Aline Gädeke

Can Aline Gädeke use her special to unlock after another non-anarch vampire successfully performs the "become anarch" action? Aline Gädeke Cardtype: Vampire Clan: Brujah Group: 6 Capacity: 7 Discipline: cel POT PRE Anarch Baron of Mannheim: Once each turn, Aline can burn 1 blood to unlock after another Anarch you control performs a successful action. Artist: Ken Meyer, Jr. Become Anarch ◼ Who can become Anarch: Any ready untitled non-Anarch vampire. ◼ Cost: 2 blood, or 1 blood if the controller controls at least 1 other ready Anarch. ◼ Default target: None. Undirected action. ◼ Default stealth: +1 stealth. ◼ Effect: If the action is successful, the acting vampire is now of the Anarch sect.

Didn't you just answered on your question? 'another non-anarch vampire successfully performs the "become anarch" action' She cannot.

Aline's special checks the sect of the acting vampire at the resolution of the action. At the resolution of the become-Anarch, cardless action the vampire is an Anarch, who completed a successful action. She can use her special. Similarly, if an Anarch vampire equips with Write of Acceptance, at resolution that vampire is no longer an Anarch and she cannot use her special.

The key question and precedent setter here is if an action is considered performed by a vampire with the sect/clan belonging that they had at the beginning or the end of the action (or potentially both). This ruling would affect Aline Gädeke´s special in regards to both actions making a vampire Anarch and actions making a vampire non-Anarch Ankha´s decision and explanation will be interesting.

My bet is she can't. Non-anarchs perform this action and they become anarchs if this action is successful.

That is all true but maybe Aline does not care, because she says "after". The action ends, Aline takes a look and sees an Anarch that performed a successful action. Voila, now she can pay 1 blood to unlock, why not...

I'm with kschaefer and charmer on this one. The action is successful, the vampire is Anarch, I don't see why the fact that the vampire was not Anarch before the action would matter for Aline.

> Seraph's Second can be used to untap a vampire who has just successfully resolved an action to become Black Hand. [LSJ 20070701] > This ruling should apply here. Seraph's second is "Only usable when a non-Seraph Black Hand vampire is acting, after resolution." similar to Alines " after another Anarch performs a successful action", so same Ruling should apply. Seraph's Second Type Action Modifier Card Text Requires a ready Seraph. Only usable when a non-Seraph Black Hand vampire is acting, after resolution. Unlock the acting Black Hand vampire. A Seraph may play only one Seraph's Second each turn.

> inm8 wrote: > The key question and precedent setter here is if an action is considered performed by a vampire with the sect/clan belonging that they had at the beginning or the end of the action (or potentially both). > > This ruling would affect Aline Gädeke´s special in regards to both actions making a vampire Anarch and actions making a vampire non-Anarch > > Ankha´s decision and explanation will be interesting. > In my opinion the key point here is WHEN does Aline check the condition. The answer: after an action is successful. (obviously, it cant be any earlier) If "become anarch" action is successful, then the acting vampire is an anarch. Therefore an anarch has performed a successful action and the condition is met. It is still the same vampire even if it changes sects. My personal take is that Aline can unlock. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> charmer wrote: > That is all true but maybe Aline does not care, because she says "after". The action ends, Aline takes a look and sees an Anarch that performed a successful action. Voila, now she can pay 1 blood to unlock, why not... > I'm not a native English speaker, but I'd say that would be true if her text was: "(...) another Anarch you control performed a successful action." But since it is: "(...) another Anarch you control performs a successful action." I think it implies that the Vampire has to be an Anarch while performing an action for her text to trigger. Guess Ankha will tell...

> Hobbesgoblin wrote: > > > Seraph's Second can be used to untap a vampire who has just successfully resolved an action to become Black Hand. [LSJ 20070701] > > > This ruling should apply here. > Seraph's second is "Only usable when a non-Seraph Black Hand vampire is acting, after resolution." similar to Alines " after another Anarch performs a successful action", so same Ruling should apply. > > Seraph's Second > > Type > Action Modifier > Card Text > Requires a ready Seraph. Only usable when a non-Seraph Black Hand vampire is acting, after resolution. > Unlock the acting Black Hand vampire. A Seraph may play only one Seraph's Second each turn. > This is different since SS checks for the vampire being Seraph at the moment it is played. IMO AG text checks what she was while performing an action, not after. Her effect takes place after the action, but condition checks for the past state - that's my understanding

> KoRneeshon wrote: > This is different since SS checks for the vampire being Seraph at the moment it is played. IMO AG text checks what she was while performing an action, not after. > No it doesn't. It says "after another anarch .. performs". AFTER. The sentence refers to the past, and thus checks the condition after an action has been performed, not during it. But this returns to the issues in the rulebook where "resolves" and "performs" are used interchangeably, despite "performing" not been adequately defined. In the rulebook its never clearly said when exactly has an action been "performed". Is it after an action has been attempted, or is it after it has resolved? The rulings will be very different depending on definition. For those writing the rulebook passages, I recommend you pick a word and use it throughout when speaking of a specific thing. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > > > KoRneeshon wrote: > > This is different since SS checks for the vampire being Seraph at the moment it is played. IMO AG text checks what she was while performing an action, not after. > > > No it doesn't. It says "after another anarch .. performs". > AFTER. The sentence refers to the past, and thus checks the condition after an action has been performed, not during it. > > But this returns to the issues in the rulebook where "resolves" and "performs" are used interchangeably, despite "performing" not been adequately defined. In the rulebook its never clearly said when exactly has an action been "performed". Is it after an action has been attempted, or is it after it has resolved? The rulings will be very different depending on definition. For those writing the rulebook passages, I recommend you pick a word and use it throughout when speaking of a specific thing. > After a lenghty Discussion with Ankha, on a different topic, I agree, that the "after" here is the important, and defining part of the timing. It does not check until "after" the thing that follows hapend. The Rulebook defines that a "succesfull action" is an action that resolved without being blocked. This means "after another anarch performs a succesful action" must be "after resolution" because before resolution, the action can not be succesful, by defintion. This is actually how/why the new Lutz wording works the way it does. "after" excludes a contiuous check. (see other thread vs the old Lutz wording, wich checked continously)

> inm8 wrote: > Can Aline Gädeke use her special to unlock after another non-anarch vampire successfully performs the "become anarch" action? > Yes. The anarch condition is checked at the same time as the effect applies, that is after resolution. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director