Card idea: Timefalls

Name: Timefalls Cardtype: Action / Reaction / Combat Discipline: Thaumaturgy / Temporis [tha] [COMBAT] Press. [tem] [REACTION] Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 actions have been taken during this minion phase. Minions can't take actions this turn. [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master card that can be put into play from your hand. Pay cost as normal. Allows players to control the time of the game itself At superior, introduces a new way to play master cards that are put into play (can't think of any abuse right now). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I don't like it. I think the is too powerful, far too much defense for a single card to give. And I don't think there should be any way to play a master card as a minion card, either thematically or for game balance reasons. The first way I can think of to abuse it is to Villein a vampire that's been Mind Raped, I'm sure I can think of others if I give it more than a few seconds thought.

inferior temporis is WAAAY to strong. A Trujah that used summon history to fetch ankara can easily make 4 actions per turn with free freak drives. With sup. version, he can play ashur tablets, and keep table frozen nearly entire game. It's like una again, only MORE boring (if that is even possible)

> Pendargon wrote: > inferior temporis is WAAAY to strong. A Trujah that used summon history to fetch ankara can easily make 4 actions per turn with free freak drives. > ??? Read the card again. It's a reaction. It affects the current turn. > Mael wrote: > I don't like it. > I think the is too powerful, far too much defense for a single card to give. > It only works against a deck with more than 4 minions, or someone abusing some untap. I'm not sure it's that frequent. > Mael wrote: > And I don't think there should be any way to play a master card as a minion card, either thematically or for game balance reasons. > The first way I can think of to abuse it is to Villein a vampire that's been Mind Raped, I'm sure I can think of others if I give it more than a few seconds thought. > What about changing it to master: location only? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > It only works against a deck with more than 4 minions, or someone abusing some untap. I'm not sure it's that frequent. > Maybe it's a meta thing. I'd say probably 50% of other players' decks around here frequently try to do more actions a turn than that, closer to 75% of my own decks. And when you say "abusing", I think you mean simply "using". > > What about changing it to master: location only? > That would certainly limit it's capacity for abuse.

> Mael wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > It only works against a deck with more than 4 minions, or someone abusing some untap. I'm not sure it's that frequent. > > > Maybe it's a meta thing. I'd say probably 50% of other players' decks around here frequently try to do more actions a turn than that, closer to 75% of my own decks. And when you say "abusing", I think you mean simply "using". > Could you explain why you find it gives " far too much defense for a single card ". I mean, if your predator has already taken 4 actions, but need more to do you something, it's likely a swarm deck or an Una deck. Anyway, stopping him one turn doesn't seem abusive. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

The superior effect also needs the 'requirements must be fulfilled' text, otherwise its way too strong. Also the basic should have 'this minion burns 2 blood to' put to the start, its ridiculous as free reaction.

Oh, i am stupid. I could have sworn it is action modifier... B) Nothing to see here, move along...

> Klaital wrote: > its ridiculous as free reaction. > Please detail. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > Klaital wrote: > > its ridiculous as free reaction. > > > Please detail. > A free reaction that completely shuts down all decks not focused on non-multiacting fatties, and which also has very good other effect to use it if there are only non-multiacting fatty decks around.

> Ankha wrote: > Could you explain why you find it gives " far too much defense for a single card ". > > I mean, if your predator has already taken 4 actions, but need more to do you something, it's likely a swarm deck or an Una deck. Anyway, stopping him one turn doesn't seem abusive. > Well, not all of a players actions are going to be against the same target. For example, a lot of decks with light multi-acting will want to bloat or go backwards for part of their turn before taking action forwards. Some decks will want to take tool-up actions before going forwards (especially imbued). Some will have a mandatory hunt taking up 1 of their 4 actions for this turn. A lot of cards include untapping the vampire as part of the effect of the card. This card doesn't care if the actions are successful, so as part of a wall strategy you can easily limit what other defense you need. You can also use it crosstable to deny your prey his oust turn in a much easier way than Eagle's Sight can do. And as well as all that, as you say, it completely stops swarm decks for a turn. For a single free card that is already too powerful a result even if it didn't significantly affect other decks. And when we say "for a turn", in terms of a real game, that's likely to be most turns, because if you are playing this card there's no reason to limit yourself to not playing 6 or more copies. You would very rarely have any difficulty cycling excess copies of it.

> Klaital wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > Klaital wrote: > > > its ridiculous as free reaction. > > > > > Please detail. > > > A free reaction that completely shuts down all decks not focused on non-multiacting fatties, and which also has very good other effect to use it if there are only non-multiacting fatty decks around. > Very few decks are completely or slightly shut down because they only get 4 actions per turn.

I would start by adding "not useable if you played Timefalls last turn". Overkill is highly underrated. You know, like in computor games and such.

