I don´t know if somebody noticed, but the decklist and new cards for the Banu Haqim preconstructed deck has been posted at Blackchantry.com. What do you think about it?
The deck:Crypt (12 cards)
1 Asmin Kobane
1 Bijou
1 Farah Sarroub
1 Greg Mazouni
1 Kalinda
1 Kasim Bayar
2 Kassandra Tassaki
1 Khadija Al-Kindi
1 Nayarana
2 WarmaksanLibrary (77 cards)
4 Haqim’s Law: Retribution
1 Market Square
1 Tension in the Ranks
1 Underworld Hunting Ground
4 Villein1 Biothaumaturgic Experiment
2 Fleetness
4 Hunter’s Mark
4 Priority Contract
1 Rutor’s Hand2 Parity Shift1 Mr. Winthrop2 Resist Earth’s Grasp
6 Swallowed by the Night2 Blood Rage
5 Flash
10 Hunger of Marduk
4 Pursuit
4 Quickness (NOTE CHANGE)
2 Rego Motum
2 Soul Burn
2 Walk of Flame4 On the Qui Vive
8 Second Tradition: Domain
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Haqim's law: retribution is another new, strong, clan-specific card. I applaud this sort of card design. It basically looks to create a new deck archetype, which I really like. This is what VTES needs to keep the game moving forward.
Its very useful that BH now have a way to cycle their combat cards without getting into combat. Also cycle a combat card during bleed hoping to hit another bleed card..
Hunter's mark is a card that may find its way into other decks than BH... Made me go check what did Thaumaturgy have in the "can't be used during first round" department..
Hunger of marduk is practically better than taste of vitae for rush decks that can play it, since it can't be avoided, unlike taste (which can be avoided by preventing the damage).
However, Banu are still lacking in damage prevention, which is probably the biggest reason why they won't become "too" strong. But regardless gotta give big thumbs up for the designers and playtesters.
ps. You are missing some line breaks there..
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
Haqim Law : Retribution boost any Assamites based combat deck in order to make more than 1 VP in a game. Great cards.
I like the set of little untitled Vampire, they fit good in order to go anarch and play "Diversion" and "Bollix".
Dunno what we can do with that Justicar. He can cycle politics cards , but dunno if it's a good investment for a justicar.
Haquim Law is fine.
Everything else are bad - there are still no reasonable point in combining :cel with :obf (and :obf with :tau), no valid defence in assamite discipline spread and no point in using melee weapons.
Small princes can be combined with other such dorks from and to make some alternative crypt for a royalty deck spamming parity shifts.
NC Russia
Flavio-7
Karen-7
Farah-7
kassandra-6
Vasily-6
Without thinking about banu haquim alone, there are now 5 princes with in group 5-6 under 8 capacity.
Second trad guns has a fresh faced support cast. Also, access to MotS and Rego Motus for the Assamites.
My only concerns are that the Justicar lacks and there should be a vampire (justicar woulda made sense) who allows use of equal to level of so the ranged agg, black sunrise, loss, and all the last round of new cards aren't a loss. It's too clunky to errata the most recent cards to work as for the clan.
It's cool, but anytime midcap fodder for a proven archetype is my immediate thought, I'm not feeling the setup otherwise.
Now, priority contract bloat, that 1 pool retainer, and I guess focus the blood are cool. But Dam the Hearts river and sanguine entrapment would have made the whole thing much cooler. It would have made a 44 do 3 each strike, cost a blood for them to strike, and shutdown sce for a second trad guns deck.
the tradeoff is focus the blood=2 card combo for a free rego Motus or blur. And the math on the blur comes out much better with DthR anyway.
I dig the new cards, but being cut off from the from TU dampens my excitement for Banu Haquim
thaum.
The possible combo Hunger of Marduk + Lightning Reflexes seems a little unbalanced imho. Moreover, in comparison, the new card absolutely trashes Theft of Vitae.
> Miller wrote:
> The possible combo Hunger of Marduk + Lightning Reflexes seems a little unbalanced imho. Moreover, in comparison, the new card absolutely trashes Theft of Vitae.
>
It's combo that thrashes any non-combatant vampire, but then you can do it with guns, + Taste, so meh.
Hunger is better than Theft only when you have additional strikes, otherwise it's worse, so actually I think clan requirement for it is stupid.
NC Russia
The + clan requirement keeps one archetype in check to my knowledge, that Cory Busch-Kendal won with once.
so, probably redundant.
Every Assamite before this set I can think of that had had
Yitzhak (sp?) Was the only vamp with both at superior that wasn't a 9 or 10 cap.
I think
should be adapted to letter to letter adaptations of staples. I'm a HUGE fan of Foul Blood, but I'm talking about the important stuff like Loss, Taste of Death, and black sunrise. Those staying with the Banu into this transition is pretty important, bit I'd add the stipulation that such cards would only be playable as printed according to the copy in the deck, so as not to give extra advantage as much as make the new grouping have what they now lack.
ministry dint hurt for and malks got freaking so nobody else has this hole from thier missing support/utility discipline. has ALWAYS been paired with things that can bleed, so Loss is a consolation prize. Black sunrise and ToD are important to the flavor of the banu-mites, since they're supposed to be dangerous.
