Sargon Wastes a Minute of Our Time

I've been playing VTES for a couple years now, and I was pleased last week because I finally managed to build a "creative" deck that felt competitive. It won a 4p, running out of cards in the process (!), and I've been iterating on it since then. I didn't expect to see another Inside Dirt deck win a tournament at the same time, but figured if the card is being taken seriously now, I could try posting my own deck here. > > Deck Name: Sargon Wastes a Minute of Our Time > Author: NoSoup4you > Description: > > Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=1 max=5 avg=3.875) > ================== > 1x Anarch Convert 1 -none- Caitiff:ANY > 1x Josef 4 ani obf obt Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 1x Olivia 5 vic OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 4x Sargon 5 cel dai obf pre Baali:2 > 2x Shannon Price, the Whisperer 3 ani obf Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 1x Tock 4 obf pot pre Nosferatu antitribu:3 > 1x Agatha 4 obf POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 1x Cicatriz 5 ani obf pot Nosferatu antitribu:2 > > Library: 77 cards > > Master (22 cards) > ================== > 1x Information Highway > 5x Maleficia > 2x Archon Investigation > 1x Nosferatu Kingdom > 3x Obfuscate > 1x Powerbase: Montreal > 1x Ruins of Charizel > 1x Shanty Town Hunting Ground > 2x Wider View > 2x Blood Doll > 1x Coven, The > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > > Action (32 cards) > ================== > 6x Epiphany > 1x Go Anarch > 12x Inside Dirt > 10x Barrenness > 1x Unleash Hell's Fury > 1x Clan Impersonation > 1x Contagion > > Action Modifier (17 cards) > ================== > 9x Forgotten Labyrinth > 8x Lost in Crowds > > Ally (1 cards) > ================== > 1x Veneficti > > Equipment (5 cards) > ================== > 1x Heart of Nizchetus > 1x Kaymakli Fragment > 2x Leather Jacket > 1x Sargon Fragment, The > This has a couple minor refinements from the version I played at our last meeting here, but the actions and modifiers remain the same. The thing I've waffled on the most is the blood and pool gain. How do you intend to oust? Inside Dirt two or three times per turn. How do you intend to keep from being ousted? Going forward fast, Barrenness and/or Inside Dirt backwards. Noncommital defense overall, just hoping to burn a vampire or two and block with Sargon once in awhile. What do you want your ready region to look like? Sargon and three !nos. What do you want your average turn to look like? Two or three Sargon actions, two or three Inside Dirts. What's your metagame like? How do your opponents play? Every deck type shows up, but not a lot of the top ones - no one plays Malk 94, MMPA, speed Legionnaires etc, either out of boredom or politeness. There are some weird pet decks that get played a lot, like Horsehoes+Touch of Pain or Zizi Bauble. What problems have you observed with the deck in play? It ran out of cards quickly, so I'm trying Sargon Fragment as a bit of recursion. Blood could get low with all the Forgotten Labyrinth, but inferior obf necessitates running them I think. Rush combat is a bit worrying. The group 2 crypt is really bad for obfuscate weenies. I've also built a midcap version: > > Deck Name: Sargon Midcap > Author: > Description: > > Crypt (12 cards; Capacity min=1 max=6 avg=4.571429) > ================== > 1x Anarch Convert 1 -none- Caitiff:ANY > 1x Ingram Frizer 6 ani pot AUS OBF Nosferatu antitribu:3 > 2x Olivia 5 vic OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 1x Ox, Viceroy of the Hollows 6 ANI OBF POT Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 4x Sargon 5 cel dai obf pre Baali:2 > 1x Shannon Price, the Whisperer 3 ani obf Nosferatu antitribu:2 > 2x Christanius Lionel, The Mad Chronicler6 pot ANI OBF Nosferatu antitribu:2 > > Library: 77 cards > > Master (22 cards) > ================== > 1x Information Highway > 5x Maleficia > 2x Archon Investigation > 1x Nosferatu Kingdom > 2x Perfectionist > 1x Powerbase: Montreal > 1x Ruins of Charizel > 1x Shanty Town Hunting Ground > 4x Villein > 2x Wider View > 2x Dreams of the Sphinx > > Action (32 cards) > ================== > 6x Epiphany > 1x Go Anarch > 12x Inside Dirt > 10x Barrenness > 1x Unleash Hell's Fury > 1x Clan Impersonation > 1x Contagion > > Action Modifier (14 cards) > ================== > 7x Forgotten Labyrinth > 7x Lost in Crowds > > Action Modifier/Combat (4 cards) > ================== > 4x Swallowed by the Night > > Ally (1 cards) > ================== > 1x Veneficti > > Equipment (4 cards) > ================== > 1x Heart of Nizchetus > 1x Kaymakli Fragment > 1x Leather Jacket > 1x Sargon Fragment, The > This might be better, but I haven't played it yet. You free up master slots and get something to do in combat, in exchange for a slow start. I'm mainly wondering whether to pursue it with the oversized weenies or the midcaps. Also thinking about including 2-4 Evil Eye, though it's easy to start going down a bad path with all the things that "could" be in here. I'm guessing the Night Moves version is going to be better than this deck, but I find Sargon's bullshit actions funny.