> Suoli wrote: > > > Klaital wrote: > > > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Klaital wrote: > > > > its ridiculous as free reaction. > > > > > > > Please detail. > > > > > > > > A free reaction that completely shuts down all decks not focused on non-multiacting fatties, and which also has very good other effect to use it if there are only non-multiacting fatty decks around. > > > Very few decks are completely or slightly shut down because they only get 4 actions per turn. > Agreed. I also don't think that you could so easily cycle multiple copies of this card, especially if the TEM part was restricted to locations (which is a sensible restriction thematically: the vampire goes and acquires the location herself). As has been said, for any deck that takes four or fewer actions per turn (maybe most decks?), you won't be able to play it. And even if you can play it, you'll probably be shutting your opponent down at the end of her string of actions. Plus it foils Mono-Una decks, which is maybe nice. I like the card.

no card in the game is 3 different types. is too strong compared to other thaumatugy press cards is a silver bullet that adds nothing interesting to the game. HAH YOU CAN'T TAKE YOUR TURN! gives more master phase actions to a clan that is able to untap constantly

> Haze wrote: > no card in the game is 3 different types. > I can't see what's the problem with this. Before anarch, no cards were three-ways. Before wash, no oot were trifle. Etc. > Haze wrote: > is too strong compared to other thaumatugy press cards > Maybe. Maybe not. The thing is that there's no superior effect at tha, so if you're planning to play tha, an Apportation may be better. > Haze wrote: > is a silver bullet that adds nothing interesting to the game. HAH YOU CAN'T TAKE YOUR TURN! > It add defense to a clan that has very little. It speeds up the game. > Haze wrote: > gives more master phase actions to a clan that is able to untap constantly > Kind of, but only for locations. Rewind Time also does this as it allows you to Sudden (which is stronger than playing a master location) without losing your MPA. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

I agree with the view that should be a press, only usable to either end, or continue combat. One should take care to make outferiors superior to existing cards' inferior abilities. (Wait... what? ) No, but seriously, a free press either way is a bit too much for thaumaturgy, which doesn't have unrestricted presses even on . Either make the minion burn a blood, or restrict the effect. I, for one, can't see the problem in the version. It honestly doesn't seem that over powered. Four actions is bleedin' plenty already. I can't see many decks being hosed by a couple of turns with "only" four actions. To be honest, I can't see many decks even attempting more than four on a regular basis. On top of that you'll need to be untapped to use the card, and so on. I think it's fairly balanced! To be sure, it MIGHT cost a blood to use - the whole card, that is. I just can't think why that would be warranted. Especially if effect only works for locations. I agree that unrestricted un-suddenable masters during your minion phase might be a bit over the top. Villeins on stolen vampires, pentexes, giant's bloods - you get the idea... The idea's fine, though, and I would be happy to see it either affecting only locations or non-trifle masters. Or only trifles?! Then again, the most effective masters are already trifles to begin with. It's an interesting, and thematically fun card, which is by no means over powered in my opinion. Just be careful with the outferiors. I think Flames of Netherworld was glancing the edge already. I'd love to playtest this one too. Are there .pdf print files already? "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

That would give: Name: Timefalls Cardtype: Action / Reaction / Combat Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Thaumaturgy / Temporis [tha] [COMBAT] Press. You can play only 1 Timefalls each combat. [tem] [REACTION] Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 actions have been taken during this minion phase. Minions can't take actions this turn. [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master: location card from your hand. Requirement and cost apply as normal. www.veknfrance.com/site/IMG/pdf/timefalls.pdf Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Cheers. Awesome art found, by the way. Should the text be clearer? Either "At least 4 actions have been attempted this turn." or "At least 4 actions have been successful?" It's not exactly clear without a check from the rulebook if the actions have to be successful or not for Timefalls to work. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Kraus wrote: > Cheers. Awesome art found, by the way. > > Should the text be clearer? Either "At least 4 actions have been attempted this turn." or "At least 4 actions have been successful?" It's not exactly clear without a check from the rulebook if the actions have to be successful or not for Timefalls to work. > See Torpid Blood or Neighborhood Watch Commander (Hunter). An action taken is an action that has not been cancelled and that is either successfull or unsuccessfull. groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/da88107678e474e4 Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > That would give: > > Name: Timefalls > Cardtype: Action / Reaction / Combat > Cost: 1 blood > Discipline: Thaumaturgy / Temporis > [tha] [COMBAT] Press. You can play only 1 Timefalls each combat. > [tem] [REACTION] Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 actions have been taken during this minion phase. Minions can't take actions this turn. > [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master: location card from your hand. Requirement and cost apply as normal. > > www.veknfrance.com/site/IMG/pdf/timefalls.pdf > To balance I think in something like that: [tem] [REACTION] Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 SUCESSFULL actions have been taken during this minion phase. Minions can't take actions unless hunt (if needed) this turn. [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master from your hand as a master out-of-turn (can't play master or gain trifle bennefict next turn). Requirement and cost apply as normal. Fernando Cesar - Sydnelson LackeyCCG and OCTGN VtES Mantainer Prince of Rio de Janeiro Powerbase Rio de Janeiro

> Sydnelson wrote: > That would give: > > To balance I think in something like that: > > [tem] [REACTION] Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 SUCESSFULL actions have been taken during this minion phase. Minions can't take actions unless hunt (if needed) this turn. > > [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master from your hand as a master out-of-turn (can't play master or gain trifle bennefict next turn). Requirement and cost apply as normal. > I'd edit it one step further. (Assuming that it was ever going to see play, since I think it's a fairly overpowered card even for Temporis) Only usable at the end of an action, if at least 4 successful non-mandatory actions have been taken during this turn. Minions may not attempt non-mandatory actions for the remainder of the minion phase. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

> Sydnelson wrote: > To balance I think in something like that: > > [TEM] [ACTION] +1 stealth action. Play a master from your hand as a master out-of-turn (can't play master or gain trifle bennefict next turn). Requirement and cost apply as normal. > I'm not sure it's balancing anything, it's much more powerful than limiting the master to master:location (due to the Villein or Golonda possible abuse after a temptation or mind rape) Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director