Reprinting status and future

Hello everyone, I'm a long time player who dropped off after the game quit printing and cards got crazy expensive. When I learned that the game was reprinting through Drive Through Cards, I started to look into it but, have been frustrated by some inconsistancies and would like some clarification. 1. KoT reprints are no longer available at Drive Through Cards, I had to find some on Ebay. 2. Independent cards have been reprinted and I can even oder them in singles. KoT, HotB, 25th Anniversary, 5th Edition, only come in set bundles, can't order singles? 3. Other off shoot set like Anarchs, Black Hand and, Hunter set have not been reprinted, will they be reprinted? 4, What does the future of printing look like? It's kinda a mess right now but, better than nothing.

The Legacy singles on Drive Thru cards are slowly adding cards to what's available to order. Right now, they encompass pre 5th edition Setites, Giovanni, Lasombra, and Assamites, along with I think Pander,Tzimisce and are next. It's a slow Going process, and buying the bundles and precons are the primary (non eBay) way to get cards. But, look at it this way: The precons are viable, and only priced slightly higher than precons were 10 years ago once you adjust for inflation. They're actually playable, viable decks. Breaking down cost of certain singles compared to cost of the precons make it cheaper for precons (Nosferatu deck has 2×Preturnatural Strength ($8 each) 2×murder of crows ($8 each) a jack ($3ish) and a Warsaw Station ($3ish). So $22 for a precon where 6 cards are worth $38 ordered separately. Not to mention $2something creeping sabotage, $1 cards like Taste, Grapple, and deep song. Yes, the Malkavian deck isn't this cost effective. Most others are. But speaking of singles prices, my last point on the precons is.... Parity Shift, Deep Song, Eyes of Argus, and Perfect Paragon have been drastically reduced in second hand market price because they were reprinted in the bundles over the years. Deep song and EoA specifically went from $5-$8 each to around $1. That's huge for something you normally run 4+ of per deck. The print runs of the VEKN sets were available from kockstarters, and will be obtainable otherwise later. Also, remember PoD cards aren't available to order everywhere, so things are slowly creeping into being more obtainable. My biggest gripe about the immediate now state of card availability is that Freak Drive hasn't declined in price or been put on POD. Other cards I run out of, such as Smiling Jack, PB Montreal, Bowl of Convergence, and Wider View are all ran in multiples fewer than freak drive, so aren't as problematic. I JUST started buying cards again for the first time in several years. Future of printing is precons and bundles with new stuff each year, drive through singles coming in thematically linked chunks. What are you looking for? I wouldn't look for hunter reprints being a priority at all. Edit: I reread your questions. The reprints of HttB and KoT were always split between bundles for PoD. They have never been purchasable as singles on there.

Stikyard welcome aboard! In your last point you claim that "What does the future of printing look like? It's kinda a mess right now..." Kinda mess? How come it is a mess? Finnish Politics!

I just found it kinda confusing that some cards were only available in bundles, some in singles and KoT bundles weren't available at all on Drive Through cards. I am thankful for the reprinting effort and I have already purchased quite a bit. I was just looking for clarification.

I found mostly what I was looking for. You pointed out Freak Drive being an issue. I think I got 8 out of my 5th Edition bundle, very nice! I need more Tomb of Ramses and Dreams of the Sphinx.

Tomb of Ramses III was somewhat used in 1997 but I haven't seen anyone play it in ages... Finnish Politics!

That's weird. I thought that once singles and bundles were on DTC, they would forever be available on DTC. Prince of Porto

> GiftsUngiven wrote: > That's weird. I thought that once singles and bundles were on DTC, they would forever be available on DTC. > I thought they were, but I'm not seeing KoT on there. Humble Bundle promo prints, kickstarter runs, original Berlin Anthology were all in some way limited and announced as such. Not sure why KoT isn't listed on DTCards. If an option existed on DT Cards to cherry pick cards from bundles and decks, that would help with availability as well. Especially for cards like Taste, where they're used in pretty much all combat. Whenever V5 anarchs goes PoD, Bait and Switch would be huge on there. As of right now, you need to buy the Brujah deck for 2, and that's the only way to get it. So brick and mortar stores carrying product are going to have a hard time keeping that deck in, far as I can guess.....

