Several Hidden Lurker played

After being blocked After the combat from the block You play a hidden Lurker with an unlocked vampire You have a new combat You are still in the window "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" from the first combat. You can still play another hidden Lurker with another vampire. Correct? Hidden Lurker Name: Hidden Lurker [Jyhad:C, VTES:C, SW:C, CE:U, KMW:PAn4] Cardtype: Action Modifier Discipline: Obfuscate Only usable by a ready unlocked vampire other than the acting minion. Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion. [obf] Lock this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking minion. The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot strike. [OBF] As above, with an optional press. Artist: Steve Casper

Based on card text I would say no...after the combat that was triggered from the first Hidden Lurker you wouldn't be able to meet the requirement "Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" because it would now not be after a combat between the acting and the blocker but after a combat between a non-acting and the blocker.

Found this ruling that supports the above. > LSJ wrote: > > If I block and play Blissful Agony (superior) during the combat > > can the acting minion's controller follow up with a Hidden Lurker? > No. > Hidden Lurker can only be played after a combat between the acting > minion and a blocking minion. > The Blissful Agony combat is not such a combat (unless you do a lot of > other card gymnastics in there to make it such a combat, in which case > card text on HL will be met, so HL could be played). >

I see I never had an official answer about this I will clarify one point. I am not queuing two combats. After being blocked After the combat from the block You play a hidden Lurker with an unlocked vampire You have a new combat After this second combat is over... ¿Can another unlocked minion you control play another hidden Lurker and start another combat with the blocking vampire? Time-wise and language-wise it is still "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" Game-wise I feel the window "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" is closed right at the moment the first combat from Hidden Lurker starts. This question raised thinking about The Guardian and the use of Freak Drive. I understand that the acting bleeding minion can only play Freak Drive before the combat. I think that "after action resolution" window is closed right at the moment the combat with the guardian started. So a freak drive could not be played after the combat. Although technically it is "after action resolution" This question is to understand better when windows are opened and closed. And I think the question is After another events queues, does the previous windows get closed? Thanks. Name: Freak Drive [Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, CE:U/PV2, Anarchs:PG, LoB:PA2, Third:U, LotN:PR, KoT:PV3, HttB:PSam2, 25th:3, V5:PV6, NB:PV5, V5C:PSal4] Cardtype: Action Modifier Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Fortitude Only usable after action resolution. [for] Only usable if the action was successful. Unlock this vampire. [FOR] Only usable if the action was blocked. Unlock this vampire. Artist: Daniel Gelon; Nilson; Ken Meyer, Jr. Name: The Guardian [FoL:2] Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Nosferatu Group: 6 Capacity: 4 Discipline: ani cel pot Camarilla: The Guardian cannot perform directed actions unless you control a ready unique older Nosferatu. The Guardian can lock after resolution of a successful bleed against you to enter combat with the acting minion. Artist: Riccardo Fabiani

