[Question] Ritual of the bitter rose

I've been wondering about this one for quite a while. It is both action modifier and combat cards. And the action modifier part makes enough sense to be quite clear. But the part where you get to use it as a combat card is where it gets a bit strange. When you burn a vampire in combat, it is always empty, since it burned blood to prevent it's destruction. So in that respect, the combat bit would be completely and utterly useless (unless you amaranth with just a few aggro). I'm guessing it is supposed to be the amount of blood it had before the damage was dealt, but I could not find anything current explaining this card. Someone asked before, but this part of the question was left unanswered it seems. So, when you hit a vamp with 2 blood on it for 4 aggravated damage, and play ritual of the biter rose, do your vamps get 2 blood or 0 blood? //Doc. -- "Wees jezelf, er zijn al zoveel anderen" - Loesje begin Your_MS_program_incorrectly_interprets_this_as_an_attachment.txt

> But the part where you get to use it as a combat card is where it gets a > bit strange. When you burn a vampire in combat, it is always empty, > since it burned blood to prevent it's destruction. So in that respect, > the combat bit would be completely and utterly useless (unless you > amaranth with just a few aggro). > > I'm guessing it is supposed to be the amount of blood it had before the > damage was dealt, but I could not find anything current explaining this > card. Someone asked before, but this part of the question was left > unanswered it seems. > > So, when you hit a vamp with 2 blood on it for 4 aggravated damage, and > play ritual of the biter rose, do your vamps get 2 blood or 0 blood? You get none. You can actually burn vampire easy enough in combat with blood on them left. Disarm, Decapitate is one example, 1 aggravated and Amaranth will burn a vampire with blood on it. That new obtenebration card burn a vampire with blood on it etc etc. Note that when diablerizing the vampire eating playing RoTB gets double the blood (once for diablerizing and once for the RotB). Also note they're stackable, so you can play multiple on a single burn (only in combat, since you can't play multiple of the same action modifier).

Izaak wrote: >>But the part where you get to use it as a combat card is where it gets > > a > >>bit strange. When you burn a vampire in combat, it is always empty, >>since it burned blood to prevent it's destruction. So in that respect, >>the combat bit would be completely and utterly useless (unless you >>amaranth with just a few aggro). >> >>I'm guessing it is supposed to be the amount of blood it had before > > the > >>damage was dealt, but I could not find anything current explaining > > this > >>card. Someone asked before, but this part of the question was left >>unanswered it seems. >> >>So, when you hit a vamp with 2 blood on it for 4 aggravated damage, > > and > >>play ritual of the biter rose, do your vamps get 2 blood or 0 blood? > > > You get none. > > You can actually burn vampire easy enough in combat with blood on them > left. Disarm, Decapitate is one example, 1 aggravated and Amaranth will > burn a vampire with blood on it. That new obtenebration card burn a > vampire with blood on it etc etc. Since I only use Jyhad cards I guess I'll have to go with things like Rowan Ring, Amaranth en Ritual for maximum effect :) Or Stake. Or the 1 aggro indeed. Oh well, time to dig out those amaranth then [ quoted text not captured ]

The Doctor wrote: > But the part where you get to use it as a combat card is where it gets a > bit strange. When you burn a vampire in combat, it is always empty, > since it burned blood to prevent it's destruction. Not true. 1 agg + Amaranth handles it easily enough. (From the new Gehenna set, Ahriman's Demesne can also do it.) > So, when you hit a vamp with 2 blood on it for 4 aggravated damage, and > play ritual of the biter rose, do your vamps get 2 blood or 0 blood? 0. --Colin McGuigan

The Doctor wrote: > I'm guessing it is supposed to be the amount of blood it had before the > damage was dealt, but I could not find anything current explaining this > card. Someone asked before, but this part of the question was left > unanswered it seems. Seems more likely that card is meant to do what it says--give you blood left on a vampire you destroy by diablere. In combat, it is somewhat difficult to burn a vampire by diablere when they have blood, but as long as you use agrro and Amaranth (i.e. hit them for 1 agg, and then Amaranth them) or Disarm them then Amaranth them, they are likely going to have blood left. Peter D Bakija pd...@lightlink.com http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6 "Mr. President, ask not what your rest home can do for you. Ask what you can do for your rest home." -Elvis

The Doctor wrote: > Since I only use Jyhad cards I guess I'll have to go with things like > Rowan Ring, Amaranth en Ritual for maximum effect :) > Or Stake. > Or the 1 aggro indeed. > > Oh well, time to dig out those amaranth then Even in the orignal Jyhad set, there are many ways to send folks to torpor in combat when they have lots of blood: -Wolf Claws for 1 damage. Amaranth. -Ivory Bow them for 1 damage. Amaranth. -Rowan Ring them. Amaranth. -Pulled Fangs. Amaranth. -Flame Thrower. Amaranth. So yeah, to use Ritual in combat, you probably need to play Amaranth too. But given that it isn't that hard, it makes Ritual somewhat useful. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Doctor wrote: > > >>Since I only use Jyhad cards I guess I'll have to go with things like >>Rowan Ring, Amaranth en Ritual for maximum effect :) >>Or Stake. >>Or the 1 aggro indeed. >> >>Oh well, time to dig out those amaranth then > > > Even in the orignal Jyhad set, there are many ways to send folks to torpor > in combat when they have lots of blood: > > -Wolf Claws for 1 damage. Amaranth. > -Ivory Bow them for 1 damage. Amaranth. Like I said, 1 aggro... > -Rowan Ring them. Amaranth. I did mention that one already :) > -Pulled Fangs. Amaranth. Pulled fangs is no longer aggro :P > -Flame Thrower. Amaranth. 2 aggro should work just as fine as 1, sure. So let's add Basilia, Walk of Flame, Burst of Sunlight, Dawn Operation, Sengir Dagger, Stake, and just say that there's more ways :) > So yeah, to use Ritual in combat, you probably need to play Amaranth too. > But given that it isn't that hard, it makes Ritual somewhat useful. Hmm well, there's the other disadvantage of course. Amaranth makes it diablerie... Bloodhunts tend to be harsh on your number of vamps. [ quoted text not captured ]