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > If an option existed on DT Cards to cherry pick cards from bundles and decks, that would help with availability as well. Especially for cards like Taste, where they're used in pretty much all combat. Whenever V5 anarchs goes PoD, Bait and Switch would be huge on there. As of right now, you need to buy the Brujah deck for 2, and that's the only way to get it. So brick and mortar stores carrying product are going to have a hard time keeping that deck in, far as I can guess..... > That will never happen because it removes the incentive for purchasing bundles and pre-cons. I purchased the La Sombra precon because I wanted 1 Jake Washington, for example. Prince of Porto

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > > > GiftsUngiven wrote: > > That's weird. I thought that once singles and bundles were on DTC, they would forever be available on DTC. > > > I thought they were, but I'm not seeing KoT on there. > > Humble Bundle promo prints, kickstarter runs, original Berlin Anthology were all in some way limited and announced as such. Not sure why KoT isn't listed on DTCards. > We (Black Chantry) had to do some minor changes to the KoT files. They will return to Drivethrucards soon. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

The thing is, that option does exist for Independent and some Sabbat / Bloodlines cards. The bundles aren't bad if you also need the crypts and basic cards along with the couple of rare masters and such. Once you have bought a few bundles though, you are basically down to only needing multiples of singles you may only get one or two of. This does keep the aftermarket value up on cards that aren't available in mass or have yet to be reprintied. I wonder what the overall outlook on how they want to market this game moving forward?

I hope you could also use some of the other cards or you paid $22 for a Jake Washington. They have to be cheaper than that after market. I believe the community has created a Jake Washington for print at Drive Through Cards for thrity-five cents.

> stikyard wrote: > They have to be cheaper than that after market. I believe the community has created a Jake Washington for print at Drive Through Cards for thrity-five cents. > Do what you like in local/friendly games, but that print is not legal for any tournament even those that allow proxies.

Interesting, I had bought a lot of Final Nights back in the day and pulled a few Jakes outta there. I figured the created cards would be viable proxy if the card matched a legal card. Do you think they are trying to maintain rarity?

Tournament rules are very specific about what qualifies as a proxy and what does not. Community versions of legal cards from DTC are not legal proxies: 4.5. Proxy Cards As long as the game is not under production, the organizer of an event that is neither a National Championship nor a Continental Championship can choose to allow proxy cards in his or her event. For events where proxy cards are allowed, several points apply: there are no limit to the number of proxy cards a deck can have every proxy card must be a color-copy of the original card, on standard paper the quality of the print must allow the reading of the illustrator's name the organizer must mark the event as 'allowing proxy cards' on the VEKN calendar" As for VEKN-issued cards, proxy-cards would have to be inserted in an opaque sleeve (along the rest of the crypt and/or library), before a regular VTES card. Otherwise, the use of proxy cards is not permitted, unless a judge provides these cards. If a card becomes excessively worn through play or accidentally damaged in the current sanctioned tournament, or if the owner of the card must leave prior to the conclusion of a game, the judge may provide a proxy replacement card or (in the case of damaged or worn cards) require the player to sleeve all of his or her cards before play continues. When a judge creates a proxy for a player, it is included in the player's deck. The original card is kept close at hand during the game, if possible. When the proxy is in play, replace it with the original. When it returns to the player's deck/hand, swap it with the proxy. This replacement method helps ensure that the opponent is able to clearly see the intended card and to avoid confusion. The term "proxy" includes counterfeit cards or any card that is not a genuine game card. Counterfeiters will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

> stikyard wrote: > I figured the created cards would be viable proxy if the card matched a legal card. > No. That's why it's written on those cards "Not for legal play". > stikyard wrote: > Do you think they are trying to maintain rarity? > No, quite the contrary. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> stikyard wrote: > Interesting, I had bought a lot of Final Nights back in the day and pulled a few Jakes outta there. > > I figured the created cards would be viable proxy if the card matched a legal card. > > Do you think they are trying to maintain rarity? > I don't think rarity in the context it had in the days of CCP owning WW will ever be a "thing" again. Ben has been designing precons since HttB, and even then was very conscious of what cards were hard to obtain (prior to us going out of print). He goofed in that set by forgetting to submit an art request for spiritual intervention (cold aura went in instead), but ever since then he has been making sure to put out playable decks that include cards that are in high demand. Villein, deep song, eyes of argus, rego motum, and heroic might are all KoT cards that were $10 and up at one point, and all have been in multiple precons from Heirs to V5. Parity Shift, wider view, Second trad, and others have also been printed, and they run much lower on the singles market as a result. Jake was $20ish before we went OOP before, so $22 for Jake, monestary, and Papillion wouldn't be terrible, without the rest of the deck in 2010 pricing. It's a work in progress in some regards, but given how many $8 cards are now $2 or less cards, we are going in a positive direction.

