hello, quite new player here.
i am learning with a group of friends the game.
i ve met certain situations im not "fine" with, so i need some clarifications:
1)
player A bleed
player B try to block
player A stealth
player B uses another vampire (one that was not used to try to block) to bounce the bleed.
is it correct?
2)
player A bleed
player B lock sphynx to draw to cards and decide how to react
3)
player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
4)combat situation: reacting matusalah can decide to strike after acting one choose his strike (not wasting strikes against combat ends) but both strike, then , act at the same time. is it correct?
thanks in advance.
> Shukran wrote:
> hello, quite new player here.
>
> i am learning with a group of friends the game.
>
> i ve met certain situations im not "fine" with, so i need some clarifications:
>
Hi, and welcome !
> Shukran wrote:
> 1)
> player A bleed
> player B try to block
> player A stealth
> player B uses another vampire (one that was not used to try to block) to bounce the bleed.
>
B can bounce the bleed with the same vampire.
The exact (simplified) sequence is:
Minion A bleeds.
Minion B tries to block.
Minion A adds stealth
Player B decides not to block with any minion.
Minion A can play an action modifier to increase the bleed or not.
Minion B (or another minion controlled by B) can play a bounce "after blocks are declined".
Name: Deflection
Cardtype: Reaction
Cost: 1 blood
Discipline: Dominate
Only usable if a minion is bleeding you, after blocks are declined.
[dom] Lock this reacting vampire. Change the target of the bleed to another Methuselah other than the acting minion's controller (that Methuselah can attempt to block).
[DOM] As above, but do not lock this vampire.
> Shukran wrote:
> 2)
> player A bleed
> player B lock sphynx to draw to cards and decide how to react
>
Correct. After A declares a bleed, and passes the impulse to the defending Methuselah (B), B can use the impulse to draw 2 cards with the Dreams.
Then the impulse goes back to A who can play effects. Let's say A has no effect to use right now, B then gets the impulse back to perform block attempts.
> Shukran wrote:
> 3)
> player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
>
It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.
See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing
> Shukran wrote:
> 4)combat situation: reacting matusalah can decide to strike after acting one choose his strike (not wasting strikes against combat ends) but both strike, then , act at the same time. is it correct?
>
Correct. A (acting) chooses his/her strike first, then B (reacting/defending) chooses his/her strike.
Then both strikes resolve simulteanously.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > Shukran wrote:
> > 3)
> > player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
> >
> It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.
>
> See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing
>
Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.
Enkil Cog
Cardtype: Action Modifier
Unique. Requires a vampire with capacity 10 or more. Only usable after resolution of a successful bleed against your prey.
Put this card on this vampire. This vampire gets +1 bleed. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire can lock this card to take an action.
Thanks a lot.
I don't get , then, what " declining" really means. I thought that attempting to block would negate the decline.
For the rest examples i learnt a lot.
unfortunately because there is no clear flowchart in the rulebook whole sequence of blocking can be confusing for new players. I will try to explain it.
1 There is an action announced be player A
Now player B can play reaction cards that will allow him to block.
2. Then there is an intent to block by player B. In this step he can also resign from any attempt to block. (then you go to point 4)
Player A and B can play minion card to resolve success of the block
3. Now you check if the Block was successful or not. In this step if block is successful players can play cards "before block resolution" like Change of target(go to point 5) and if block failed Player B declares if he will make another attempt to block with other minion or resign from any attempt to block.(go to point 4)
4. If Player B failed to block and resign from any attempt to block with other minions he can play cards "after blocks are declined" (for example deflection if its a bleed action). Block attempt has resolved. Action of Player A is successful (if not bouned).
5 If Player B blocks. Block attemp has resolved. Action failed and Combat begins.
> inm8 wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> >
> > > Shukran wrote:
> > > 3)
> > > player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
> > >
> > It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.
> >
> > See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing
> >
> Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
> If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.
>
> Enkil Cog
>
> Cardtype: Action Modifier
> Unique. Requires a vampire with capacity 10 or more. Only usable after resolution of a successful bleed against your prey.
> Put this card on this vampire. This vampire gets +1 bleed. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire can lock this card to take an action.
>
Enkil Cog doesn't make Player B an active Methuselah it allows a minion to act in active Methuselah (Player A) round.
Sorry for the double post
> Shukran wrote:
> I don't get , then, what " declining" really means. I thought that attempting to block would negate the decline.
>
Decline (to block).
The player announces that he is not blocking after which he can NOT decide to try to block again. Even if, say, the other player decides to increase the bleed.