"The Doctor" <D...@freemail.nl> wrote in message news:40EEE21...@freemail.nl... > Peter D Bakija wrote: > 2 aggro should work just as fine as 1, sure. > So let's add Basilia, Walk of Flame, Burst of Sunlight, Dawn Operation, > Sengir Dagger, Stake, and just say that there's more ways :) > like Body of Sun!!! Hawdy har har... Some ways _are_ more practical than others. DaveZ Atom Weaver

> Hmm well, there's the other disadvantage of course. Amaranth makes it > diablerie... Bloodhunts tend to be harsh on your number of vamps. > Burn a 4-cap and gain 12 blood seems like an OK plan to me.

The Doctor wrote: > Pulled fangs is no longer aggro :P So you are using all the new card texts, but only Jyhad cards? Knowing that makes conversation easier. > Hmm well, there's the other disadvantage of course. Amaranth makes it > diablerie... Bloodhunts tend to be harsh on your number of vamps. Well, yeah. But Ritual pretty much works only when you Diablerize someone. Other than Diablere, your best option is burn a vampire with blood on them (to trigger Ritual with a burning) is Disarm/Decapitate. [ quoted text not captured ]

Peter D Bakija <pd...@lightlink.com> wrote in message news:<BD1437BB.18397%pd...@lightlink.com>... > > Seems more likely that card is meant to do what it says--give you blood left > on a vampire you destroy by diablere. In combat, it is somewhat difficult to > burn a vampire by diablere when they have blood, but as long as you use > agrro and Amaranth (i.e. hit them for 1 agg, and then Amaranth them) or > Disarm them then Amaranth them, they are likely going to have blood left. Just to expand a little. the advantage of using RotBR in combat is that they stack. I played this at the last Burton-on-Trent (UK) tournament where unfortunately only 6 players showed. It was untested but swept two games and got boned in th finals because the combat chain (to give it a Cheryholmeism) is too long. Eurobrujah: Decapitate Remix Crypt [12] 4 Menele 3 Constanza Vinti 3 Donal O'Connor 2 Theo Bell Masters [16] 1 The Coven 1 Giant's Blood 6 Blood Doll 4 Dreams of the Sphinx 1 Elder Library 1 The Barrens 2 Fame Minion [74] 8 Immortal Grapple 9 Burning Wrath 9 Decapitate 2 Disarm 4 Govern the Unaligned 6 Deflection 2 Kine Dominance (were total rubbish) 8 Flash (ah-ahhh) 5 Sideslip 8 Second Tradition: Domain 8 Ritual of the Bitter Rose 3 Eye of Hazimel 4 Bums Rush ....and how often do I play combat decks. It was amazing fun though. In round 1 my vampires gained 12 (2rituals x 3blood x 2vampires) pool at one point, round 2 they gained 32 (2x8x2). Which seems wholely reasonable to me. MattGreen

Peter D Bakija wrote: > The Doctor wrote: > > >>Pulled fangs is no longer aggro :P > > > So you are using all the new card texts, but only Jyhad cards? Knowing that > makes conversation easier. Almost all anyway, we've made 3 exceptions so far (wake: DNR end of action, 5th tradition: no limit on blood and fame: unique but as cardtext) So I guess the answer in regards to the context of this dscussion might as well be 'yes'. > Well, yeah. But Ritual pretty much works only when you Diablerize someone. > Other than Diablere, your best option is burn a vampire with blood on them > (to trigger Ritual with a burning) is Disarm/Decapitate. Not in my Jyhad cards of course :) Guess I won't remove that justicar from my deck, and add some amaranth. Hmm wondering: if you use rowan ring or stake, and you amaranth, do you get to take it back immediately? I'd say yes since in diablerie you get all the equipment. [ quoted text not captured ]

mgreen02 wrote: > In round 1 my vampires gained 12 (2rituals x 3blood x 2vampires) pool > at one point, round 2 they gained 32 (2x8x2). Which seems wholely > reasonable to me. Blood, you mean. And 32 probably does not fit anyway, so why bother to stack 2 except to cycle? It's good to fill up your vamps of course, but it's your blood dolls that do the real useful stuff :) [ quoted text not captured ]

The Doctor wrote: > Hmm wondering: if you use rowan ring or stake, and you amaranth, do you > get to take it back immediately? I'd say yes since in diablerie you get > all the equipment. Correct. -- LSJ (vte...@white-wolf.com) V:TES Net.Rep for White Wolf, Inc. Links to V:TES news, rules, cards, utilities, and tournament calendar: http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/