My 2 cents, of course.
> It's combo that thrashes any non-combatant vampire, but then you can do it with guns, + Taste, so meh.
>
> Hunger is better than Theft only when you have additional strikes, otherwise it's worse, so actually I think clan requirement for it is stupid.
>
Guns + Cel + Taste is not as nearly as effective against damage prevention or Animalism combat (e.g. Drawing Out the Beast, Terror Frenzy).
Besides the clan requirement, could you explain how exactly is Hunger of Marduk worse than Theft of Vitae? It seems to me quite the opposite, since it is not a strike and cannot be denied by cards like Thoughts Betrayed, for instance.
Hunger of marduk has to be played before range, telegraphing your intentions.
This is more relevant in the Guns+taste Case, as, when you plan on gunning and tasting, if you get hit by a S:CE, you simply don't taste, while the hunger of marduk already has to be played at that time.
In comparison to taste, the difference is primarily, that in the case of not being the acitng minion, taste is better, as you announce your strike last.
> Hobbesgoblin wrote:
>
> Hunger of marduk has to be played before range, telegraphing your intentions.
>
Can you specify the scenario where this is relevant?
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
Without having to go in some corner cases scenario :
I block, I play hunger of Marduk, the opposing play S:CE
vs
I block, I don't play anything until my opponent chose his strike and if it is S:CE I chose either to cycle my card I want to be rid of or I keep my ressource in my hand
I am in combat, I play Hunger of Marduk, the opposing play Immortal Grapple before strike and my card already played is useless
vs
I am in combat, the opposing play immortal grapple, I keep my ressources in my Hand to be used later.
Now could you specify the scenario where you would rather have a Hunger of Marduk vs a Theft of Vitae (outside of playing additional strikes).
(Yes, there is Thought Betrayed which I saw played a couple of times in nearly 20 years of playing VtES and Evil Eye which see more play but I would say about at least 95% less than S:CE)
> Timo wrote:
> Now could you specify the scenario where you would rather have a Hunger of Marduk vs a Theft of Vitae (outside of playing additional strikes).
>
> (Yes, there is Thought Betrayed which I saw played a couple of times in nearly 20 years of playing VtES and Evil Eye which see more play but I would say about at least 95% less than S:CE)
>
To play Devils Advocate (as I am in general on your side, that Hunger of Marduk has a very special niche in where it edges out over theft of vitae, wich is Additinal strikes):
Charismatic Aura, Hall of Mirrors, the Jones, Supernatural resistance are all cards that cancel strike cards. albeit less strongly then evil eye. (An I only ever saw Evil eye and Charismatic Aura see any play)
Well, yes, those cards exist.
Anad in the case of Charismatic Aura, When I saw this card played the vampires playing it had it at superior and so in this case it would be moot ^^
The thing make me have a "tiny " rant , is that the Banu are {again} the clan with lesser tools.
The best thing we can do we Thaumaturgy is the new rush and Magic of the smith. [for the Heart and maybe a Sniper rifle koz of the 2nd tradition].
When i see the others pre constructed decks gonna be release, really i feel sad for the Banu Haqim.
Kassims power are so ... weird for a justicar. And why a 9 cap ? The Banu don't deserve the same weapon as the other Camarilla clan ?
I heard the other arguments that " it's a new release , wait the other cards " , "Quietus was bad in combat "
I'm agree about BCP should design the same lore for the V5 vtes as the V5 RPG.
But why Ministry , Brujah and later for sure Gangrel got better design and card AGAIN in the game.
i 'dont get it.
Do we have to wait other extension release or kickstarter to have some new ritual ? or new Banu cards ?
For the moment the only thing i see with this clan is an Anarch combat deck .
And some pshift deck.
Maybe rush/ S&B deck with perfect clarity ?
And the retribution will finally help Assamites, with Quietus, combat to make more GW.
for the other things , i' m disapointed.
It's my personal point of view.
For starters, let me say that I originally misread hunger of marduk... I thought it was just theft of 2 in prerange (kind of like outside the hourglass). That would've been cool. I still consider it to be the better card than theft, although that's because I place much lesser value to hiding information than most people here. For me, cards are not "wasted", but rather "cycled". My decks tend to be proactive and feature good cardflow.
As for the justicar, I agree that this ability is weak. In general putting politically-aligned abilities on a combat vampire is weird. Its never been a thing... (I remember like one other vampire that had similar ability and it has never done much anything).
Im also not a huge fan of two random parity shifts in the deck. Chances of these going through are negligible, because these days random titles for vote defense is very common. We just had a discussion about this on the Finnish discord.
I believe this justicar would function best in a stealth voter deck with other clans, where his ability would be supplementary. NOT this Banu Haqim deck.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
> Nuckalavee wrote:
> Kassims power are so ... weird for a justicar. And why a 9 cap ? The Banu don't deserve the same weapon as the other Camarilla clan ?
>
You mean he should have been older?
"My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."
