Hello everybody, I am Milos Krstic, Vtes National Coordinator for Serbia and i want to inform you all that Ankha aka Vincent Ripoll arbitrarily removed all my TWDA and Hall of Fame enteries(10 of them) from TWDA because he did not like my criticism of the pace and quality of his work as a BCP employee regarding the updating of TWDA. This flagrant violation of players' rights is the first time, as far as i am aware, that a member of VEKN and/or BCP acts in such an appaling manner using tyrannical methods to punish those they disagree with. The above-mentioned person also made threats of physical violence towards me because he "was really pissed off" and "wanted to teach me a lesson" claiming he "was insulted"(no insults were made towards this person by anyone).
All this means that no other Vtes Players will be safe from this individual in the future, be it criticizing, arguing about rulings or simply winning tournament game against him, unless this kind of behaviour is rooted out before it infects and destroys our Vtes community.
I am already informed that players are shocked and angry about this capricious act and if this is not rectified in the shortest possible time actions will follow. Stay tuned.
If you want the true story:
www.vekn.net/forum/generic-v-tes-discussion/81090-selective-addition-of-decklists-to-twda
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Is this some badly constructed joke? Can't you tell the difference between working for BCP and doing additional job you are *not paid for* by anyone?
Milos, TWDA is not run by BCP, they're not paying anyone to do it. You're not happy with how it's run? Create your own ATWDA (Awesome TWDA) and run it "properly". What is next, you gonna chase all these VTES-related tools creators? Regarding physical threats - I don't see these anywhere.
Throwing around unfounded accusations is far from living up to any kind of standards or professionalism…I would expect much more especially from a NC…if one doesn’t understand why things are as they are it is always much better to ask for an explanation instead of insinuating foul play and misconduct.
It has been posted about and is open knowledge that anyone that wants to expedite the process to see their tournament reports show up in the TWD list is welcome to do the submission on their own…which also lightens the burden…heck there is even a YouTube video how to do it.
> KoRneeshon wrote:
> Is this some badly constructed joke? Can't you tell the difference between working for BCP and doing additional job you are *not paid for* by anyone?
> Milos, TWDA is not run by BCP, they're not paying anyone to do it. You're not happy with how it's run? Create your own ATWDA (Awesome TWDA) and run it "properly". What is next, you gonna chase all these VTES-related tools creators? Regarding physical threats - I don't see these anywhere.
>
Going with this information:
"Vincent Ripoll is founder/employee of BCP and works to advance Vtes so he could reap more profit. Ankha is a player, prince, rules director, rating coordinator, member of VEKN and person responsible for updating TWDA in an orderly fashion"
TWDA is -> well, run by BCP staff.
Following action was performed:
"Now, since I'm really pissed off by your behavior and because sometimes some people need a lesson about how to behave on forums, I'll just remove all your TWD from the archive until you apologize."
This is blackmail from BCP employee.
Destruction of TWDA records is concerning, as it's done in this manner.
Coming from BCP employee where Serbia did around 2000-5000e of product orders this year put the whole conversation on another level, as Vincent Ripoll is threatening NC of Serbia.
I do not see how this is good for the business of BCP.
Strange days we live in.
OK, but - to be confirmed by Ankha - TWDA is run independently of BCP, by Ankha. If so, it doesn't matter if he's BCP's employee / founder. He can close TWDA and BCP would be still happy to employ him. He can be fired from BCP and still run TWDA if he wishes. These things are independent, although both are VTES related.
I mean Ankha probably also has a car, so we can say his car is run by a BCP employee. If he gives you a ride to the VTES tournament, would you start demanding special services in his car? Because, hey, it's BCP employee driven, he's already paid by BCP, so it's good for VTES if he gives snacks and bar during that ride, right? And it's insulting if he doesn't!
Unless running TWDA is one of his BCP duties - which, from the linked post, doesn't seem to be true.
