My acting Trujah gets blocked by an Tzimisce, I play Domain of Evernight. Combat starts, I play Outside the Hourglass, the blocking player plays Carrion Crows, does my 2 aggravated damage occur before he has the opprtunity to play Rotschreck?
Domain of Evernight
[obf] +1 stealth.
[tem] If this action is blocked, all damage done to vampires in the resulting combat is aggravated.
[TEM] Only usable when an action is successful. Untap this acting vampire. A vampire can play only one Domain of Evernight at superior each turn.
Outside the Hourglass
[obf] Strike: dodge.
[tem] Maneuver, or strike: dodge, with an optional maneuver.
[TEM] Only usable before range is determined. Inflict 2 damage on the opposing minion. A vampire can play only one Outside the Hourglass at superior each round.
Carrion Crows
Only usable before range is chosen.
[ani] Opposing minion takes 1R damage each round of combat during strike resolution. A vampire can only play 1 Carrion Crows each combat.
[ANI] As above, but with 2R damage.
Rotschreck
Master: out-of-turn. <Frenzy. > Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.
- Prince of Karlsruhe, Germany
IANPB, but Yes.
Read the Carrion crows text.
Carrion crows deal damage DURING strike resolution. As you inflict 2 aggravated damage BEFORE range is determined, he needs to prevent them, or go to torpor immediately, before even choose strikes phase is reached.
First, the opposing minion can't play Rötschreck if the only damage dealt are those of the Carrion because they're environmental, thus not dealt by the minion (see Rötschreck card text).
Secondly, damage from the Carrion Crows are applied during the normal strike resolution, that is after the damage from OtH are applied and dealt with.
Now, if the opposing minion plays OtH too, he can play Rötschreck and send your acting True Brujah to torpor.
This has been reverted: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79432-rotschreck-and-non-strike-agravated-damage?start=18#104475
Name: Rötschreck
[Jyhad:U, CE:U, Anarchs:PG, BH:PTr2, KMW:PB, LoB:PA, Third:PTz]
Cardtype: Master
Master: out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her, whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not. Combat ends. This vampire is tapped and sent to torpor. This vampire does not untap as normal. During this vampire's next untap phase, burn this card.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
For completeness, I'm going to point out that he could however play Rötschreck on his own vampire if he feels he would prefer this than being hit with two agg damage (for example if he was on zero blood, or if he had a Telepathic Tracking in his hand to avoid going to torpor from Rötschreck).
No, he could not play rothschreck in any case on either vampire since the damage from OtHG is environmental damage, not strike damage, and rotchreck is only playable when someone attempts to -strike- for aggravated.
> Klaital wrote:
> No, he could not play rothschreck in any case on either vampire since the damage from OtHG is environmental damage, not strike damage, and rotchreck is only playable when someone attempts to -strike- for aggravated.
>
See the post from LSJ here
>
> What you mean is "OtH is considered damage 'from the minion' rather
> than environmental damage."
>
> And that is correct.
>
Rotshreck does not require damage to be from a strike, only for it to be inflicted by "an opposing minion".
> Erol wrote:
> My acting Trujah gets blocked by an Tzimisce, I play Domain of Evernight. Combat starts, I play Outside the Hourglass, the blocking player plays Carrion Crows, does my 2 aggravated damage occur before he has the opprtunity to play Rotschreck?
>
Erol: (some Trujah action), "Blocks?"
Kevin: "TzimisceX attempts to block"
Erol: "I play Domain of Evernight...ok, I'm blocked"
"Pre-range, I play Outside the Hourglass."
"No more pre."
Kevin: "I play Carrion Crows."
"No more pre."
Erol: "You must take 2 agg before the pre-range phase ends."
Kevin: "Shit."
TzimisceX takes 2 agg, likely goes to torpor, combat ends...
Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas
"Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles
you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War*
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Actually I don't think you would even have chance to play the carrion crows if you go to torpor from the OtHG since acting minion has priority to play stuff first.
> Klaital wrote:
> Actually I don't think you would even have chance to play the carrion crows if you go to torpor from the OtHG since acting minion has priority to play stuff first.
>
This other link from LSJ should answer all your Outside the Hourglass questions.
He confirms
>
> > - You can play horrid form (and similar cards) before preventing/
> > healing damage from an OtH already played
>
> > - You can play any (number) "only useable before range is determined"
> > cards before preventing/healing damage from an OtH already played.
>
> > - You can play Skin of Night at inferior to change the nature of the
> > damage from an OtH already played if that damage is aggravated before
> > preventing/healing that damage.
>
So you can quite happily cycle your Carrion Crows, Terror Frenzy and Drawing out the Beast in the hope of getting to the Horrid Forms you need to prevent the damage.
I had thought differently as well, but that's the official ruling.
Correct answers from Mael.
Even though the opponent has played Outside the Hourglass, you can play "before range" cards (Carrion Crows, Flesh of Marble, ...).
Rötschreck can be played on the minion taking damage from OtH.
Once Rötschreck is played, in the "before range" step, combat ends, and we don't consider damage that would have been inflicted later (Carrion Crows, Drawing out the Beast)...
This has been reverted: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79432-rotschreck-and-non-strike-agravated-damage?start=18#104475
> Klaital wrote:
> rotchreck is only playable when someone attempts to -strike- for aggravated.
>
Correct. See www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79432-rotschreck-and-non-strike-agravated-damage?start=18#104475
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director