> Coyote wrote: > I see I never had an official answer about this > > I will clarify one point. I am not queuing two combats. > > After being blocked > After the combat from the block > You play a hidden Lurker with an unlocked vampire > You have a new combat > After this second combat is over... > ¿Can another unlocked minion you control play another hidden Lurker and start another combat with the blocking vampire? > > Time-wise and language-wise it is still "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" > > Game-wise I feel the window "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" is closed right at the moment the first combat from Hidden Lurker starts. > Hidden Luker Only usable by a ready unlocked vampire other than the acting minion. Only usable after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion. Lock this vampire. This vampire enters combat with the blocking minion. The first round of this new combat, the blocking minion cannot strike. As above, with an optional press. You have vampire A (acting) in combat with vampire B(blocking). just after this combat between A & B, your minion C (which is not acting) plays hidden lurker. Then after that combat between minion C (not acting minion) and minion B (blocking) you CAN'T play another hidden lurker as per cardtext of hidden lurker as the combat between C & B is not between an acting minion and a blocking minion, this combat between C & B has closed the window "after combat between an acting minion and a blocking minion" > Coyote wrote: > This question raised thinking about The Guardian and the use of Freak Drive. > I understand that the acting bleeding minion can only play Freak Drive before the combat. I think that "after action resolution" window is closed right at the moment the combat with the guardian started. So a freak drive could not be played after the combat. Although technically it is "after action resolution" > > This question is to understand better when windows are opened and closed. > And I think the question is > > After another events queues, does the previous windows get closed? > > Thanks. > > Name: Freak Drive > [Jyhad:R2, VTES:R, CE:U/PV2, Anarchs:PG, LoB:PA2, Third:U, LotN:PR, KoT:PV3, HttB:PSam2, 25th:3, V5:PV6, NB:PV5, V5C:PSal4] > Cardtype: Action Modifier > Cost: 1 blood > Discipline: Fortitude > Only usable after action resolution. > [for] Only usable if the action was successful. Unlock this vampire. > [FOR] Only usable if the action was blocked. Unlock this vampire. > Artist: Daniel Gelon; Nilson; Ken Meyer, Jr. > > Name: The Guardian > [FoL:2] > Cardtype: Vampire > Clan: Nosferatu > Group: 6 > Capacity: 4 > Discipline: ani cel pot > Camarilla: The Guardian cannot perform directed actions unless you control a ready unique older Nosferatu. The Guardian can lock after resolution of a successful bleed against you to enter combat with the acting minion. > Artist: Riccardo Fabiani > Freak Drive can be played after the combat as it is still after action resolution. Freak Drive Fortitude Only usable after action resolution. inf: Only usable if the action was successful. Unlock this vampire. sup: Only usable if the action was blocked. Unlock this vampire. Rulings: Is played after all combats are handled. Can be played from torpor. [RTR 19980623] [LSJ 20030103] [ANK 20180906] Can be played if the action is unblocked even if it has no effect due to lack of a suitable target. [LSJ 20070411] Is played after the action resolves. (eg. if played after equipping Learjet, you draw an additional card). [PIB 20150915] Is played after resolution, but still during the action. Action modifiers and effects that can be played "after resolution" can be played before or after it. [LSJ 19981028][ANK 20190425]

That is kinda contradictory and is what I am trying to figure out. First I want to clarify that, when I say play a second Hidden Lurker, it is not activated by the combat of the first Hidden Lurker, but because I argue if it is still in the window from the first blocked combat. Case A. Hidden Lurker "after a combat" window starts after the end of a combat. And this window should end right before "After resolution" window start. So Vampire A is blocked by vampire X. Vampire A combats blocking vampire X and ends. Window "after a combat" for Hidden Lurker starts. Vampire B plays Hidden Lurker and start a combat with X. Combat ends. The window "after a combat" (the window from combat between A and blocking X) is still not closed. So a Vampire C could play a Hidden Lurker to combat with vampire X. No because he has fought vampire B but because previously he blocked and combated vampire A. If it can't, I want to understand why the window is closed. Case B. The guardian and Freak Drive "After resolution" window starts after blocked combat (and its subsequent combats in case of psyche and similar) are handled or after resolute/fizzle of the action if not blocked. That is why freak drive can be (and must be) played after combats FROM BLOCKING. The guardian is different as it queues a combat not during the blocking resolution but after the resolution of the action. When the window "After resolution" has already started. So. When a window ends/get closed? If the window of Hidden Lurker gets closed when the combat from Hidden Lurker starts and avoids playing second Hidden Lurker after the first combat, why the window "after resolution" can span even after a combat from The guardian? I feel this is contradictory, and mainly because I feel it is not clear when some windows are closed.

> Coyote wrote: > After being blocked > After the combat from the block > You play a hidden Lurker with an unlocked vampire > You have a new combat > > You are still in the window "after a combat between the acting minion you control and a blocking minion" from the first combat. > No, this is long passed. "after" means "immediately after" Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Thank you. That helps a lot. I understand that it always applies. So you can't play a Freak Drive after you had a combat with The guardian, caused by its ability to enter combat against a minion after a successful bleed. If you wish to play a Freak Drive, it should be right after the successful bleed and before entering in combat by The Guardian. Not just some moment after a successful bleed. So from now I will read "after" as "immediately after". That makes sense and a lot clearer.

> Coyote wrote: > Thank you. > > That helps a lot. > > I understand that it always applies. So you can't play a Freak Drive after you had a combat with The guardian, caused by its ability to enter combat against a minion after a successful bleed. If you wish to play a Freak Drive, it should be right after the successful bleed and before entering in combat by The Guardian. Not just some moment after a successful bleed. > > So from now I will read "after" as "immediately after". That makes sense and a lot clearer. > the player controlling the acting minion will have the priority to play effects or cards (such as Freak Drive) and then the other players (Guardian), so the acting could play Freak Drive before you have the opportunity to use The Guardian effect.