Crypt's Sons versus Unleash Hell's Fury

Unleash Hell's Fury blocks an Anarch vampire with Crypt's Sons. Unleash Hell's Fury +1 stealth action. Requires an infernal vampire. Unique. dai Put this card in play. This card can attempt to block a Ⓓ action against you (or a card you control) and is considered a 9-capacity infernal vampire with +2 intercept during that attempt; if successful, the acting minion takes 1 unpreventable environmental aggravated damage and this card is burned. DAI As above, and unlock this vampire. Crypt's Sons Unique mortal with 3 life. Requires an anarch. Whenever this anarch is blocked, he or she may burn a life from the Sons to cancel combat and continue the action as if unblocked. The Sons inflict 1R damage each round of combat during normal strike resolution. Does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and go to torpor or does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and continue the action or does something else happen?

Per UHF text Anarch Vampire takes 1 aggravated damage and goes to torpor, UHF is burned. Crypt's Sons cancels combat, but with UHF combat never occurs. The only prerequisite for UHF trigger is to successfully block.

In corollary to the ruling about leaving torpor, you can cancel the block. The block will not be successful, so no damaged will be applied. Nothing prevents Unleash Hell's Fury from attempting to block again, so the reason to use Crypt's Sons effect is mostly moot.

> kschaefer wrote: > In corollary to the ruling about leaving torpor, you can cancel the block. The block will not be successful, so no damaged will be applied. > > Nothing prevents Unleash Hell's Fury from attempting to block again, so the reason to use Crypt's Sons effect is mostly moot. > Wouldn't it be locked as it blocked as a vampire? There is precedent on game objects keeping their gained attributes over the course of an action. In "normal" cases it does not tap as it doesn't matter (it goes away) but per blocking rules, it should.

I don't know if the UHF would be locked (actually I don't think it would) but it can block locked or not.

> kschaefer wrote: > In corollary to the ruling about leaving torpor, you can cancel the block. The block will not be successful, so no damaged will be applied. > > Nothing prevents Unleash Hell's Fury from attempting to block again, so the reason to use Crypt's Sons effect is mostly moot. > Can you please elaborate...not understanding what you are trying to say, about the ruling (which ruling?) and canceling the block? > Timo wrote: > I don't know if the UHF would be locked (actually I don't think it would) but it can block locked or not. > It does not lock (it is only considered a vampire during the actual block attempt and no further) and wouldn´t matter if it did. [LSJ 20100210] > LSJ wrote: > > - If Faceless Night sup' is played on an attempt to block with > > Unleash Hell's Fury, and the attempt is not successful, is the card > > tapped? > > Tapped, no. It's not a minion when the FN effect comes to tap the > minion. > But it wouldn't matter. The card doesn't need to be untapped in order > to attempt to block. >

If I'm not mistaken, Unleash deals its damage between when block is successful and before combat would start. I believe this is the same window where crypt's sons is used. And because acting player plays their effects and cards first, this might mean that the anarch can continue their action by burning life from sons... but nothing prevents unleash from blocking again since it doesn't lock. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> XZealot wrote: > Unleash Hell's Fury blocks an Anarch vampire with Crypt's Sons. > > Does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and go to torpor or does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and continue the action or does something else happen? > You must apply the delayed effects first: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79192-mirror-walk-and-slave?start=12#102578 So the Anarch takes 1 aggravated damage first. If they are in torpor, they cannot continue the action. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Ankha wrote: > > > XZealot wrote: > > Unleash Hell's Fury blocks an Anarch vampire with Crypt's Sons. > > > > Does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and go to torpor or does the Anarch take 1 aggravated damage and continue the action or does something else happen? > > > You must apply the delayed effects first: www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/79192-mirror-walk-and-slave?start=12#102578 > > So the Anarch takes 1 aggravated damage first. If they are in torpor, they cannot continue the action. > Was just working on replying as well and needed to reference the above ruling of delayed effect The abilities of both UHF and CS are triggered at the same time (i.e. when the block is successful) but the UHF effect is a delayed effect already in play and therefore has priority to be resolved before another effect (CS) can be actively played following the normal sequencing rule. UHF deals the damage before block resolution and never enters combat. CS cancels the combat part of the block resolution (that has two simultaneous consequences: the blocking minion is locked and enters combat with the acting minion). That means that even if the CS effect could be played it wouldn´t actually do anything against UHF as the Anarch is sent to torpor before block resolution and the block resolution is never reached because of it and furthermore the UHF is burned as part of the effect of it causing the damage to the acting minion which happens before the block resolution.

> Nac wrote: > > > kschaefer wrote: > > In corollary to the ruling about leaving torpor, you can cancel the block. The block will not be successful, so no damaged will be applied. > > > > Nothing prevents Unleash Hell's Fury from attempting to block again, so the reason to use Crypt's Sons effect is mostly moot. > > > Wouldn't it be locked as it blocked as a vampire? There is precedent on game objects keeping their gained attributes over the course of an action. In "normal" cases it does not tap as it doesn't matter (it goes away) but per blocking rules, it should. > Although I was incorrect about being able to continue the action, UHF's card state does not matter. Even if the card is locked, the card can still block as a 9-cap vampire: Can attempt to block even if locked. [LSJ 20100210](groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/HHJfsSbIEf0/6UxQ3UJT9aEJ)