ What is the biggest handstrike value a strike can have? > > Probably something to do with: Trap + a ridiculous number of Fires in > the Blood + up to 2 cards (for cost reduction or range setting). > > Cailean: Trap + Clan Impersonation Ankara Citadel + Shilmulo Tarot + > all other cards are Fire in the Blood > > You could also do Merged Menele + Helena, substituting Infernal > Familiar + Fear of the Void Below instead of CI + Ankara. > > Besides the Trap + CI + Ankara + Shimulo, the remaining cards (446) > are Fire in the Blood. How do you manage to play 446 Fire in the Blood using a 90-cards deck? And what is the use of the Shilmulo Tarot?

Vincent

On 13 déc, 15:57, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > C - Knowing the cards > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck. > 5/ Adana de Sforza has an Ankara Citadel and plays Burning Wratch > against Lucian, the Perfect. How much blood does Adana burn ? 1. Adana and Lucian's specials are applied first, negating each other, then Adana burns half the blood to pay the card, rounded down. > 6/ The opposing vampire plays Blissful Agony superior, and would send > me to fight Lorrie. If I play Staredown at superior, can I play > Psyche! ? No. There's another combat queued. > If I play Staredown at inferior, can I play Psyche! ? Yes, the dodge protects from any negative effects, including starting a new combat with Lorrie. A new combat may then be started with Psyche! > 7/ Normal (who has 1 strength) hits a Nephandus with his Weighted > Walking Stick. How many counters are removed from the WWS ? 1 because the damage was reduced, not prevented. > 8/ Mylan is blocked by a vampire. In the combat, Mylan dodges, the > opposing vampire plays Catatonic Fear (sup). Does Mylan burn? No, dodge protects from any negative effects from the opposing strike. > D - Trivia questions > 1/ Which vampires from Jyhad and V:tES have been merged into one, due > to a copyright issue of the artwork? Camille Devereux, the Raven. > 13/ Which vampire uses "status counters" ? Aziz. > 4/ Which crypt card have more than one artworks ? (for this question, > base and advanced vampire are distinct -- Karsh and Karsh adv aren't > considered the same vampire) Daliyah, Leandro among others.

floppyzedolfin

On Dec 14, 11:25 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 13 déc, 15:57, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote:> C - Knowing the cards > 5/ Adana de Sforza has an Ankara Citadel and plays Burning Wrath > > against Lucian, the Perfect. How much blood does Adana burn ? > > 1. Adana and Lucian's specials are applied first, negating each other, > then Adana burns half the blood to pay the card, rounded down. Yes, but.. multiplication / division are applied first, and then we handle addition / substraction. ( http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/f1d08997ed515634 ) 3/2 rounds down to 1. 1-1+1 = 1.

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] You ignore the restriction given on using only cards in your own deck. :-) 90 library cards /player * 5 players = 450 library cards. > And what is the use of the Shilmulo Tarot? It enables you to use the cards in other player's decks (which the question prohibits).

echia...@yahoo.com

On Dec 14, 7:14 am, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > You ignore the restriction given on using only cards in your own > deck. :-) > > 90 library cards /player * 5 players = 450 library cards. > > It enables you to use the cards in other player's decks (which the > question prohibits).- Hide quoted text - Only the first question seems to include that restriction. The other questions do not seem to specify any such limitations.

LSJ

On Dec 14, 8:42 am, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] Ah, then the answer is much bigger: just add more players.

Amenophobis

[ quoted text not captured ] I don't get it. How does Shilmulo Tarot enable you to play cards from other decks?

LSJ

On Dec 14, 9:13 am, Amenophobis <preache...@gmx.at> wrote: > I don't get it. How does Shilmulo Tarot enable you to play cards from > other decks? Pass the Tarot around (diablerie is one method of doing this without costing cards). Let each player load xer entire deck onto the Tarot before passing it along to the next player.