> Ankha wrote: > > > stikyard wrote: > > I figured the created cards would be viable proxy if the card matched a legal card. > > > No. That's why it's written on those cards "Not for legal play". > > > stikyard wrote: > > Do you think they are trying to maintain rarity? > > > No, quite the contrary. > not being able to put an artist credit on the community cards, unless i photoshop it into the image itself, is vexing.

> self wrote: > > > Ankha wrote: > > > > > stikyard wrote: > > > I figured the created cards would be viable proxy if the card matched a legal card. > > > > > No. That's why it's written on those cards "Not for legal play". > > > > > stikyard wrote: > > > Do you think they are trying to maintain rarity? > > > > > No, quite the contrary. > > > not being able to put an artist credit on the community cards, unless i photoshop it into the image itself, is vexing. > No need for artist credit, as you are not allowed to use that art at all. I understand it is very hard for many people to understand, but its how it is. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

> Ashur wrote: > No need for artist credit, as you are not allowed to use that art at all. I understand it is very hard for many people to understand, but its how it is. > Yeah, I created a couple of custom cards and there was a step to make sure the art in the cards was not copyrighted, but there are plenty of fan-made cards using the original art. DTC mustn't enforce its policy. Prince of Porto

You can do all kinds of proxy versions for cards using regular card stock cardboard and whatever you feel like for your own private games, BUT... If you want to proxy cards in a tournament (that allows the use of proxy cards) there are few limitations in the tournament rules regarding the proxies: www.vekn.net/tournament-rules " * every proxy card must be a color-copy of the original card, on standard paper * the quality of the print must allow the reading of the illustrator's name " COLOUR COPY ON STANDARD PAPER (standard paper, you know the one that comes from your printer at home...) Finnish Politics!

> Ashur wrote: > No need for artist credit, as you are not allowed to use that art at all. I understand it is very hard for many people to understand, but its how it is. > so, if i pay an artist for a picture and i want to credit them on this custom V:TES card I made using the tool provided, i shouldn't be able to?

> self wrote: > > > Ashur wrote: > > No need for artist credit, as you are not allowed to use that art at all. I understand it is very hard for many people to understand, but its how it is. > > > so, if i pay an artist for a picture and i want to credit them on this custom V:TES card I made using the tool provided, i shouldn't be able to? > Of course you can, just watermark the name to the art in question. Trust in Jan Pieterzoon.

> Kilrauko wrote: > > > self wrote: > > > > > Ashur wrote: > > > No need for artist credit, as you are not allowed to use that art at all. I understand it is very hard for many people to understand, but its how it is. > > > > > > > > so, if i pay an artist for a picture and i want to credit them on this custom V:TES card I made using the tool provided, i shouldn't be able to? > > > Of course you can, just watermark the name to the art in question. > I feel like that misses the point? There really ought to be a field to credit the artist on the actual card.

> The print runs of the VEKN sets were available from kickstarters, and will be obtainable otherwise later. > Already avalibel here blackchantry.shop/collections/vampire-the-eternal-struggle-legacy-cards

So...... Let's talk about the New Blood decks out this month and thier impact on prices: Nos: Preturnatural Strength, 3 deep song, crows, Grapples, and a murder of crows. Tremere: MotS, 2×,Eyes of argus, ivory bow, and 2× rego motum Ventrue: 5×freak drive, daring the dawn, 4×deflection and 2 second trads. Now the other 2 aren't quite as impressive, but hear me out. All of these decks act as a compliment to the V5 precon of each clan. The torries give you one more of each prince, and ways to fine tune your vote to bleed ratio or add more TGB. Ventrue does the same with a few more princes, plus the new guy, and adds options to tune up your actions, freak drives, and more reaction options. Nosferatu is additive and let's you rethink your numbers on retainers or combat(damage output too) as well as reaction package. Tremere let's you tune up the toolbox, and lean harder into combat or reacting if needed (odd to include candle over Bowl, but it hasn't been printed since BH? and it gives an option to lean into an unblockable ousting action, so it works). The Malks even let you go political or more blocky. As an add on, it's functional. I just wish some obedience/madness network was in the v5 deck, that would really give options. So these will help make staples even cheaper, and will be a very important gateway deck for new players. My first precon was Cam Ed malks. You know, with AND ? So these are much MUCH better. Starting with a skinny deck for €10/$11, then getting the hang of it before dropping $22 more on the V5 precon and customizing a competitive deck from those 2 purchases without ordering singles or getting cards from existing players? That's huge. The only downside is possibly contesting with old players. That's a pretty interesting downside, all things considered.