The Line & Pack Alpha

Can The Line be used to reduce the cost of a retainer played through Pack Alpha? Relevant ruling [LSJ 20090920] The Line Unique location. Lock to reduce the cost of an action card played by a vampire you control by 1 blood (this location is not locked if that card is canceled as it is played). Any vampire can steal this location as a Ⓓ action. Pack Alpha A vampire may play only one Pack Alpha each round. This vampire employs an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. Pay cost as normal. Burn an animal retainer employed by this vampire and put this card on this vampire. The minion with this card gets +1 strength. A minion may have only one Pack Alpha.

> lip wrote: > Can The Line be used to reduce the cost of a retainer played through Pack Alpha? > > Relevant ruling [LSJ 20090920] > > The Line > > Unique location. > > Lock to reduce the cost of an action card played by a vampire you control by 1 blood (this location is not locked if that card is canceled as it is played). Any vampire can steal this location as a Ⓓ action. > > Pack Alpha > > A vampire may play only one Pack Alpha each round. > This vampire employs an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. Pay cost as normal. > Burn an animal retainer employed by this vampire and put this card on this vampire. The minion with this card gets +1 strength. A minion may have only one Pack Alpha. > Yes. Longer; LSJ has in the past ruled that groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/vSOt2c1uRzQ/m/MsRAv47Cd4YJ 1) "All cost-affecting cards operate no matter how the card is played ("as normal" or otherwise). All multiplication and division is handled first, followed by addition and subtraction. Note that pay nothing still means pay nothing, even if something else would add to the cost. So costs for cards canceled by Sudden Reversal or Direct Intervention are still not paid, for example. And Bauble and Horrid Reality still gets weapons for free. And similar for Helena and Dragos. Similarly, cards that can be used to pay some of the cost of other cards can be used whenever such a cost is being paid (regardless of whether the card is played "as normal" or not)." and groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/cAGuCHSPIMY/m/22_BPQF8kMQJ 2) "Petri Wessman wrote: > Two related questions: first off, can I use Powerbase Tswane or > Eccentric Billionaire to reduce the cost of equipment I retrieve from > my own ash heap via Kiss of Lachesis? Both say that they reduce the > cost of a card I play by one, so does Kiss of Lachesis count for that? Kiss counts that, yeah." Relevant cards; Name: Powerbase: Tshwane [LoB:R] Cardtype: Master Master: unique location. Requires a ready Laibon. Lock this location to reduce the cost of a card you play by 1 pool (this location is not locked if that card is canceled as it is played). Any Laibon may steal this location for his or her controller as a (D) action. Artist: William O'Connor Name: Eccentric Billionaire [SoC:C] Cardtype: Ally Clan: Toreador antitribu Cost: 3 pool Mortal with 1 life. 0 strength, 2 bleed. Billionaire may lock to reduce the cost of an equipment or location you or any of your minions play by 1 pool. Only one Billionaire may be used to reduce the cost of a given card. Artist: Pat McEvoy Name: Kiss of Lachesis [BL:C1, LoB:C, POD:DTC] Cardtype: Action Cost: 1 blood Discipline: Temporis/Serpentis +1 stealth action. [ser] (D) Burn a retainer or a non-unique equipment. [tem] (D) Burn an ally, retainer or non-unique equipment. [TEM] Move a non-unique equipment card from any Methuselah's ash heap to this vampire. If the equipment card comes from your ash heap, pay half the cost rounded down, otherwise pay no cost. Artist: Dennis Calero Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

> Kilrauko wrote: > LSJ has in the past ruled that groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/vSOt2c1uRzQ/m/MsRAv47Cd4YJ > 1) "All cost-affecting cards operate no matter how the card is played ("as normal" > or otherwise). All multiplication and division is handled first, followed by > addition and subtraction. > 7/7 strikes again This seems pretty conclusive for to me.

Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the effect of "The Line" restricted to Action Cards only, per card text?

> garou66 wrote: > Forgive me if I am wrong, but isn't the effect of "The Line" restricted to Action Cards only, per card text? > See the rulebook and cards, action cards have action card symbol on them (and on newer cards text "action" as well). This was last discussed here www.vekn.net/forum/generic-v-tes-discussion/80745-political-action-cards#108931 Note also on the rules how under Employ retainer the following is stated; > > ... Effect: Retainers are action cards that give minions special abilities. ... > Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

A retainer card usually is an action card

Thanks for all your replies. If our dear RD is around though, I'd appreciate a direct ruling to avoid debates, if that's possible.

> Kilrauko wrote: > > > lip wrote: > > Can The Line be used to reduce the cost of a retainer played through Pack Alpha? > > > > Relevant ruling [LSJ 20090920] > > > > The Line > > > > Unique location. > > > > Lock to reduce the cost of an action card played by a vampire you control by 1 blood (this location is not locked if that card is canceled as it is played). Any vampire can steal this location as a Ⓓ action. > > > > Pack Alpha > > > > A vampire may play only one Pack Alpha each round. > > This vampire employs an animal retainer from your hand before range is determined. Pay cost as normal. > > Burn an animal retainer employed by this vampire and put this card on this vampire. The minion with this card gets +1 strength. A minion may have only one Pack Alpha. > > > Yes. > > Longer; > > LSJ has in the past ruled that groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/vSOt2c1uRzQ/m/MsRAv47Cd4YJ > 1) "All cost-affecting cards operate no matter how the card is played ("as normal" > or otherwise). All multiplication and division is handled first, followed by > addition and subtraction. > Note that pay nothing still means pay nothing, even if something else would add > to the cost. So costs for cards canceled by Sudden Reversal or Direct > Intervention are still not paid, for example. And Bauble and Horrid Reality > still gets weapons for free. And similar for Helena and Dragos. > > Similarly, cards that can be used to pay some of the cost of other cards can be > used whenever such a cost is being paid (regardless of whether the card is > played "as normal" or not)." > > and > groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/cAGuCHSPIMY/m/22_BPQF8kMQJ > > 2) "Petri Wessman wrote: > > Two related questions: first off, can I use Powerbase Tswane or > > Eccentric Billionaire to reduce the cost of equipment I retrieve from > > my own ash heap via Kiss of Lachesis? Both say that they reduce the > > cost of a card I play by one, so does Kiss of Lachesis count for that? > > Kiss counts that, yeah." > Correct. BTW, all LSJ/Floppy rulings are valid, unless there's a more recent official ruling saying otherwise. I'm not sure why we would need a further confirmation. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director