Kilrauko#
1) As the wording in upcoming The Gate of Acheron is different and without X format of Constant revolution, does the card follow "all are discarded at once" ruling?
2) Or is the randomization determined per counter basis following the Smiling Jack procedure and ruling?
3) Is the wording intended to follow Smiling Jack?
Laying out the concern here: Acheron has 5 counters can the prey choose to discard 1R (shuffle graveyard, discard 1 at random pull), pay 1 pool, shuffle graveyard that was turned face up again to discard 1R, pay 1 pool, shuffle....Now think over 3 turns at first 3, 5 and 8 counters. Is it design intent to have 8 times the random pull from graveyard at the end with all the time it takes to sufficiently randomize (and the can of worms that opens) with ability to change between each pull as different cards are removed. As pointed out in the discord thread, this is relevant with all ash heap interaction and thus cannot be outright ruled to be 5.3. Slow Play yet it *will* take longer to handle compared to Constant Revolution which is one physical manipulation of the ash heap.
Below are the relevant tidbits and links, I'll type the upcoming card via edit once I get some morning tea in me.
Name: The Gate of Acheron Cardtype: Action Clan: Hecata +1 stealth action. Unique. Put this card in play with 1 counter. During your unlock phase, add 1 counter to this card. During your prey's unlock phase, for each counter on this card, they burn 1 pool or remove a library card at random in their ash heap from the game. Hecata you control with capacity 4 or more can add 1 counter to this card as a +1 stealth action. Vampires can burn this card as a (D) action. Artist: Francisco Tébar
Name: Constant Revolution [TR:R, V5A:PG2, V5C:PTz1] Cardtype: Action +1 stealth action. Requires an Anarch. Unique. Put this card in play with 1 counter. During your unlock phase, add 1 counter to this card. During each other Methuselah's unlock phase, that Methuselah burns X pool and/or cards at random from their hand, where X is the number of counters on this card. Vampires can burn this card as a (D) action that costs 1 pool. Artist: Brian LeBlanc
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/jxTaf6lnYb0/m/KoQF6jLw5zAJ
>
> > abbreviated card text:
> > he or she must burn X pool and/or cards at random from his or her
> > hand, where X is the number of counters on this card"
> >
> > I've seen the ruling that when X=2 or more and discarding is chosen
> > that all discards must be made prior to replacing.
>
> Yes. Also trivially true when X=1.
>
Name: Smiling Jack, The Anarch [Jyhad:R, VTES:R, CE:R, Third:PTz, KoT:R, SP:DoF1, V5:PN1, V5A:PG1, NB2:PG1] Cardtype: Master Unique. Put this card in play. During your unlock phase, move 1 counter from your pool to this card. During each other Methuselah's unlock phase, for each counter on this card, that Methuselah burns 1 pool or burns 1 blood from a vampire they control. Vampires can burn this card as a (D) action. Artist: Drew Tucker; Kieran Yanner
www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/77053-smiling-jack#91000
> Ankha wrote:
> >LivesByProxy wrote:
> >I think yes to all your questions.
>
> >Think of it like this:
>
> >For each counter on Jack, choose one (1):
> >* Burn 1 pool.
> >* Burn 1 blood from a vampire you control.
>
> >If there are 3 counters on Jack, you're making the above choice three times. You can 'share' >between your pool and any of your vampire's blood as you choose.
>
> >Maybe it would help if it were worded differently:
> >During each other Methuselah's unlock phase, for each counter on Jack, that Methuselah >burns 1 pool or burns 1 blood from a vampire they control.
>
> Correct.
>
> >LivesByProxy wrote:
> > During each other Methuselah's unlock phase, for each counter on Jack, that Methuselah >burns 1 pool or burns 1 blood from a vampire they control.
>
> and "During each other Methuselah's unlock phase, that Methuselah burns 1 pool or burns 1 blood from a vampire they control for each counter on Jack"
>
> are the same.
>
Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.