Peter D Bakija

On Dec 14, 5:25 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote: > > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? > > Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck As noted, I'm confused as to how one can determine what was or was not the first "turbo" deck, and what vampire was in it. I'm sure that someone, at some point when all that existed was, say, VTES and Dark Soverigns, figured out that they could use Freak Drive, Soul Gem, some Ventrue, and Praxis Berlin to have an endless cycle of self burning Force of Will bleeds by emptying one's self with whatever handy cards cost blood or when AH came out using Spiradionas with the same trick and Vials of Elder Vitae. Just being nit-picky. -Peter

The Lasombra

> On Dec 14, 5:25 am, Vincent wrote: >>> 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? > Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck Aurora Van Brande preceded Lucita by a number of years, on JOL. On Dec 14, 9:52 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > As noted, I'm confused as to how one can determine what was or was not > the first "turbo" deck, and what vampire was in it. Probably only by looking at the TWDA, at this point. Lucita might be first, but I suspect Arika was right around the same time.

LSJ

On Dec 14, 9:52 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] The first mention of this kind of deck on USENET seems to be this one, using Arika: http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b0188e72961e35e1 (with mention of a possibly not-quite-turbo version using Spirodonas in a follow-up) Not that that means no one ever put together such a deck with some other vampire in some local game among a group of players that don't read USENET groups, of course.

Amenophobis

[ quoted text not captured ] lol Ok, didn't think of that. That is ... pretty convoluted and expects all players not playing to win. But ok. :)

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Usenet timeline: 2001 0729 Arika 2002 0622 Baron 2002 0831 Lucita (Damnans)

floppyzedolfin

On Dec 14, 4:20 pm, LSJ <vtes...@white-wolf.com> wrote: > On Dec 14, 9:52 am, Peter D Bakija <p...@lightlink.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > On Dec 14, 5:25 am, Vincent <v.rip...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? > > > > Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck > > > As noted, I'm confused as to how one can determine what was or was not > > the first "turbo" deck, and what vampire was in it. I'm sure that > > someone, at some point when all that existed was, say, VTES and Dark > > Soverigns, figured out that they could use Freak Drive, Soul Gem, some > > Ventrue, and Praxis Berlin to have an endless cycle of self burning > > Force of Will bleeds by emptying one's self with whatever handy cards > > cost blood or when AH came out using Spiradionas with the same trick > > and Vials of Elder Vitae. > > > Just being nit-picky. > > The first mention of this kind of deck on USENET seems to be this one, > using Arika:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b018... > > (with mention of a possibly not-quite-turbo version using Spirodonas > in a follow-up) > > Not that that means no one ever put together such a deck with some > other vampire in some local game among a group of players that don't > read USENET groups, of course. Arika was indeed the answer that was expected. It was answer given when the question was asked. Now, if anyone has trace of existing Turbos (turbo == cycle through your deck in a single turn, and, in the process of doing so, oust several methuselahs) anterior to that one, I'd be happy to know of it :)

The Lasombra

On Dec 14, 10:41 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? > > > > Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck > > The first mention of this kind of deck on USENET seems to be this one, > > using Arika:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/b018... Recycling Aurora dates back to 1999.

Wedge

> C - Knowing the cards > 1/ What is the biggest amount a minion could bleed at, given as many > turns and blood / pool as necessary, using only cards in his deck + > crypt? (two answers give a pretty fair amount, one of them uses a 12- > card crypt, the other doesn't) Spiridonus w/ Anrkra citadel govern condition command 24 bleed > 2/ What is the biggest handstrike value a strike can have? Corrupt Construction made using Dambi Revant's burn option. I would guess you could get to 20 handstrike in a real deck. > 3/ How many Obfuscate action modifiers can be played on a single > action (you may decide what the action is) ? If the base action is at > +1 stealth, what is the total stealth bonus ? I have seen 7 played on one action > 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? I don't know. might as well ask who made it and where it was played. > 5/ Adana de Sforza has an Ankara Citadel and plays Burning Wratch > against Lucian, the Perfect. How much blood does Adana burn ? one > 6/ The opposing vampire plays Blissful Agony superior, and would send > me to fight Lorrie. If I play Staredown at superior, can I play > Psyche! ? If I play Staredown at inferior, can I play Psyche! ? no. yes. > 7/ Normal (who has 1 strength) hits a Nephandus with his Weighted > Walking Stick. How many counters are removed from the WWS ? one > 8/ Mylan is blocked by a vampire. In the combat, Mylan dodges, the > opposing vampire plays Catatonic Fear (sup). Does Mylan burn? no