To be clear, I'm not agreeing with the deletion of anything from TWDA,as it is universally used tool and it has its value decreased by this. Also, it might have been too harsh / too quick decision (as it was made in the same moment more details regarding this subject was provided), maybe more explanation was needed to clarify that TWDA and BCP are independent stuff before taking such action. But Ankha still had every right to do so, and BCP can politely ask him to undo this at best. That being said, apologies for misunderstanding of how TWDA is run is also not something otherworldly hard to imagine.
Known troll who has been banned in several places for toxic behavior continues to be a toxic cake baby over **checks notes** a volunteer not doing data entry fast enough for his liking.
get a grip, dude.
Just to be sure, are we ok with TWDa recorded being destroyed?
As I see it this is close to alteration of history as it can be.
Sure, some records are preserved somewhere, but for now, TDWa is altered with deletion.
The next question on the subject is who is next to be removed?
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Slow replies on the subject, shame.
>
Well, Ankha told HIM what to do to get HIS entries back. Did HE repent HIS sins? Did HE do it? Being an a#%hole comes with a price, HE should know.
*edited to account for a third person perspective which got lost, because I don‘t read every full thread all the time.
<INSERT CLEVER QUOTATION HERE>
It IS a slow forum Milos, and the world doesn't revolve around you.
And kinda like Alf said, if you choose to be an a-hole do not be surprised if you get treated as one...
Finnish Politics!
Hello Deranged people (Lönkka, and Alf)
>
> alf wrote:
>
> > mipopo3 wrote:
> > Slow replies on the subject, shame.
> >
> Well, Ankha told you what to do to get your entries back. Did you repent your sins? Did you do it? Being an a#%hole comes with a price, you know
>
> Lönkka wrote:
> It IS a slow forum Milos, and the world doesn't revolve around you.
>
> And kinda like Alf said, if you choose to be an a-hole do not be surprised if you get treated as one...
>
As can be seen from my email, am not Miloš.
Doing some basic background checks, one can see that I exist as a registered player.
And have tournament involvement.
So am not sure if is this a racist thing or if the combined IQ is lover than the room temperature.
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Doing some basic background checks, one can see that I exist as a registered player.
> And have tournament involvement.
> So am not sure if is this a racist thing or if the combined IQ is lover than the room temperature.
>
I am Milos Krstic and i approve this message.
On the sidenote, dear moderators of this forum i know the above people are your BCP shills but are you going to let them use vulgar and foul language here as they please? What, you don't care? In fact you support the use of any mean against those who disagree with you?
Ok, message understood...
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Doing some basic background checks, one can see that I exist as a registered player.
> And have tournament involvement.
> So am not sure if is this a racist thing or if the combined IQ is lover than the room temperature.
>
There's the report this post button if you feel forum rules have been broken.
If you feel people are being racist in VEKN forums, feel free to use the proper procedures VEKN has put in place with their code of ethics available here;
www.vekn.net/images/stories/downloads/VEKN_Code_of_Ethics.pdf
In case people cannot be bothered to read said documentation they've been placed under simply by being a VEKN member, here might be the relevant parts;
"...The following is a list of examples of actions and behaviour that are considered un-
ethical. It is not intended to be exhaustive. Any action or behaviour that is inconsistent
with the principles of fair play, good sporting, honesty, or respect for the rights and
well-of others may be considered to fall within the scope of this code of ethics.
...
• submitting a falsified tournament report;
• offering insult, slur, or other language that is derogatory towards an entire class
of people based on their race, ethnicity, sex, gender, sexual orientation, disa-
bility, class, religion, age, or other self-identified or imputed identity to any
person, present or not present, at the event;
• defaming the character of a VEKN member, either by slander or libel;
..."
That document outlines the procedure on what to do when ethics issues arise. As there is no "have public circlejerk over issue while not contacting orgplay {a} blackchantry.com" step on it, I saw no reason to partake or continue this discussion at proper depth until there's been attempt to use proper channels by the parties who feel they've been affected and they've been declined said routes in breach of CoE.