You have a lot of Masters, Some of which you may not care about at various points in the game. You also have Sargon as a star. Consider Path of the Void for him. He's never going to bleed, won't be affected by the Path's drawback and might even be able to shed extra Masters in the unlock phase. The perma-stealth would be useful and occasionally hitting an empty vampire for 1 damage could be good.

Consider also the variant with Enticement which is easier to play (you can even play Serpentis Discipline cards on Sargon) but lacks the ability to slow down the predator. www.vekn.fr/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=6041&p=69413#p69412 (hmm, I wrote this 17 years ago... how time flies) Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

You think Charizel is redundant? I don't know if it will push people out of archon range or goad them into it.

It costs nothing and might gain you a few pool. IMO it's a neat inclusion - I wouldn't worry too much about AI. Also, it's a good counter against Inside Dirt decks ;- )

> NoSoup4you wrote: > You think Charizel is redundant? I don't know if it will push people out of archon range or goad them into it. > Generally I consider path of evil revelations to be superior to Charizel, but if you only have one infernal vampire the issue is not as clear. I would suggest try games with both. At any rate, I recommend running some vessels. They may allow you to unlock your infernal star when you are at 1 pool. (and if you had other infernals and path, all the others too). A great many games have been decided by making the winning play at 1 pool. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Newest version I often got 1 or 2 VPs with the original attempt, but I've been gradually transitioning towards playing a little defense. I cut some of the "dead end" actions for Sargon, hopefully leaving him unlocked most turns except for oust attempts. For example, it probably wasn't worth effectively paying 3 pool for Hell's Fury, or 2 pool to get and start using Kaymakli. Veneficti is still awesome. Clan Impersonation could go, but the option of playing Dirt and getting the edge in the same action later is powerful. Main line of (still casual) defense will be Evil Eye with occasional blocking, and Archon as a speedbump. The downside is that there's no good answer to bumped bleeds for 3. Barrenness backwards is still solid, though hard to choose the right vampire sometimes. Maybe better to hit full vampires instead of trying too hard to build up for the superior. I threw in a couple wakes too as they're easily cycled, but I'm still worried about diluting the unlock+dirt+stealth combos. Morpheus would be logical, but Qui Vive lets you Evil Eye and cycles better. The hard part of playing the deck is still having the wisdom to "waste" an Inside Dirt on something besides 3 pool. I've dug myself into a malk 94 playstyle with the deck, and need to convince everyone that it can do other things now. I actually have a lot of freedom in who I target with things, but people here aren't big on deals. Still wondering: smaller crypt with inferior obf, or midcap version? I'm not getting blocked that often. Also considering a second Shannon here instead of Ox, as 5+3 makes for a good opening crypt.

Ok, looking at the deck with a bit more thought: Can you explain what is the point of epiphany without any advanced vampires in the crypt? Barrenness is strange... I never thought the card does much anything. But I guess it might be a local meta thing, if you have lot of weenies behind you often? I feel like more reliable defense would be more minions with auspex or dominate and bleed bounce.. Only 2 on the qui vive also seems low. You could also consider the option of infernal servitor. I applaud the concept of Sargon + inside dirt though. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

> Bloodartist wrote: > Ok, looking at the deck with a bit more thought: > > Can you explain what is the point of epiphany without any advanced vampires in the crypt? > It's a "free" action that unlocks the acting vampire. Sargon would give you the Edge by playing it (plus, it's at +2 stealth). Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

After a few plays, the more "well rounded" midcap one hasn't performed that well. Evil Eye as your main defense means you're tempted to let cardless bleeds through, and the game is almost unwinnable if you aren't able to get out three vampires. I will probably go back to the smaller crypt relying more on Forgotten Labyrinth. On the other hand, I've made some refinements since then that will still be helpful.

> NoSoup4you wrote: > After a few plays, the more "well rounded" midcap one hasn't performed that well. Evil Eye as your main defense means you're tempted to let cardless bleeds through, and the game is almost unwinnable if you aren't able to get out three vampires. I will probably go back to the smaller crypt relying more on Forgotten Labyrinth. On the other hand, I've made some refinements since then that will still be helpful. > If you let a lot of cardless bleeds through, then Charizel is for sure good. Also consider Aranthebes, the immortal. Also, maybe masters that speed up the victory without bleeding such as antediluvian awakening might help. If you don't mind bleeding, consider multiple infernal servitors. ps. I didnt realize epiphany was a +2 stealth action. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

Why don't you play any Protected resources? Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy

It's so bad, even in a deck that is 100% perfect for it, it's still unplayable.

I disagree, protected resources is perfectly playable. And this would be a good deck for it. Smoking craters tell no tales. —Tex talks Battletech

I could mess with it some more, but the pool cost really kills it imo. It can start generating value after ~2 bleeds from a particular kind of deck, but otherwise you might be paying 2 pool and a master slot for nothing. I felt a lot better about just packing multiple Archon Investigation as a speed bump I don't have to pay for.

I’d try to get at least a couple copies of the Kaymakli Fragment in there. When you don’t have superior Maleficia yet or no copy of Evil Eye in hand, then what better action for Sargon to do to get the edge than putting 3 on a vampire in your uncontrolled region, even with it leaving him locked?

I used to run Sargon with Saqqaf and Enticement, although I haven't tried it since the new Infernal disciplines came out. Time to start investigating .