The Lasombra

On Tue, 14 Dec 2010 07:35:01 -0800 (PST), LSJ wrote: >> >>> 4/ Which vampire was in the first Turbo deck? >> > Lucita, in the turbo Lucita deck >> >> Aurora Van Brande preceded Lucita by a number of years, on JOL. >Usenet timeline: >2001 0729 Arika >2002 0622 Baron >2002 0831 Lucita (Damnans) 1998, Aurora Van Brande, Chris Berger http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/674e8c8ee999784e

Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] > http://groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/674e... I like that Chris's concern was getting 10 Soul Gems for the deck, not worrying about 18 Camarilla Vitae Slaves. :) I know Turbo Baron came after Turbo Arika, since I based the idea on Turbo Arika. Later, ~Rehlow

Rehlow

[ quoted text not captured ] 2002 0130 Turbo Baron appears in a post called The Combo. Arika was the inspiration. I wish I remembered when I first came up with it, since I played it for awhile locally before sharing it online. > 2002 0622 Baron > 2002 0831 Lucita (Damnans) Later, ~Rehlow

Peter D Bakija

On Dec 14, 10:10 am, The Lasombra <thelasom...@hotmail.com> wrote: > Aurora Van Brande preceded Lucita by a number of years, on JOL. Yeah, I certainly remember trying to theoretically construct such a deck using Aurora Van Brande in the late 90's when standing around a chalkboard with Wampler. It was completely theoretical as at the time, no one had enough Freak Drives, let alone the Camarilla Vitae Slaves. But the pieces all existed long, long ago. > Probably only by looking at the TWDA, at this point. Ah, ok. So the question was actually "Who was the vampire in the first turbo deck *in the TWDA*". Which is a different question. -Peter

Juggernaut1981

[ quoted text not captured ] Biggest Bleed using one vampire: Lucian the Perfect. Lucian the Perfect (+3 bleed built in) 4-Bleed 11 Orun Legendary Vampire (+2 bleed) 6-bleed Heart of the City (+2 bleed) 8-bleed Pulse of the Canaille (+3 bleed) 11-bleed Brutal Influence (+1 from the Action, +11 from Tapping Oruns) 23-bleed Command the Beast (+1 bleed) 24-bleed Conditioning (+3 bleed) 27-bleed Biggest Bleed using non-12 vampire crypt: Create a deck with a Crypt containing X Mexico Circle Vampires. The deck will hold 10 Unwholesome Bonds, 10 Agent of Power, 10 Sanguine Instructions, 10 Walk of Caine, 10 Computer Hacking, 10 Freak Drives Use the Agent of Power for SAN, Teach SAN to as many Mexicans as you can. Unwholesome Bond the rest of your uncontrolled area out. When you have all your Mexicans on the table... say a nice handy... 45. Mexican A uses Computer Hack (+1 bleed) Walk of Caine = your entire Crypt of X (+X bleed) Total = As large as you can make your crypt, assuming infinite time without being ousted and anything else you need...