Your latest reply made me ponder whether or not your NC has informed you of that document as you could have raised your issue of "Serbian NC being threatened" via that route almost a month ago. Not to mention this latest racist question. I'm sure quite few of the people here assumed Serbian NC raised this issue via proper channels and it was just being handled in the commmittee as that is the procedure. It is after all the reasonable and rational thing that adults do when they see rules being broken, they follow the rules as two wrongs do not make a right.
Incidentally it is also how the matter in the OP should have proceeded in the first place, then again without properly quantified requirements, training and motivation to learn, how can VEKN NC's know about the existence of Code of Ethics put into place to solve issues like this. It's not like there was multiple attempts to highlight it over the years. One would assume people representing organisation on national level would understand the organisation they're representing and it's rules or at least have motivation to do the required research on it that amounts to clicking all links in the "Rules" section of the site and reading what follows. For some it's much easier to be like me, a common plebeian ignorant and rambling endlessly, wasting people's time with one wall of text after another.
As I'm writing this I have to wonder, if Serbian NC did not raise it, and if you have not either while knowing about the Code of Ethics, especially after this reply of mine, is there perhaps a reason and if there is, what it could be. I might never know, yet another of those mysteries of the internets...
Until someone raises the issue via CoE, this is all like fart in Sahara, just waiting to disappear into the wastes. Unfortunately for some, it has left brown panties in a twist. Perhaps to prevent future brown panties, some forum tool usage towards this thread is required. Affected individuals can start a new one if the CoE path is denied and then I'm sure all moderators are more then happy to merge it to this one to continue the discussion.
Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Hi Kilrauko,
I see no entry on TWDa records being destroyed as a course of action.
I can't speak ono Serbia NC's actions, in what he did or did not do.
But TWDa records have been destroyed.
NC is not banned from tournaments.
This was done by the Site moderator and BCP employee, so I do not see how the process is followed as described in the linked document, and no such sanction is set in the rules.
Regarding my case:
For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.
For those that did miss the main point:
>
> smeeag wrote:
> >The next question on the subject is who is next to be removed?
> The next question on the subject is who is next volunteer to maintain TWDA *better*.
>
I did a reply on it with an image and posted:
>
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Slow replies on the subject, shame.
>
For now, as I know, there is more than 1 tournament with less than 10 players that are on TWDa (17 in total).
That is against rules that state that no tournament with less than 10 players will be on TWDa.
So who is going to resolve that?
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Hi Kilrauko,
>
> I see no entry on TWDa records being destroyed as a course of action.
>
> I can't speak ono Serbia NC's actions, in what he did or did not do.
> But TWDa records have been destroyed.
> NC is not banned from tournaments.
> This was done by the Site moderator and BCP employee, so I do not see how the process is followed as described in the linked document, and no such sanction is set in the rules.
>
> Regarding my case:
> For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
> Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.
>
Very astute of you to notice that TWDa is not mentioned in the pdf. It could indicate that the TWDa is not something that is VEKN related. In fact what VEKN does is listed under 1.4 here www.vekn.net/v-ekn-faq .
Now if you're just now realizing this and wish to contact the site admin related to what happens at www.vekn.fr/decks/twd.htm you're unfortunately at the wrong site. It's easy to mistake the *.net and *.fr top level domain difference if you're not internet savvy or just in a hurry. As it's third party site, VEKN really has no say on what happens *.fr outside the possible criminal issues or copyright breaches that hopefully will never happen. Just as the VEKN has no say if you decide to start www.vekn.rs with it's own TWDa and national forums. Might want to jump quickly tho, with it's low low cost of 10 € a year to park it, who knows what kind of content someone could put on there.
As for the process you've listed, I'm assuming you're still not understanding that the Code of Ethics requires active participation from you and/or from the NC depending on the matter. After all it specifically mentions how the committee might choose to start on their own but, and I quote; "This process should be exceedingly rare, but may be required to address egregious ethics violations occurring outside the purview of sanctioned events." If they've not started any process now, it's clearly not egregious ethic violation as this is the official forum and they've most certainly seen posts and replies on this nearly month old thread. This however does not prevent you personally from sending email and following the process.
