Tenebrous form vs Second Tradition

A lasombra is bleeding, then a prince burns 1 blood and untaps and attempts to block with second tradition: domain. The lasombra then plays tenebrous form. Is the filthy camarilla prince obliged to burn the blood due to second tradition, that say's he "attempts to block"? Or he can back out and give up the block attempt? thanks! Name: Tenebrous Form Cardtype: Action Modifier Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Obtenebration [obt] +1 stealth. [OBT] As above, and minions without Obtenebration [obt] must burn 1 blood to attempt to block (allies cannot burn blood). Name: Second Tradition: Domain Cardtype: Reaction Requires a prince or justicar. +2 intercept. Also usable by a locked prince or justicar, even if intercept is not yet needed, to burn 1 blood to unlock and attempt to block with +2 intercept. I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

Controller of the Prince can choose to burn the blood and continue attempting to block or decline to block and not paying for the blood required by tenebrous form

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > A lasombra is bleeding, then a prince burns 1 blood and untaps and attempts to block with second tradition: domain. > > The lasombra then plays tenebrous form. > > Is the filthy camarilla prince obliged to burn the blood due to second tradition, that say's he "attempts to block"? Or he can back out and give up the block attempt? > In that order, the Prince was attempting to block when you played Tenebrous Form. Then, the Prince "must burn 1 blood to attempt to block". However, he can choose not to block anymore instead. groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/1khXmKPU0ws/m/Je_X4gvv72kJ Note that if you had played Tenebrous Form before the Second Tradition (for instance, you bleed, someone attempts to block, you play Tenebrous Form), then a locked Prince would have to pay 1 blood for the Second Tradition AND burn 1 blood if they wanted to play that card, as Second Tradition forces you to attempt to block when you play it. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

This ruling seems wrong to me, as far as I’m aware an attempt to block cannot just simply be aborted …once started it either succeeds or fails Furthermore the attempt to block has already been started in the given scenario which makes no sense that it has to be paid for retroactively… if I’m not wrong one doesn’t need to “continuously” attempt to block once the attempt has been announced…would be illogical as it is a impulse resetting effect and would mean the attempting to block minion cannot do anything but announce an attempt to block every time they get the impulse. “Attempt to block” as a reaction effect is not the same as “attempting to block” as an ongoing state… but I could be wrong

> inm8 wrote: > This ruling seems wrong to me, as far as I’m aware an attempt to block cannot just simply be aborted …once started it either succeeds or fails > > Furthermore the attempt to block has already been started in the given scenario which makes no sense that it has to be paid for retroactively… if I’m not wrong one doesn’t need to “continuously” attempt to block once the attempt has been announced…would be illogical as it is a impulse resetting effect and would mean the attempting to block minion cannot do anything but announce an attempt to block every time they get the impulse. > > “Attempt to block” as a reaction effect is not the same as “attempting to block” as an ongoing state… but I could be wrong > Well the Second Tradition forces the vampire to attempt to block once you play the card, so if Tenebrous form was played before than the locked prince needs to burn 2 bloods (one for second tradition and on for tenebrous form) but if Second tradition is played before Tenebrous form the card only force you to attempt to block at the moment you play it, after that you continue blocking if you fulfil all the conditions (like having enough intercept) but if the conditions changes, and with the must burn blood clause of Tenebrous form they changed, the controller decides as the force of the second tradition has already been dealt with

It's strange because the wording on the card does not say you have the option to back out. Only say that you MUST TO. But attempts to block are optional, but you usually can't back out of a second tradition domain attempt to block. So why can you now back out? I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish

> Charles_Bronson wrote: > It's strange because the wording on the card does not say you have the option to back out. Only say that you MUST TO. > > But attempts to block are optional, but you usually can't back out of a second tradition domain attempt to block. So why can you now back out? > "must do X TO do Y" is a cost for an effect, which leaves the player the choice to pay or not. It's different from "vampires attempting to block must burn 1 blood" (or "burn 1 blood" for that matter, "must" being redundant) for instance which wouldn't be a cost but an effect. Also, the condition to attempt to block is not met anymore as soon as Tenebrous Form is played, and as long as the blocking minion has not paid. That's why the blocking minion isn't attempting to block anymore if they don't pay that blood "to attempt to block" (again). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

If you unlock and attempt to block (paying one blood for 2nd tradition) and the gorgeous lasombra bleeding already have 2 stealth and play tenebrous, going to 3 stealth you are not forced to pay the blood to tenebrous, you can give up and submit you fate to the shadows of nigth, it´s inevitable David Resende - Prince of Teresina

I think i'm understanding it now. But now I have another question: The filthy lasombra bleeds. Arika tries to block. He then plays tenebrous form. Can the betrayer queen anne plays a second tradition to untap, choose not to play the blood from tenebrous from and then play a deflection? thanks Oh, you already answered me. I must be able to play the blood to be able to play the second tradition. Thanks Ankha I am death. Paul Kersey, Death Wish