Thoughts Betrayed and Hunger of Marduk

Does Thoughts Betrayed prevent Hunger of Marduk from being played?

Hunger of Marduk isnt a strike card, its a before range card that gives you the ability to play the lifestealing strike. Lasombra Archbishop of São José, SC, Brazil.

That's largely the question, what defines a strike card? Because Thoughts betrayed would not allow you to play Thrown gate to maneuver.

Cards worded “Strike: something something etc.” are strike cards. Thrown Gate is a good example of a strike card, furthermore the Thrown Gate can’t be used before the strike step in the current round where it is used to strike to gain the maneuver…the gained maneuver is an additional effect of the strike and optional to be used in the next round of combat if there is one.

> inm8 wrote: > Cards worded “Strike: something something etc.” are strike cards. > > Thrown Gate is a good example of a strike card, furthermore the Thrown Gate can’t be used before the strike step in the current round where it is used to strike to gain the maneuver…the gained maneuver is an additional effect of the strike and optional to be used in the next round of combat if there is one. > You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike: > > Rulebook wrote: > Combat > 2. Determine range > [...] > To use a maneuver from a strike card, the minion plays the strike card during this step instead of during the choose strike step. If a minion uses the maneuver from a strike card or a weapon, they are effectively choosing their strike as well. As such, they cannot use a second strike card or weapon to maneuver again in the same round. >

You are right Hobbesgoblin …my miss…forgot about it applying to strikes as well..(not just weapons equipment).

> Hobbesgoblin wrote: > You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike: > Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > > > Hobbesgoblin wrote: > > You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike: > > > Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. > I think you are correct. You may be able to play a manuever givign strike card in the maneuver step (and therefore also choose a strike effectively) but it is stil a strike card, and striek cards are prohibited under the effects of thoughts betrayed.

> Bloodartist wrote: > > > Hobbesgoblin wrote: > > You can use a Strike card that gives an maneuver, in the maneuver step to gain the maneuver, effecively already using a strike: > > > Note however, that if thoughts betrayed has been played, then you cannot gain a maneuver from a strike card, as that would require you to choose that strike. I think. > I think you are correct. You may be able to play a manuever givign strike card in the maneuver step (and therefore also choose a strike effectively) but it is stil a strike card, and striek cards are prohibited under the effects of thoughts betrayed. ‐‐ ‐ Thoughts betrayed: Only usable before range is determined on the first round. Opposing minion takes 1 additional damage in the first round of combat during normal strike resolution. Opposing minion cannot play any strike cards for the duration of this combat. so cards that say Thrown Gate Strike: 1R damage, with an optional maneuver. Strike: 2R damage, with an optional maneuver. Can't be used. You're already establishing before range is determined that a red card saying strike:do something is a no-go. So hunger of (m.o.d.o.k? Marmaduke? Whatever) is in the same camp as Gotsdam's sce special or Rabbats torpor special or more closely reflective, Menele adv merging and striking to steak 2 blood. The card Grant's the ability to use a specific strike for the duration of combat. You cannot use a strike cards manuever. You canNot play diversion @ for the manuever if opposing minion played TB. Similarly, Charismatic Aura or Evil Eye would have to be played when the manuever-granting strike carc is played to cancel it, not wait until its "striking". Cards granting "this minion may...." aren't a strike card.

my understanding of the rules is: All cards taht say "Strike:..." are Strike cards, those playing thouughts betrayed prohibits. Hunger of Marduk is a card that gives temporarily the option to choose a specific strike to the minion, but he is not obligated to, therefore it should not be a strike card. Charismatic Aura is a little bit more special: It is a strike card, as long as it is in hand (sicne it has a "Strike: ..." effect. And when played for this effect. But I think it is not a strike card, when played for the acncel effect, since it dooes not say "Strike:..." This should be similar to multidiscipline cards, wich have all possibel disciplines, as long as in hand, or any other play area, but are only the discipline it is played with when actually played. For example: Rebekah can discard a "note of the hound" for her special, but cannot cancel a "Hide the heart" when played with [val] with Hide the Mind. Rebekah nose of the hound Hide the Mind hide the heart