Allow me to explain the pdf process in three easy steps via google translate (I'll link it bit later, just in case you've not used it before as it could help understand the documents, posts and other things posted here better.) For the other and future users, I'll provide the english version in case people ever find themselves in similar situation and are unsure what the the process is. translate.google.com/ has taken leaps forward, so feel free to use to translate the three steps to your native language.
1. Осећате се као да вам је учињена неправда. <- Овде сте.
2. Контактирате комисију путем е-поште и објасните свој проблем. <- Ово би требало да урадите уместо да објављујете овде.
3. Они ће истражити да ли постоји проблем или сте само збуњени шта је ВЕКН проблем, а шта није. <- Ово је решење проблема.
Aka
1. You feel like you've been wronged. <- You are here.
2. You contact the committee via email and explain your issue. <- This is what you should do instead posting here.
3. They'll investigate if there is issue or if you're just confused on what is VEKN issue and what is not. <- This is the resolution to the issue.
Mind you that three parter is related to the potential issues at hand and discussed here. In a possible future case, people need to consult the CoE pdf, check if it has been changed and then proceed accordingly.
As for the previous posters and that whole thing, yes, being unable to move forward with a complaint could be a thing. In fact it could backfire as calling someone something they are not that could harm their reputation is the definition of slander, or клевета. Which is against the Code of Ethics when done during VEKN related activities, which this very forum is part of by the definition of VEKN FAQ, Forum Guidelines and CoE. If you're unsure, remember the "It is not intended to be exhaustive." part of the CoE's example cases. It's one thing to shout at the wind in third party sites, here VEKN rules and codes apply. Whether or not calling someone a deranged, racist fits that definition is up to the context. Is it friendly but crude banter or is it serious discussion on very serious topic plays huge part. Now I'm sure if you feel that you've been mistaken you'll take the appropiate actions and let the persons in question know what the context was, push forward with the previous viewpoint of yours or just let the matter be. I'm a stranger in the internet that types walls of text while listening to music and watching tv while pondering how I can make my Pieterzoon deck not suck more in 2024.
I hope people will continue to treat each others with the respect they rightly deserve here and assume the best instead the worst from people. For things that happen in other sites, well, any issues need to be raised there as, well, the previous fart in the sahara analogue applies. For TWDa, Bon Voyage on moving this issue to www.vekn.fr/forum/ I truly wish you all the luck to get the matter solved there. You should be able to bring matters of participant numbers, TWDa rule disparities and other such matters related to it up there as well.
Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.
Nice logic, but it's missing one key fact.
All communication was on this forum, not on French.
Added Edit, do not wish to add more unnecessary posts:
Once more I will not speak on what NC did, am not NC, nor can I take his place in the matter.
But all TWD records for this forum, are not on other forums.
Suggesting that TWD records need to be addressed in other locations is not in the manner it is in use now. Due to the fact all records from this forum are set on the same TWD, make that comment mute.
I am not sure about what is or is not understood.
The VEKN and/or BCP are NOT responsible for what happen in the TWDa.
Yes, this forum is the designed place for submitting TWD entry as it is the designed place to talk about VTES as a whole. In the same way that Smeeag decided to post updates about his own third party site here.
BUT, in the same way that nobody should call Smeeag name if they are not OK with the way he maintains his own third party website, nobody should call Ankha names about the way HE is maintaining his third party website.
To put it differently : Ankha was visibly hurt by someone in the course of doing a task on his personal website and decided to do something about it.
You (or about anyone) can complain to him about it and maybe find a solution to the problem at hand but, it is NOT a problem directly related with him (as you put it) being a BCP founder/employee.
And what you seems to consider a slippery slope is kind of right.
As of this date, a lot of people consult and refer to this wonderful tool which is the TWDa. If this site is not maintained or if it becomes less accurate, people will stop using it and it will be kind of forgotten. It would be sad but it will not be anything like "alteration of history" as sou said. Il will just be inaccuracy.
> mipopo3 wrote:
> I agree with you.