Peter D Bakija

On Dec 14, 3:30 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Biggest Bleed using one vampire: Lucian the Perfect. > Lucian the Perfect (+3 bleed built in) 4-Bleed > 11 Orun > Legendary Vampire (+2 bleed) 6-bleed > Heart of the City (+2 bleed) 8-bleed > Pulse of the Canaille (+3 bleed) 11-bleed > Brutal Influence (+1 from the Action, +11 from Tapping Oruns) 23-bleed > Command the Beast (+1 bleed) 24-bleed > Conditioning (+3 bleed) 27-bleed +1 for a Leverage, +1 for a Laptop, +1 for JS Simmons and +1 for the other one who does that, +2 for the guy who burns a blood each turn. There are probably other ones I'm not remembering (possibly Into the Fire/Pentex Loves You or something...) > Biggest Bleed using non-12 vampire crypt: > Create a deck with a Crypt containing X Mexico Circle Vampires. > The deck will hold 10 Unwholesome Bonds, 10 Agent of Power, 10 > Sanguine Instructions, 10 Walk of Caine, 10 Computer Hacking, 10 Freak > Drives > > Use the Agent of Power for SAN, Teach SAN to as many Mexicans as you > can. Unwholesome Bond the rest of your uncontrolled area out. When > you have all your Mexicans on the table... say a nice handy... 45. Well, in theory, using this system, you can have an bleed of infinite. Your crypt is an infinite number of Hermana Menors. You bring them all out, put blood dolls on all of them, they all hunt with Hungry Coyote over and over again generating infinite pool to get out the infinite number of Hermanas in your crypt. You go to bleed for 1+ Walk of Caine for + infinite bleed. But yeah, what he said. -Peter

Meej

On Dec 14, 3:30 pm, Juggernaut1981 <brasscompo...@gmail.com> wrote: > Biggest Bleed using one vampire: Lucian the Perfect. Spiridonas (9 cap, pot pre DOM THA) gets a Legendary Vampire (2 bleed 1 card) 1 potence, 1 presence, and 2 of each other discipline master (+16 capacity, 16 cards), Equips the Codex of the Edenic Groundskeepers and Inveraray Scotland (2 more cards), fills Inveraray up to 3 counters (3 bleed), Gains a Pulse of the Canaille and a Heart of the City (2 more cards, 4 more bleed), Clan Impersonates to Lasombra (1), and Employs 67 Camarilla Vitae Slaves (+67 capacity, 67 cards), hunting etc as needed to gain blood and pool. He then bleeds your helpfully tapped out low-pool prey with the Codex for 4(codex) +3(Inveraray)+4(Pulse and Heart)+2(LV)+89(his own special for 91 blood, since he's a 92 cap)+ Foreshadowing Destruction for 3 = 105. - D.J.

suoli

[ quoted text not captured ] Lucian with 1x Inveraray + 1x Codex + 1x Conditioning + 87x Spying Mission = 4 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 174 = 187 without infinite Horde shenanigans.

Meej

[ quoted text not captured ] Actually, your Miguel Santo Domingo that's also in play can burn a blood to give Spiri (since he's a Lasombra now) +1 bleed, and the Prince Marcus Vitel you have out gives him another +1 bleed, so that's 107, I think. - D.J.

Meej

On Dec 14, 4:43 pm, suoli <suoliruse...@gmail.com> wrote: > Lucian with 1x Inveraray + 1x Codex + 1x Conditioning + 87x Spying > Mission = 4 + 3 + 3 + 3 + 174 = 187 without infinite Horde shenanigans. Nice. - D.J.

floppyzedolfin

[ quoted text not captured ] I think that's something close to the people's best answer. There was a "funny" one which only involved 2 action modifiers (played in the action), for an approximative total of 120. However, my result is approx 2500.

Blooded Sand

[ quoted text not captured ] There is an infinite bleed available Al-Muntaquim, The Avenger Clan: True Brujah (group 4) Capacity: 8 Disciplines: FOR POT TEM obf pre Independent: During your untap phase, you may burn a Caitiff you control to give Al-Muntaquim +1 bleed for the remainder of the game. Al-Muntaquim untaps whenever a Gehenna card is played. He cannot use cards that require Celerity [cel]. Scarce. Hand of Conrad Type: Equipment Cost: 1 pool Unique equipment. The vampire with this equipment has superior Potence [POT]. As an action, the vampire with this equipment may move a vampire from your ash heap to your uncontrolled region. Any caitiff. Any Hunting Ground, vessel, infinite bleed after infinite turns.

