Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Ally
Cost: 2 pool
Unique ally with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed.
When Robert Gantz enters play, or by discarding a copy of Robert Gantz as a master phase action, you may search your library for a trophy card and put it on him. He may search your library or ash heap for a trophy card to put on him as a +1 stealth action. If that action is blocked, he may burn a trophy on him to cancel combat. You may award trophy cards on him when a Red List minion is burned as if they were in play.
A useful addition to trophy decks. It makes the setup easier for them, saving some master phase actions and allowing to fetch the desired trophies early.
Robert can be included in multiple copies and can be used as "proxies" for trophies.
The name is absolutely non-canonical, I just made it like that. If someone has a better canonical idea, I can change his name.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
It should probably include the text that he does not get the benefit of trophies on him, or that they are out of play or something. I think at the moment all trophies specify 'vampire' on them, but it's no harm to explicitly state it.
Apart from that, it seems to be on the weak side of balanced. I don't think I'd include it in a trophy deck. (Reason for that is that around here it would almost certainly die before I could get anything off it, that's possibly just the local meta though).
> Mael wrote:
> It should probably include the text that he does not get the benefit of trophies on him, or that they are out of play or something. I think at the moment all trophies specify 'vampire' on them, but it's no harm to explicitly state it.
>
It takes place. As you stated, 1/ all trophies affect only vampires 2/ it's intuitive they do not benefit Robert since they can be "awarded" later.
> Mael wrote:
> Apart from that, it seems to be on the weak side of balanced. I don't think I'd include it in a trophy deck. (Reason for that is that around here it would almost certainly die before I could get anything off it, that's possibly just the local meta though).
>
Because he would be rushed? If this is the case, what about:
1/ making him untargetable by non-Red List minions?
2/ OR a blood hunt is called on whoever vampire rushes him (after combat)?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
He should be mortal or ghoul instead of just 'ally'. Also I think he is too expensive for an unique ally who doesn't have any bleed. Would probably make him free or at most cost 1 pool, and maybe make him require a titled vampire to recruit.
I like the titled requirement.
What about:
Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Ally
Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a ready titled vampire.
When Robert Gantz enters play, or by discarding a copy of Robert Gantz as a master phase action, or as a +1 stealth action, he may search your library or ash heap for a trophy card to put on him. If that action is blocked, he may burn a trophy on him to cancel combat. You may award trophy cards on him when a Red List minion is burned as if they were in play. If he's burned during an action he didn't attempt to block, a Blood Hunt is called on the acting vampire.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> Because he would be rushed? If this is the case, what about:
> 1/ making him untargetable by non-Red List minions?
> 2/ OR a blood hunt is called on whoever vampire rushes him (after combat)?
>
Rushed or Shattering Cresendoed.
I like the blood hunt option, it means people can still attack him if they think it's worth the cost. Untargetableness is something I think should be very rare in the game.
Regarding your updated version:
I would probably have kept a 1 pool cost, other changes seem good.
Is it wrong that my first thought on reading it was "how can I make him burn during a combat he's not involved in, or get him into a combat somehow"?
> Mael wrote:
> Is it wrong that my first thought on reading it was "how can I make him burn during a combat he's not involved in, or get him into a combat somehow"?
>
Not combat, action.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > Mael wrote:
> > Is it wrong that my first thought on reading it was "how can I make him burn during a combat he's not involved in, or get him into a combat somehow"?
> >
> Not combat, action.
>
True, so if he had a pool cost you could call a blood hunt on anyone who called Kindred Segregation successfully (by not paying the pool to keep him). This is an argument for ignoring my previous point about him having a pool cost
> Mael wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> >
> > > Mael wrote:
> > > Is it wrong that my first thought on reading it was "how can I make him burn during a combat he's not involved in, or get him into a combat somehow"?
> > >
> > Not combat, action.
> >
> True, so if he had a pool cost you could call a blood hunt on anyone who called Kindred Segregation successfully (by not paying the pool to keep him). This is an argument for ignoring my previous point about him having a pool cost
>
Having a pool cost of 0 or 1 doesn't change anything. You may choose not to repay his pool cost (0) and have it burn.
This, it should read "If he's burned during a action he didn't attempt to block..."
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I would personally just drop that whole if he is burned call blood hunt blah blah stuff. It just makes no sense that burning a mortal would get a blood hunt called. At most it should make the acting vampire red list, which would kind of fit in with the whole trophy theme of this ally anyway.
