Deck Build Lecture during the EC 2011?

During the upcoming European VtES Championship 2011 in Warsaw, there's the possibility that the Swedish national coordinator, Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark, will give a lecture about Swedish (and maybe more) deck building. But since the schedule during the EC from Friday to Sunday is so tight, the organizers need to know if someone is interested in such a lecture on Thursday (and when). So if you plan attending the EC this year, please vote on this poll!

Sometime in the afternoon, I guess.

I can't imagine what this would cover. Would it have hand-outs? PowerPoints? Would it cover existing theories? www.thelasombra.com/deck-building-theories.htm Would it cover something completely new?

OK, here's what I expect from such a lecture. A/ It's given by some of the best players around, so I do expect high level discussions. Not that I don't want Blood Doll vs Vessel stuff, but rather a generic description of what they think the proprtions of a deck should be (how much defense? how much offense? number of non-cyclable action modifiers, ...) B/ Description of the tests validating a deck. How much, how often, which opponents, .. C/ Something about the Girls. The Swedes "invented" it, at least were the best with it last year in Paris. The different versions (bleed, vote, combat), pros and cons of each, .. D/ Metagame analysis - what to expect at EC / post EC E/ How to oust Erik.

Something like this? or more like this? or this?

Pascal nailed it for! Thank you! Points A through C is what I have in mind. Points D and E might be discussed slightly. I'll try to keep it interesting and high level discussion (since this will take place at the EC some of the best of the best will attend). If there's possbile to have a power point presentation at the venue I'll proably go ahead and use that. And also, I think it is good have a ongoing debate/discussion concerning deck dulding/playing. This should (in my opinion) take place at the different gatherings. I hope this clarifies abit. Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark

Ok. If you do come up with anything to take away from the discussion, like a PowerPoint or essay, I'd be happy to host it. www.thelasombra.com/deck-building-theories.htm

Ofcourse! If anyone is willing to film it, it could go on to youtube. Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark

You should probably do a bit on R&D. Quirky design and unexpected submetas don't appear unless you're willing to "not play to win" at times. In this context i refer to "play to win" as in maximising your chances in the metagame, not the tournament rule. To quote David Sirlin: "Playing to win and playing to learn are often at odds. If you play the game at hand to maximize you chances of winning, then you won’t take the unnecessary risks of trying out new tactics, counters, moves, patterns, or whatever. Playing it straight is the best way to win the game at hand, but at the cost of valuable information about the game that you may need later, and valuable practice to expand your narrow repertoire of moves or tactics." Read some of his "play to win" articles at www.sirlin.net/articles/ Heavy experimentation in VTES is at odds with polishing new ideas, it's a problem I've experienced alot in Stockholm in particular. Ivan - Maybe this?

The "good deck vs. creating new deck dilema" is one of the thing I'll talk about! Isak Esbjörnsson Bjärmark

> Pascal wrote: > ...snip A-D... > E/ How to oust Erik. > Shouldn't that be point A, damnit? Baron of Frankfurt

> Forhead wrote: > The "good deck vs. creating new deck dilema" is one of the thing I'll talk about! > I've been thinking alot about the "good deck vs. creating new deck dilemma" lately. Extremes that change how the table should be played to win it has been something I've been experimenting with lately, the problem lies in keeping it secret long enough while at the same time being able to tune it into somthing tournament worthy. Creating a new deck often makes for a whole new meta and sets a whole new rule for that particular table. A few examples would be the "Burning Anus" deck or the "Mindrape Abactor" deck, two concepts that take an idea to the extreme and kind of change the meta on how that particular table should be approached. Once the deck's "one trick pony" has been exposed your playstyle accomodates and you can easily beat it with the top tourney decks, but creating a new sub-meta can win games almost by it's own since you can't expect it. Applying this to the EC where several meta-games meet up is interesting, since it needs to be something extremely unexpected or strong to stand up to such a big pool of archetypes. Ivan - Maybe this?

Just echoing the sentiment that I hope it goes on Youtube or is at least transcribed.

> Forhead wrote: > Ofcourse! If anyone is willing to film it, it could go on to youtube. > Filming would indeed be great! I've been think about visiting the city during Thursday and others might want to do the same so placing the lecture in the middle of day would be a big no-no. Evening would certainly be better suited for this! I've recently been ponering about taping next year's finals at Ropecon and/or Finnish NC. Heck, why not at the EC this year? And in post production it certainly would be awesome to add spirited commentary and banter to it aking to poker tournaments! ("... Jari, Erik certainly seems to be going in for the kill. But since he's fresh out of bounce, can Hugh top deck that needed 3rd intercept?" "Indeed Jarkko, or one of the two Archon Investigations we've seen him use in preliminary rounds?...") > Pascal wrote: > C/ Something about the Girls. The Swedes "invented" it, at least were the best with it last year in Paris. > All the glory to Erik & co for honing the archetype to even greater perfection, but wasn't Girls archetype winvented by Teemu Sainomaa from Finland and saw international used by him at Praha/Prague EC in 2008? He got to the finals on Saturday IIRC (or was it Friday?) -check TWDA for "Girls will find your blind spot" for earlier use in Finland. True, some 200+ years ago we were part of Sweden but I don't think that will count Teemu as a Swede... Same as the people in the colonies on the other side of Atlantic, are not Brits anymore Finnish Politics!

Filming of both the deck building lecture (should it go ahead as I hope it does) and the Final tables would be greatly appreciated. The footage of the 2009 EC Finals was invaluable and very enjoyable. If not on youtube please at least release as a torrent for easy sharing. Aaron Archbishop Adelaide

I can reveal that one of the extras of EC will be the dvd-documentary. It will be filmed by Mr. Daniel Halat. We're planning some sort of 3-days documentary with some interviews, gaming...etc etc We have more suprises but I cannot tell anything because not everything is confirmed yet. Regards Szewski

> Lönkka wrote: > > > Pascal wrote: > > C/ Something about the Girls. The Swedes "invented" it, at least were the best with it last year in Paris. > > > All the glory to Erik & co for honing the archetype to even greater perfection, but wasn't Girls archetype winvented by Teemu Sainomaa from Finland and saw international used by him at Praha/Prague EC in 2008? He got to the finals on Saturday IIRC (or was it Friday?) -check TWDA for "Girls will find your blind spot" for earlier use in Finland. > > True, some 200+ years ago we were part of Sweden but I don't think that will count Teemu as a Swede... Same as the people in the colonies on the other side of Atlantic, are not Brits anymore > All my sincere apologies to the Finns

Szewski, great news! > Pascal wrote: > All my sincere apologies to the Finns > Sacre bleu! For the last time you have insulted the honor of my country and my countryman! During EC on Friday it'll be rapiers at sunrise. Let's add: & no harm done so no-one actually thinks for a second that I'm serious... Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > Szewski, great news! > > > Pascal wrote: > > All my sincere apologies to the Finns > > > Sacre bleu! > For the last time you have insulted the honor of my country and my countryman! > During EC on Friday it'll be rapiers at sunrise. > Petri is actually taking fencing classes. Add that to the famous Finish Politics... Can we start some side action? I got two Enkil Cogs for the Finns to win. Who wants in? Sorry, Floppy...

> Brum wrote: > Petri is actually taking fencing classes. > Yeah, he's been training for like 10 years in the Helsinki's School of European Swordsmanship where they teach historical fencing styles. He's also training with other pointy things. The laid off hippie dude is just a front - he's infact a scary ass ninja! (I'm actually willing to bet that his "accident" this summer was in fact no accident at all, but instead some sort of weird firewalking/-imbuing rite for gentlemen assassins...) Finnish Politics!