suoli

On 15 joulu, 00:21, Blooded Sand <sandm...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There is an infinite bleed available > Al-Muntaquim, The Avenger > Clan: True Brujah (group 4) > Capacity: 8 > Disciplines: FOR POT TEM obf pre > Independent: During your untap phase, you may burn a Caitiff you > control to give Al-Muntaquim +1 bleed for the remainder of the game. > Al-Muntaquim untaps whenever a Gehenna card is played. He cannot use > cards that require Celerity [cel]. Scarce. > > Hand of Conrad > Type: Equipment > Cost: 1 pool > Unique equipment. > The vampire with this equipment has superior Potence [POT]. As an > action, the vampire with this equipment may move a vampire from your > ash heap to your uncontrolled region. > > Any caitiff. Any Hunting Ground, vessel, infinite bleed after infinite > turns. The edge can handle pool gain. That's probably the only infinite bleed with a less than infinite crypt. Cool.

floppyzedolfin

[ quoted text not captured ] Yup, that one works. There's also some stupid stuff doable with Andre LeRoux and non-unique vampires.

Haze

On Dec 13, 8:57 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > E - Other > 1/ As you might know, Pulp Fiction's poster was edited in France, and > they removed the shocking items from the picture. No, not the gun. The > cigarette. Help us find the crypt cards with cigarette ( / cigar / > anything that the crypt card is smoking) on the artwork [it was added > that the thing the vampire / imbued was smoking had to be visible on > the artwork.] Hector Sosa Merrill Molitor Joe "Boot" Hill Timothy Crowley Tatiana Romanova Hadrian Garrick Radeyah (?) Dani Korah Uncle George Tony Cock Robin Jesús Alcalá Almodo Giovanni Anna "Dictatrix11" Suljic Dominique Santo Paulo Gwen Brand Nunzio Giovanni Garret > 5/ Which card in Heirs to the Blood has kept the artwork it had in > Sabbat? Auspex

Robert Scythe

On Dec 13, 6:57 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: >12/ Which (physically) is the biggest card? Promo Lucita >6/ Who is the model used for Camille Devereux's artwork? Stephanie Seymour

Izaak

>Biggest Bleed using one vampire: Lucian the Perfect. >Lucian the Perfect (+3 bleed built in) 4-Bleed >11 Orun >Legendary Vampire (+2 bleed) 6-bleed >Heart of the City (+2 bleed) 8-bleed >Pulse of the Canaille (+3 bleed) 11-bleed >Brutal Influence (+1 from the Action, +11 from Tapping Oruns) 23-bleed >Command the Beast (+1 bleed) 24-bleed >Conditioning (+3 bleed) 27-bleed Give Lucian discipline cards and sanguine instructions to make him 50 capacity. You need 39 cards for this. Clan impersonate to Ishtarri. 1 card. The 50 other cards in the deck are Despirals, that you stack on Lucian and fill up over the course of a LOT of turns. Lucian now bleeds for 2504.

Peter D Bakija

On Dec 15, 5:17 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Give Lucian discipline cards and sanguine instructions to make him 50 > capacity. You need 39 cards for this. > Clan impersonate to Ishtarri. 1 card. > The 50 other cards in the deck are Despirals, that you stack on Lucian and > fill up over the course of a LOT of turns. > > Lucian now bleeds for 2504. Nice. -Peter

extrala

On Dec 15, 11:17 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > .. > Give Lucian discipline cards and sanguine instructions to make him 50 > capacity. You need 39 cards for this. > Clan impersonate to Ishtarri. 1 card. > The 50 other cards in the deck are Despirals, that you stack on Lucian and > fill up over the course of a LOT of turns. > > Lucian now bleeds for 2504. Hah, using Ankara Citadel I can top that: * Clan Impersonation Tremere * Ankara Citadel * Clan Impersonation Istarri * 21 Discipline/Sanguine Instructions Gives Lucian a capacity of 32, so he's being able to pay for 65 counters on each Despiral card. This leaves room for 66 Despirals, so the total bleed is 1 + 3 + 65*66 = 4290 Best regards, Ralf

extrala

[ quoted text not captured ] Unless Ankara Citadel doesn't reduce the cost for putting counters on Despirals. :(

floppyzedolfin

On Dec 15, 1:57 pm, extrala <ralf.lamm...@gmx.de> wrote: [ quoted text not captured ] The "same clan" requirement of Sanguine Instruction would require some Clan Imps (the easiest way of doing it would be + 1 Sargon Fragment -1 Despiral)

