Q: Supposing that Karl Schrekt has changed sect (for instance, he is now Anarch), can he play Camarilla's Iron Fist as justicar?
Name: Karl Schrekt
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Tremere
Group: 6
Capacity: 10
Discipline: AUS DOM FOR PRE THA
Camarilla. 2 votes (titled): Karl can play cards requiring a justicar as if he were a justicar. +1 intercept.
Name: Camarilla's Iron Fist
[30th:5, V5:PL2]
Cardtype: Political Action
Cost: 1 blood
Requires a titled Camarilla vampire.
Choose a Methuselah and allocate 5 points among two or more other Methuselahs. Successful referendum means {each Methuselah burns 1 pool for each point allocated and the chosen Methuselah gains 1 pool.}
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
A: No, because Camarilla's Iron Fist doesn't explictly require a Justicar.
> Ankha wrote:
> The idea driving these rulings is the principle of least astonishment.
>
> Mathematically, a card that "requires A" can meet the criteria "requires B" if and only if B is a superset of A (this means that all "A"s are in the set of "B"s).
> Therefore, a card that "requires a prince or justicar" shouldn't qualify for an effect that works for cards that "requires a justicar", as "requires a justicar" is a subset, not a superset, of "requires a prince or justicar".
>
> For instance, Karl shouldn't be able to play Parity Shift since it requires "a prince or justicar", and he can only spoof cards that require "a justicar".
>
> Of course, this would be counter-intuitive to most players, violating the principle of least astonishment.
> That's why, as an exception (by ruling), a card that "requires A or B" can meet the criteria "requires A".
>
> This exception is only valid (by ruling) with "closed lists" (where the criteria is explicitly mentioned, such as "Requires a Prince or Justicar or Inner Circle") and not "open lists" (where the criteria is implicit, such as "Requires a titled Camarilla vampire").
>
> For the rest, logic applies normally. For instance, a card that "requires a Baron" can meet the criteria "requires an Anarch" because all barons are Anarchs. (Anarchs is a superset of barons.)
>
In this case, the requirement for Camarilla's Iron Fist is an open list, so it doesn't work.
See also www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/82172-garibaldi-and-jericho-founding
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
This changes nothing about Vidal Jarbeaux for instance
"Vidal can meet the clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait (e.g., {Black Hand}) requirement to play any card. He can meet a given requirement only once each game."
1/ the card can have ANY clan, sect, or non-infernal vampire trait requirement. So cards with an open list requirement (such as "requires a titled vampire") can be chosen
2/ he can spoof any matching requirement (for instance, he can play it as a "prince of <pick a city>", which matches "requires a titled vampire"), as long as he hasn't already used it.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director