New version:
Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Ally
Unique mortal with 2 life. 1 strength, 0 bleed. Requires a ready titled vampire.
You may award trophy cards from your ash heap as if they were in play. Any minion burning Robert Ganz in combat or during a action becomes Red List.
It's must more simple and in a way it fits the role of accelerating trophies by converting discards in MPA for trophies.
Thoughts?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
So Infernal Pursuit to discard trophies during combat, the Summoning to go fish for the collector and Caiaphas Smith/Informant, and you're ready to go? That would work with plenty of clans but it feels more like a stupid turbo deck than what a trophy deck should be. Maybe have that special on an Equipment instead of an Ally to break the Collector/Caiaphas/Summoning mechanic?
> Non-existant user wrote:
> So Infernal Pursuit to discard trophies during combat, the Summoning to go fish for the collector and Caiaphas Smith/Informant, and you're ready to go? That would work with plenty of clans but it feels more like a stupid turbo deck than what a trophy deck should be. Maybe have that special on an Equipment instead of an Ally to break the Collector/Caiaphas/Summoning mechanic?
>
Currently, it is already possible to use Caiaphas and Informant as red list victims. So, basically you're saying that anything that will improve trophies will improve that combo anyway and that therefore, the trophy mecanics should be left as is (= weak).
Did I miss a point?
And why an equipment would be more balanced than an ally?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> And why an equipment would be more balanced than an ally?
>
It is already written above: if the combo is based on 2 allies, then you can greatly impprove the card flow with the Summoning: it helps you draw all the different pieces early instead of several of the same and it trims your deck of the superfluous copies. Any improvement to trophies is likely to improve the Caiaphas trick as well, but if that improvement is another ally then you improve the Caiaphas trick more than other trophy decks.
Well, this can be achieved anyway with Summon History.
What about:
Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Retainer
Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
While Robert's employer is ready, you may award trophy cards from your ash heap as if they were in play.
Or (less powerful):
Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Retainer
Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
If Robert's employer is ready during your untap phase, you may put a trophy card from your ash heap into play.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
I prefer the second version, mainly because I am sure it won't degenerate with a liquidation / anthelios / dream / barren setup.
In both case, I must admit that it is a partial effort. Something is needed for trophy to be easier to play (except maybe progeny, but it can't be used several time since the card stay in play), and something is needed to make someone redlist reliably and without costing too much.
Edit : in fact, maybe the seconde version could be added to a card that do something alway useful.
> Ankha wrote:
> Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
> Cardtype: Retainer
> Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
> If Robert's employer is ready during your untap phase, you may put a trophy card from your ash heap into play.
>
I like this version, but would add "If Robert's employer is ready and not Red List..."
Given that the text is quite brief, I might also add an emphatic "(unawarded)" or "(not on a minion)" or "(available to be awarded)" or something.
Hm, I have a final idea because I don't like much recursivity.
Name: Robert Gantz, Collector
Cardtype: Retainer
Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
If Robert's employer is ready, you may spend a discard phase action to put a trophy card from your hand into play.
It values a little DPA, speeds up trophy decks (instead of ending the turn with a trophy that jams the end until the next master phase) and is not recursive.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> HName: Robert Gantz, Collector
> Cardtype: Retainer
> Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
> If Robert's employer is ready, you may spend a discard phase action to put a trophy card from your hand into play.
>
Not that I think there's anything significantly wrong with this version (though personally I don't really like 'giving up' a discard phase action much), I wondered if there might be any mileage in something like:
If Robert's employer is ready and another Methuselah's minion becomes Red List during your turn, you may search your hand or library for a trophy card and put it into play. (Shuffle library afterwards, if it is searched.)
Could potentially speed things up a fair bit if you do a bit of red listing early on.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > HName: Robert Gantz, Collector
> > Cardtype: Retainer
> > Unique mortal with 2 life. Requires a ready titled vampire.
> > If Robert's employer is ready, you may spend a discard phase action to put a trophy card from your hand into play.
> >
> Not that I think there's anything significantly wrong with this version (though personally I don't really like 'giving up' a discard phase action much), I wondered if there might be any mileage in something like:
>
> If Robert's employer is ready and another Methuselah's minion becomes Red List during your turn, you may search your hand or library for a trophy card and put it into play. (Shuffle library afterwards, if it is searched.)
>
> Could potentially speed things up a fair bit if you do a bit of red listing early on.
>
Both are fine.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director