LSJ

On Dec 15, 5:17 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Give Lucian discipline cards and sanguine instructions to make him 50 > capacity. You need 39 cards for this. I think you need more details here. The obvious method implied by the shorthand above doesn't work. Card text will put an end to that at 24 (Discipline cards and/or Sanguine Instructions for the 12 non-BL Disciplines he doesn't already have). Meeting the "same clan" and "has at superior" bits of Sanguine Instruction will mean using some of those remaining card slots for more Clan Impersonations. [ quoted text not captured ]

LSJ

[ quoted text not captured ] Correct. Card text.

LSJ

On Dec 13, 7:50 pm, "echiang...@yahoo.com" <echiang...@yahoo.com> wrote: > On Dec 13, 8:57 am, floppyzedolfin <floppyzedol...@gmail.com> wrote: > > C - Knowing the cards > > 1/ What is the biggest amount a minion could bleed at, given as many > > turns and blood / pool as necessary, using only cards in his deck + > > crypt? (two answers give a pretty fair amount, one of them uses a 12- > > card crypt, the other doesn't) > > (For crypts greater than 12): Infinite (or near infinite, depending on > the number of Group 3/4 of 4/5 Caitiff that have been printed). Al- > Muntaquim the Avenger + as many Caitiff as you can possibly lay your > hands on (or have ever been printed). You only need a crypt of 2 and a library of 1 to make it to infinity (i.e., as large as you like). Crypt: Al-Muntaquim Andy (for example) Library: Hand of Conrad

Izaak

"LSJ" <vte...@white-wolf.com> schreef in bericht news:12973b84-8715-4159...@i32g2000pri.googlegroups.com... On Dec 15, 5:17 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Give Lucian discipline cards and sanguine instructions to make him 50 > capacity. You need 39 cards for this. >I think you need more details here. The obvious method implied by the >shorthand above doesn't work. >Card text will put an end to that at 24 (Discipline cards and/or >Sanguine Instructions for the 12 non-BL Disciplines he doesn't already >have). Ye I missed the same clan part here, although it seems obvious that the highest bleed amount attainable without eating Caitiff is to be attained by stacking Despirals. Since Camarilla Vitae Slave exists, it's probably best to use Nahir, get Vitae Slaves until some ideal capacity, then Clan Impersonate to Ishtarri and start getting Despirals. If I'm not mistaken this would lead to the following equation (x is amount of Vitae Slaves) Bleed Amount = 2 + (10+x)(89-x) The 2 is from Nahir's +1 bleed. This function can be written as B(x) = x^2+79x+892 and maximizes for x=39,5. Obviously we can't put half cards in our library, so we have to use either 39 Vitae Slaves or 40 and unsurprisingly both these give the same amount of total bleed. So basically: Nahir recruits 40 Camarilla Vitae Slaves, making his capacity 50. Nahir then Clan Impersonates to Ishtarri. Nahir gets 49 Despirals, filling them all up over the course of a LOT of turns. Total bleed: 2452. Floppy said he had around 2500, but I can't for the life of me think up a way to get more bleed.

John Flournoy

On Dec 15, 9:40 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > "LSJ" <vtes...@white-wolf.com> schreef in berichtnews:12973b84-8715-4159...@i32g2000pri.googlegroups.com... > On Dec 15, 5:17 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > > Since Camarilla Vitae Slave exists, it's probably best to use Nahir, get > Vitae Slaves until some ideal capacity, then Clan Impersonate to Ishtarri > and start getting Despirals. It'd be 1 point better to start with Melinda Galbraith, who gets the 40 CVSlaves, then merges (giving her +2 bleed instead of Nahir's +1), then CI's to Ishtarri and Despirals like crazy. -John Flournoy