Hunger of Marduk is not a strike card. It gives the minion the ability to do special strikes this round, but it itself is not a strike card. Thus it would work under thoughts betrayed. Using a card to cancel a grapple is also not a strike. You're right. I cant remember any other weird examples right now. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Ankha can you please provide an official clarification/stand on the below, thanks. Hunger of Marduk 1) Hunger of Marduk is a pre-range card played for the effect that provides the vampire with a temporary ability in the current round that enables it to "strike, ranged: steal 1/2 blood" as an inherent ability just like the ability to make a hand strike....thus it is not a strike card. Correct? 2) Strike cards are the cards that provide a strike effect and are worded "Strike: ....". Correct? 3) Which cards does "cannot play any strike cards" actually cover? Is it: a) only strike cards (as per the above mentioned definition) played for/at the discipline level that provides the strike effect. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura can be played at inferior and cards like Diversion can be played at and/or . b) any card having the ability to provide a strike effect as a strike card (as per the above mentioned definition) regardless of what effect it is played for. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura and Diversion cannot be played at all. 4) Would an alternative wording of the card text of Thoughts Betrayed be clearer ex. "Opposing minion cannot play cards for strike effects during this combat" ? Thoughts Betrayed Charismatic Aura Diversion Further expanding on the questions of the definition of which cards are covered.... 5) The card text "discard a card requiring Auspex " is covered by cards that have at least one effect that requires at least Auspex and is not limited to cards with an effect which only require auspex. Meaning Charismatic Aura can be discarded to get the +2 votes. Correct? Rebekah 6) The card text "cancel a combat card that requires Auspex as it is played" is playable against cards that are played for an effect that at least requires auspex and is not limited to cards that are played for an effect which only requires auspex. Meaning it could be used to cancel Charismatic Aura as it is played. Correct? Hide the Mind

a) you can play inferior charismatic aura You can cancel charismatic aura with hide the mind. You can't cancel OBE Anesthetic Touch. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

> Lech wrote: > a) you can play inferior charismatic aura > I agree and is how I interpret it as well, basically saying that cards are defined when played/used by the effect they are played/used for at the moment of playing/using the cards. > Lech wrote: > You can cancel charismatic aura with hide the mind. You can't cancel OBE Anesthetic Touch. > This is as well aligned with my interpretation of how it is to be handled, it is clear i think that when Anesthetic Touch is played at or it doesn´t fit with "requires Auspex as it is played" Still would like to get an official ruling/stand.

> inm8 wrote: > Ankha can you please provide an official clarification/stand on the below, thanks. > > 1) Hunger of Marduk is a pre-range card played for the effect that provides the vampire with a temporary ability in the current round that enables it to "strike, ranged: steal 1/2 blood" as an inherent ability just like the ability to make a hand strike....thus it is not a strike card. Correct? > Strike cards are combat cards that use the "Strike: X", "Cost to strike: X" pattern (not "This vampire can strike: X"), and that are played in the Choose strike step, or Determine Range step if they provide an optional maneuver. For instance, Majesty ("Strike: combat ends") and Flames of the Netherworld ("Burn 1 blood to strike: 1R aggravated damage.") are strike cards. Aid from Bats is also a strike cards ("Strike: 1R damage, with 1 optional maneuver"). .44 Magnum or Hunger of Marduk are not strike cards. > inm8 wrote: > 2) Strike cards are the cards that provide a strike effect and are worded "Strike: ....". Correct? > Correct. > > inm8 wrote: > 3) Which cards does "cannot play any strike cards" actually cover? Is it: > a) only strike cards (as per the above mentioned definition) played for/at the discipline level that provides the strike effect. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura can be played at inferior and cards like Diversion can be played at and/or > Sure. Those cards do not provide a strike when used with those Disciplines. > > inm8 wrote: > b) any card having the ability to provide a strike effect as a strike card (as per the above mentioned definition) regardless of what effect it is played for. Meaning that cards like Charismatic Aura and Diversion cannot be played at all. > No. > > inm8 wrote: > 4) Would an alternative wording of the card text of Thoughts Betrayed be clearer ex. "Opposing minion cannot play cards for strike effects during this combat" ? > It does not seem clearer to me. > > inm8 wrote: > Further expanding on the questions of the definition of which cards are covered.... > > 5) The card text "discard a card requiring Auspex" is covered by cards that have at least one effect that requires at least Auspex and is not limited to cards with an effect which only require auspex. Meaning Charismatic Aura can be discarded to get the +2 votes. Correct? > Correct. You have to take into account all the Disciplines listed in the left marble bar for cards in hand. > > inm8 wrote: > 6) The card text "cancel a combat card that requires Auspex as it is played" is playable against cards that are played for an effect that at least requires auspex and is not limited to cards that are played for an effect which only requires auspex. Meaning it could be used to cancel Charismatic Aura as it is played. Correct? > Since the requirement to play the card included Auspex, it's enough to satisfy the condition. PS: you can use the shortcut to display Discipline icons. Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Just a quick question regarding Hunger of Marduk. Is the strike it grants only usable once per round, ie, does this fall under "during X do y" ruling? Steve Harris NC, Australia

> steveharris wrote: > Just a quick question regarding Hunger of Marduk. Is the strike it grants only usable once per round, ie, does this fall under "during X do y" ruling? > > Steve Harris > NC, Australia > Why would it fall under the "during x do y" rule if this pattern is not used? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director