You could also try to block, if the acting player plays more stealth (or some similar effect) and then say "No block", "Not blocking" or whatever and the effect would be just the same as if you had declined without even trying to block.
Finnish Politics!
> Lönkka wrote:
>
> > Shukran wrote:
> > I don't get , then, what " declining" really means. I thought that attempting to block would negate the decline.
> >
> Decline (to block).
> The player announces that he is not blocking after which he can NOT decide to try to block again. Even if, say, the other player decides to increase the bleed.
>
> You could also try to block, if the acting player plays more stealth (or some similar effect) and then say "No block", "Not blocking" or whatever and the effect would be just the same as if you had declined without even trying to block.
>
A locked vampire can use on the qui vive, try to block, decline to block if out-stealthed then play deflection?
Can u clarifying me the usage of dreams of the sphynx out of turn too?
I need to understand mechanics that allows these tricks
> Name: On the Qui Vive
> [Third:C/PB2/PM2/PTr2, KoT:C/PB3/PM3/PT2, HttB:PKia3/PSam4, SP:DoF4/LB4/PoS2/PwN6, 25th:3, FB:PM5/PN2/PTo5/PTr3/PV3, V5:PM5/PN5/PTr4]
> Cardtype: Reaction
> Only usable by a locked minion. A minion can play only one On the Qui Vive between their unlock phases.
> This minion wakes (they ignore the requirement to be unlocked for playing reaction cards and attempting to block until the end of the action). If this minion is an ally, they do not unlock as normal during their next unlock phase.
> Artist: David Day
>
The important part is "until the end of the action".
It means that a waked minion is allowed to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards as long as the action is not over.
Some corner case scenario could have :
Minion A bleed
Minion B is locked and play on the qui vive and attempt to block
Succesfull block
Minion A play a card to continue the action as if unblocked (e. g. Form of Mist)
B decline the block and play deflection to his prey
His prey "bounce back" playing his own deflection to B
Per bounces card text B is allowed to block again even if he allready declined to block and per On the Qui Vive card text is still allowed to attempt to block and/or play reaction cards
B attempt to block again
A out-stealth him
B play a telepathic Misdirection to bounce again to his prey.
For the dreams of the sphinx, technically, during every phase of the game, the acting player should give back the impulse to every other players in order to let them play an effect such has dreams of the sphinx.
During your unlock phase you have to give the opportunity to other players to play effects
(locking the dreams, burning a burn option, unlocking a minion with homunculus etc...)
During your master phase again
During your minion phase it becomes technically tricky because there is a lot of technical micro-phase
Before taking an action you have to give the opportunity to other player to lock the dreams or the Heidelberg Castle
After announcing an action, you have to give the impulse during the "as the action is announced" and then during the blocking phase
And during combat it becomes again more technical because of every minute phases like "pre-range", "choosing range", "pre-strike" and so on.
As a rule of thumb, you have the opportunity to lock your dream in every single micro-phase except the "as the card is played" where canceling effect and wake effect are the only one allowed.
> Tadori wrote:
>
> > inm8 wrote:
> >
> > > Ankha wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Shukran wrote:
> > > > 3)
> > > > player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
> > > >
> > > It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.
> > >
> > > See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
> > If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.
> >
> > Enkil Cog
> >
> > Cardtype: Action Modifier
> > Unique. Requires a vampire with capacity 10 or more. Only usable after resolution of a successful bleed against your prey.
> > Put this card on this vampire. This vampire gets +1 bleed. During any Methuselah's minion phase, this vampire can lock this card to take an action.
> >
> Enkil Cog doesn't make Player B an active Methuselah it allows a minion to act in active Methuselah (Player A) round.
>
> Sorry for the double post
>
You might be right but i can´t find anything in the rules that define the "acting Methuselah" as being the Methuselah which turn it is...as per my interpretation the "acting Methuselah" is the one currently using its influence over its minions to have them attempt to perform actions (which normally can only be done during ones own turn).
Ankha can we please have an official answer to the above, thanks.
> inm8 wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> >
> > > Shukran wrote:
> > > 3)
> > > player B uses enkil cow window tapping sphynx , then doing the action with the vampire.
> > >
> > It works once again with the impulse. Let's say B wants to act during A's turn. Once A has no more actions to perform with his/her minions, A gives the impulse to B who can use the Dreams to draw 2 cards. Then the impulse goes back to A. A can pass once again and B has the impulse to use the Enkil Cog.
> >
> > See sequencing www.vekn.net/rulebook/2-card-types#sequencing
> >
> Doesn’t Enkil Cog interrupt player A’s minion phase temporarily making player B the acting Methuselah?
