Cats' Guidance before Psyche! combat

The following question arose from a discussion in the discord Now that the card text of Cats' Guidance has changed is it possible for it to be played in the "Obedience" window (step 5 below)? 1) Vamp A bleeds 2) Vamp B blocks 3) Combat happens 4) Combat is about to end, Psyche is played 5) "Obedience" window, can Cats' Guidance be played unlocking Vamp B? 6) Psyche combat starts If yes to the above, is the below ruling not relevant anymore? Cats’ Guidance ruling Cats' Guidance (current text) Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Animalism Only usable by a locked vampire who has blocked, after block resolution. Unlock this vampire. +1 intercept. Cats' Guidance (old text) Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Animalism Only usable by a tapped vampire immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any). Untap this reacting vampire. +1 intercept. Psyche! Cardtype: Combat Discipline: Celerity Press. Only usable at the end of a round when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion. Obedience ruling original Obedience ruling latest Obedience Cardtype: Reaction Discipline: Dominate Only usable {if} this vampire is about to enter combat with an acting younger vampire. Unlock the acting vampire and end the action. (Do not lock this vampire if they are blocking.) The acting vampire cannot take the same action this turn. As above, but do not unlock the acting vampire.

Question also applies to gaps between two combats caused by Hidden lurker or Marie-Pierre.

Anyone?

> inm8 wrote: > The following question arose from a discussion in the discord > > Now that the card text of Cats' Guidance has changed is it possible for it to be played in the "Obedience" window (step 5 below)? > > 1) Vamp A bleeds > 2) Vamp B blocks > 3) Combat happens > 4) Combat is about to end, Psyche is played > 5) "Obedience" window, can Cats' Guidance be played unlocking Vamp B? > 6) Psyche combat starts > No. There is no functional change. > inm8 wrote: > If yes to the above, is the below ruling not relevant anymore? > > Cats’ Guidance ruling > Moot. The ruling still applies. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Snodig wrote: > Question also applies to gaps between two combats caused by Hidden lurker or Marie-Pierre. > They follow the same priority rules as any other effects sharing the same window. groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/zFmoLa6tzWA/m/ZhLr4SGt0xQJ Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > inm8 wrote: > > The following question arose from a discussion in the discord > > > > Now that the card text of Cats' Guidance has changed is it possible for it to be played in the "Obedience" window (step 5 below)? > > > > 1) Vamp A bleeds > > 2) Vamp B blocks > > 3) Combat happens > > 4) Combat is about to end, Psyche is played > > 5) "Obedience" window, can Cats' Guidance be played unlocking Vamp B? > > 6) Psyche combat starts > > > No. There is no functional change. > Is this to be taken as there is no difference between “immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any).” and “after block resolution”? Does this ruling mean that “block resolution” encompasses all combats (block related one and Psyche related one) as part of one and the same “block resolution” and that the “block resolution” doesn’t end with the first block related combat?

> inm8 wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > inm8 wrote: > > > The following question arose from a discussion in the discord > > > > > > Now that the card text of Cats' Guidance has changed is it possible for it to be played in the "Obedience" window (step 5 below)? > > > > > No. There is no functional change. > > > Is this to be taken as there is no difference between “immediately after he or she blocks (play after combat, if any).” and “after block resolution”? > Exactly. > inm8 wrote: > Does this ruling mean that “block resolution” encompasses all combats (block related one and Psyche related one) as part of one and the same “block resolution” and that the “block resolution” doesn’t end with the first block related combat? > Yes, even though a distinction must be made between the combat resulting from the block and the other combats (resulting from other effects). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

The rulebook prior to V5 release stated the below (highlight in bold by me): > If the action is blocked, then any card played to take the action is burned (it is moved to the ash heap) and the block is resolved: the blocking minion is locked and enters combat with the acting minion (see Combat, sec. 6.4). The "lock + enter combat" part is called the block resolution, and locking and entering combat happen at the same time. > and the current rulebook below still insinuates the same, might be a good idea to improve the wording to make clear what "block resolution" encompasses > If the action is blocked, then any card played to perform the action is burned and the block is resolved with these two simultaneous consequences: the blocking minion is locked and enters combat with the acting minion (see Combat). If an effect ends the action before the block resolution or one of these two consequences (such as entering combat), neither consequence occurs. >

> Ankha wrote: > > > Snodig wrote: > > Question also applies to gaps between two combats caused by Hidden lurker or Marie-Pierre. > > > They follow the same priority rules as any other effects sharing the same window. > > groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/zFmoLa6tzWA/m/ZhLr4SGt0xQJ > The ruling linked refers to “1.6.1.6”, which doesn’t tell me anything. Is this a reference to the old rule book chapters? If Marie Pierre and Hidden Lurker have the same timing and rules for sequencing, does that mean that once Hidden Lurker has been played, the blocker cannot play Cats (since he is now in combat)?

> Snodig wrote: > The ruling linked refers to “1.6.1.6”, which doesn’t tell me anything. Is this a reference to the old rule book chapters? > Yes, it is a reference to the "Sequencing" rule in the old online rulebook.

> Snodig wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > Snodig wrote: > > > Question also applies to gaps between two combats caused by Hidden lurker or Marie-Pierre. > > > > > They follow the same priority rules as any other effects sharing the same window. > > > > groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/zFmoLa6tzWA/m/ZhLr4SGt0xQJ > > > The ruling linked refers to “1.6.1.6”, which doesn’t tell me anything. Is this a reference to the old rule book chapters? > > If Marie Pierre and Hidden Lurker have the same timing and rules for sequencing, does that mean that once Hidden Lurker has been played, the blocker cannot play Cats (since he is now in combat)? > The acting Methuselah has priority to play Hidden Lurker. Once it's played, minions are in combat so the reacting Methuselah cannot play Cats' Guidance until after combat. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director