floppyzedolfin

On Dec 15, 4:40 pm, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Since Camarilla Vitae Slave exists, it's probably best to use Nahir, get > Vitae Slaves until some ideal capacity, then Clan Impersonate to Ishtarri > and start getting Despirals. > If I'm not mistaken this would lead to the following equation (x is amount > of Vitae Slaves) > > Bleed Amount = 2 + (10+x)(89-x) > The 2 is from Nahir's +1 bleed. > > This function can be written as B(x) = x^2+79x+892 and maximizes for x=39,5. > Obviously we can't put half cards in our library, so we have to use either > 39 Vitae Slaves or 40 and unsurprisingly both these give the same amount of > total bleed. > > So basically: > > Nahir recruits 40 Camarilla Vitae Slaves, making his capacity 50. > Nahir then Clan Impersonates to Ishtarri. > Nahir gets 49 Despirals, filling them all up over the course of a LOT of > turns. > > Total bleed: 2452. > > Floppy said he had around 2500, but I can't for the life of me think up a > way to get more bleed. Using Lucian (11-cap) Discard a card (Despiral) Lucian Clan Imps to Lasombra. (89 cards left in the deck) Lucian's capacity is increased by x (CVS, discipline skill-cards, ...) Lucian burns Clan Imp. Undele returns Clan Imp, Despiral to the hand (discard 2 Despiral) Lucian plays Clan Imp to Ishtarri. Play 89-x Despirals Lucian performs the Despiral action x+11 for each of the 89-x Despirals. Total capacity: 11+x. Total bleed: 1 + 3 (Lucian) + (11+x)*(89-x) = -x^2 + 79 x + O(1) Maximum at x=39 Value: 1 + 3 + 50 * 50 = 2504. There might be more, but this is my max so far.

Meej

On Dec 15, 10:40 am, "Izaak" <nom...@usenet.plz> wrote: > Ye I missed the same clan part here, although it seems obvious that the > highest bleed amount attainable without eating Caitiff is to be attained by > stacking Despirals. At which point, does it make sense to go back to Spiridonas, for that last oomph of bleed? Pochtli can recycle the Clan Impersonation for you so you only need one. 1+(9+x-2)+(9+x)*(89-x) B(x)= -x^2 + 81x + 809 Max is 40.5, so for x = 40 that's 2449. Nope, Lucian's bigger. Oh, well - posting this to save someone else the trouble of the calculation. - D.J.

Izaak

>Total capacity: 11+x. >Total bleed: 1 + 3 (Lucian) + (11+x)*(89-x) = -x^2 + 79 x + O(1) >Maximum at x=39 >Value: 1 + 3 + 50 * 50 = 2504. Ah ye, I missed that if you can find a way to recycle the Clan Impersonation that'd safe a card. Good catch. Note that it gives the same amount of bleed as my original idea where I missed the same clan requirement on Sanguine Instruction. Basically it's 1 card for 1 capacity and then you just take the 11-cap with the most +bleed. > There might be more, but this is my max so far. I don't think it gets higher.

Wedge

[ quoted text not captured ] Total Blood Cost: 63588 CI 4 CVS 34 Despiral 63550 Total Actions: 66096 CI 2 CVS 17 Despiral 2500 Hunts 63577 Turns needed to get 2504 bleed,assuming prefect seating and libary is 66099. BloodSands solutions would bring you too 66096 bleed at this point. If a third vampire was taking the Hand of Conrad actions, Al-Muntaquim could have been bleeding the enter time for "Functionality". [ quoted text not captured ]

Wedge

I got the blood cost for Despiral wrong it should only be 61,300.

Blooded Sand

[ quoted text not captured ] And of course you could just add the despiral trick to this and add x where x is max minus some insignificantly small number (insignificant when compared to infity ) amount from despiral

librarian

[ quoted text not captured ] Does spying mission change the bleed amount, or merely the amount of pool removed? chris

Wedge

[ quoted text not captured ] Looks like bleed amount after said bleed is successful.

suoli

[ quoted text not captured ] Spying Mission Type: Action Modifier Requires: Obfuscate [obf] +1 stealth. [OBF] Only usable when a bleed would be successful. The bleed burns no pool; it is unsuccessful. Instead, put this card on the acting vampire. The next time this vampire successfully bleeds the same Methuselah, burn this card for +2 bleed. Looks like it changes the amount of pool removed when it's played and adds 2 to the bleed amount when burning it.