> TWDa is no longer where we should safekeeping and store VTES tournaments.
>
Cool if you agree with me but I am not sure who is the "we" you talk about.
"We" don't safekeep nor store any deck list. Ankha does.
And I understand in your different posts that you intend to do it (better) yourself.
I guess you can.
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Hi Kilrauko,
> Regarding my case:
> For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
> Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.
>
Racist you say, Milos/whichever alter ego/ sock puppet this is?
As Kilrauko said, this is indeed slander and it'll be very interesting to see what Ethics Committee will say about that! Shall you or shall I?
Finnish Politics!
I see finnish people have too much free time on their hands but also total protection by this forum's moderators to say whatever they want to whomever they want. Sad...
> Lönkka wrote:
>
> > mipopo3 wrote:
> > Hi Kilrauko,
> > Regarding my case:
> > For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
> > Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.
> >
> Racist you say, Milos/whichever alter ego/ sock puppet this is?
>
> As Kilrauko said, this is indeed slander and it'll be very interesting to see what Ethics Committee will say about that! Shall you or shall I?
>
FYI this poster was reported.
I believe no action will be coming from that report, but this is for the rest to know that action was performed, and I expect no real reaction will be to it.
> Timo wrote:
>
> > mipopo3 wrote:
> > I agree with you.
> > TWDa is no longer where we should safekeeping and store VTES tournaments.
> >
> Cool if you agree with me but I am not sure who is the "we" you talk about.
>
> "We" don't safekeep nor store any deck list. Ankha does.
>
> And I understand in your different posts that you intend to do it (better) yourself.
>
> I guess you can.
>
Ah, Ankha is safekeeping decklists, how strange, I think deleting them is the opposite of it.
This can be coming as an antagonistic response, but it is not, it's just an observation.
Under "we" was referring to the forum.
This conversation is a big cane of worms, in short, yes, I can build a better tournament-winning deck archive.
The question becomes how many shares in BCP will I get from it, this refers to the fact that Ankha is invested in BCP.
Am coming into this conversation after the White Wolf era, so am not familiar with how things operated at that time.
At this point, I feel like Ankha is keeping all of the players as hostages now. As you stated it's his will, and no one is regulating him, in terms will TWD exist tomorrow, or will it operate?
I will work on a solution and hope to get some results in two months, on making a new TWDArchive.
> Timo wrote:
> Just for my information I would like to know what in my post gave you the need to report my post ?
>
Sorry for that, did an edit, and your post was not reported.
This one was thou.
>
> Lönkka wrote:
>
> > mipopo3 wrote:
> > Hi Kilrauko,
> > Regarding my case:
> > For now am not sure are Lönkka and Alf are racist or just unable to differentiate Serbia NC and Others from Serbia.
> > Thus, I am unable to move forward with a complaint, as there is no clear cut that can be substantiated.
> >
> Racist you say, Milos/whichever alter ego/ sock puppet this is?
>
> As Kilrauko said, this is indeed slander and it'll be very interesting to see what Ethics Committee will say about that! Shall you or shall I?
>
> mipopo3 wrote:
> The question becomes how many shares in BCP will I get from it, this refers to the fact that Ankha is invested in BCP.
>
Milos/Milos' sock puppet/whoever,
You now seem delusional in your trolling...
Why on earth would you receive BCP shares for doing anything?
Let alone for something someone does in their free time, not as a BCP owner (EDIT: / employee.).
Do the VEKN officials like NCs or Princes get BCP shares?
Why would record keeping enable the same? For Ankha? For you? Or for anybody?
This is all just the usual right wing style attacks. Behaving inappropriately and if someone calls BS on that taking the role of innocent victim.
Finnish Politics!
> mipopo3 wrote:
> Sorry for that, did an edit, and your post was not reported.
>
> This one was thou.
>
Excellent!
I most eagerly wait for what the Ethics Commitee has to say about this.
With my trusty tub of popcorn I keep on enjoying how you spiral further and further down in the pit you're digging yourself.
Finnish Politics!