Two things,
new "theft" like combat for Banu Hakim is going to be used with a lot of additional strikes in the same deck so discussing it without taking extra strikes into consideration is kind of strange.
So, with additional strikes, this new "theft" is soo much better.
Regarding, usefullness of new Justicar, think: new theft + additionall strikes + anathema = BUM
I would add at least few of those (anathema) to new assamites and in case there is no possibility to pass those, Kasim can cycle them for a good effect.
> tksolway wrote:
> Comparing this to guns though…
>
> Guns are in play, your intentions are pretty well telegraphed
>
Yes, but you do not need to expend any further recources, before the opposing minions chooses their strike, that is the big difference here. You can play purely reactive, when the battle is going your way.
> Hobbesgoblin wrote:
> Yes, but you do not need to expend any further recources, before the opposing minions chooses their strike, that is the big difference here. You can play purely reactive, when the battle is going your way.
>
That's why you have to pay pool for guns, they are permanent. If you're worried about card efficiency, and wasting too many combat cards, compare expending one of the new card with three thefts after a blur. Let alone the opportunity cost of having three thefts in hand to use.
Crypt has enough votes to play couple Anathemas in the deck. Put Anathema on whatever vampire you want to remove , play new cel/tha rush to avoid combat ends , hunger + additional strikes to drain vamp = it burns with anathema , get bunch of pool.
So I'm slowly crawling out of torpor and am trying to make sense of everything - a stupid question that probably has an answer in some very obvious place but I wasn't able to find it: Can Banu Haqim use Assamite clan cards and vice versa?
> Lemminkäinen wrote:
> So I'm slowly crawling out of torpor and am trying to make sense of everything - a stupid question that probably has an answer in some very obvious place but I wasn't able to find it: Can Banu Haqim use Assamite clan cards and vice versa?
>
Banu Haqim and Assamites are considered the same clan for purposes of cards.
Followers of Set and the Ministry are considered the same clan for purposes of cards.
You can use their clan cards interchangeably.
The biggest thing to note about the V5 vampires is their new clan discipline spreads:
Banu Haqim: thaumaturgy, obfuscate, celerity
Ministry: protean, presence, obfuscate
Ravnos: Animalism, obfuscate, presence
Salubri: Auspex, dominate, fortitude
Tzimisce: Animalism, dominate, protean.
Lasombra: Dominate, Oblivion, potence.
Basically the RPG is doing away with clan-specific disciplines. Now those disciplines are becoming a combo of two other disciplines, with the exception of Oblivion which replaces obtenebration I think. (Hecate will have oblivion also afaik) I believe in VTES obtenebration and oblivion are the same discipline, but don't quote me on that.
Another thing to note is how dominate got a whole lot more common...
The official card list has updated text on appropriate cards I believe.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
> Banu Haqim and Assamites are considered the same clan for purposes of cards. Followers of Set and the Ministry are considered the same clan for purposes of cards.
>
I see people are saying that. I assume it's an interpretation of some interview. However is there any official ruling saying that. Is this updated in the rulebook.
> Tadori wrote:
>
> > Banu Haqim and Assamites are considered the same clan for purposes of cards. Followers of Set and the Ministry are considered the same clan for purposes of cards.
> >
> I see people are saying that. I assume it's an interpretation of some interview. However is there any official ruling saying that. Is this updated in the rulebook.
>
www.blackchantry.com/2020/12/25/rtr-30-11-2020/
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > Tadori wrote:
> >
> > > Banu Haqim and Assamites are considered the same clan for purposes of cards. Followers of Set and the Ministry are considered the same clan for purposes of cards.
> > >
> > I see people are saying that. I assume it's an interpretation of some interview. However is there any official ruling saying that. Is this updated in the rulebook.
> >
> www.blackchantry.com/2020/12/25/rtr-30-11-2020/
>
Thank you Ankha
I check VEKN site and this rule is not added to the rulebook here or to the DPF version you can download. I highly recommend to update this because it can be confusing to new players.
> Tadori wrote:
> I check VEKN site and this rule is not added to the rulebook here or to the DPF version you can download. I highly recommend to update this because it can be confusing to new players.
>
I'd guess it is not YET added since at the moment there is no need to do so.
BUT as the new decks are released (or are about to be) the rulebook will be updated.
(Yeah, why not update already now since the dekcs/clans are ALREADY hyped at this very moment?)
Finnish Politics!
> Ashur wrote:
>
> > Nuckalavee wrote:
> > Kassims power are so ... weird for a justicar. And why a 9 cap ? The Banu don't deserve the same weapon as the other Camarilla clan ?
> >
> You mean he should have been older?
>
Yes a 10 cap and a better power.
Oh my..
It's got votes, it's got stealth and it's got cycling for cards that don't fit your plan at the time while also boosting your ability in the OTHER two strategies in the game. Huh.
There's plenty here to build on, if not a straightforward deck.
> Im also not a huge fan of two random parity shifts in the deck. Chances of these going through are negligible, because these days random titles for vote defense is very common. We just had a discussion about this on the Finnish discord.
>
Tell me more of this Finnish discord, if you would.