> If it does, doesn’t that mean that If player B locks Enkil Cog and before announcing the action with the vampire who has the Enkil Cog locks the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size doesn’t pass the impulse to player A? I would have thought the impulse only passes to player A after the announcing of the action that the vampire with the triggered Enkil Cog will take and no more effects are wished to be played by player B as per the sequencing rule.
>
The way the question was formulated, I understood that OP wanted to use the Dreams when A passes the impulse, not during an action performed during A's turn.
As soon as B's minions is performing an action during A's turn, B is the acting Methuselah for the duration of the action.
At every stage, the acting Methuselah has the priority to play cards or effects. Usually, the acting Methuselah is the Methuselah whose turn it is, but in some cases, a minion controlled by another Methuselah can act outside its controller’s turn; in that case, the acting Methuselah is the controller of the acting minion for the duration of the action.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Thanks Ankha for clarifying that the the methuselah that is currently having a minion attempting an action is considered the "acting Methuselah".
Sorry for nitpicking .... few more questions:
1) When player B triggers Enkil Cog does that make him the "acting Methuselah" immediately?
2) Can player B trigger the use of Dreams of the Sphinx before attempting an action in the Enkil Cog time window?
3) If no on 1) and yes on 2) above does player A get the impulse back if player B uses the Dreams of the Sphinx before player B can have his minion take an action?
4) If player A gets the impulse on 3) is the Enkil Cog action lost or when does player B get the chance to attempt it?
> inm8 wrote:
> Thanks Ankha for clarifying that the the methuselah that is currently having a minion attempting an action is considered the "acting Methuselah".
>
> Sorry for nitpicking .... few more questions:
>
> 1) When player B triggers Enkil Cog does that make him the "acting Methuselah" immediately?
>
If B has the impulse and uses the Enkil Cog to perform an action, B becomes de facto the acting Methuselah since B is announcing an action (cf. Enkil Cog).
> inm8 wrote:
> 2) Can player B trigger the use of Dreams of the Sphinx before attempting an action in the Enkil Cog time window?
>
If A passes the impulse to B, B can use it to use the Dreams of Sphinx. Then the impulse goes back to A. If A passes again, B can use the Enkil Cog, or another effect, or pass.
> inm8 wrote:
> 3) If no on 1) and yes on 2) above does player A get the impulse back if player B uses the Dreams of the Sphinx before player B can have his minion take an action?
>
See previous answer.
> inm8 wrote:
> 4) If player A gets the impulse on 3) is the Enkil Cog action lost or when does player B get the chance to attempt it?
>
B cannot simulteanously use the Dreams of the Sphinx and the Enkil Cog, so the question is moot.
The only thing that could interrupt the Enkil Cog effect would be a Direct Intervention or similar card played to cancel B's action card as it is played. In that case, B can play another action card, or announce a cardless action, or let the effect fizzle.
groups.google.com/g/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/c/MNmJu12AU8I/m/Pol1P9fWMmoJ
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Am i understanding it right that by locking Enkil Cog the "attempting an action" is initiated making player B the acting methuselah and that it means that there isn't a time window between locking Enkil Cog and attempting an action and for that reason one can´t use the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size to increase the options of what action to attempt ie. the only thing that can happen after locking Enkil Cog is the announcing of the action?
Dreams of the Sphinx can be used for +2 hand size after the announcing of the action as usual by player B (for more for ex action modifiers) which is done while being the acting methuselah and thereby not passing the impulse to player A until saying that he does so?
Thanks for your patience with my questions
> inm8 wrote:
> Am i understanding it right that by locking Enkil Cog the "attempting an action" is initiated making player B the acting methuselah and that it means that there isn't a time window between locking Enkil Cog and attempting an action and for that reason one can´t use the Dreams of the Sphinx to get +2 hand size to increase the options of what action to attempt ie. the only thing that can happen after locking Enkil Cog is the announcing of the action?
>
Locking Enkil Cog to use it and announcing the action are parts of the same effect. You cannot do something in between.
As an analogy: you cannot lock Dreams to draw 2 cards and do something else before drawing the 2 cards.
> inm8 wrote:
> Dreams of the Sphinx can be used for +2 hand size after the announcing of the action as usual by player B (for more for ex action modifiers) which is done while being the acting methuselah and thereby not passing the impulse to player A until saying that he does so?
>
Correct.
B uses the Enkil Cog to announce an action. Now B is the acting Methuselah and can use the Dreams before playing other effects or passing the impulse to the defending Methuselah.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director