www.vekn.net/2-uncategorised/434-vampire-elder-kindred-network-newsletter-may-2019
In the may/2019 newsletter 2 topics make me fear the Translations.
>
> Will card names be translated? And keywords?
> - We're working on this with our partners now, but that is our intent.
>
> Do you see any drawbacks with translation?
> - Two main things come to mind: One is the additional cost and expense of translating. The other is confusion for players looking at a card in multiple languages. We're looking at how best to resolve this e.g. rules and card rulings are in English, do we have an identifier on cards to enable mapping back etc.
>
Any news about how to avoid problems with card name Translations? ( Please say "we will keep the original names")
What is the proposed identifier on the cards, the original name?
Can we expect a compilation and translation of ALL rullings from decades ago like LSJ rullings that still dictates how some cards interacts ?
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Only in the Spanish version (even portuguese is probably different enough).
In other languages it'll still be named "Día de los Muertos"
Finnish Politics!
Im still trying to know more info about the translations, the newsletter is from may and no one talked about It again.
Maybe its time to print the card code somewherein the card and start to use it in Amaranth, feldb, etc...
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Thats the problem, im affraid that they just drop the bomb when its already too late to change something and do more bad then good with the translations!
There is absolutely nothing anywhere in the official forum similar to a guideline to the translations, how will be translated the cards?
Does russian cards have English Names? Portuguese cards will follow the same guidelines as russian cards? Official Vampire the Masquearade translations will be used? Personal Names?
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
I'm pretty sure that the people involved in the translation (both at BCP/VEKn and the company doing the translated version) have thought about these things.
I think that the info regarding this is on need to know basis and no one else that the involved parties are in need to know. You, me and everyone else.
Trying to somehow democratically vote the translations would be a logistical nightmare still leaving sh... bad taste in most everybody's mouths.
Finnish Politics!
> Lönkka wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that the people involved in the translation (both at BCP/VEKn and the company doing the translated version) have thought about these things.
>
> I think that the info regarding this is on need to know basis and no one else that the involved parties are in need to know. You, me and everyone else.
>
> Trying to somehow democratically vote the translations would be a logistical nightmare still leaving sh... bad taste in most everybody's mouths.
>
You may be right, but the original poster's concerns are warranted.
Any translation process should include a first step of translating the text plus a second step for quality control. This is standard process in the field of translation.
This means that (1) materials get translated by a certified bilingual translator, (2) a second certified bilingual translator reviews the translated text (and back-translates as appropriate to ensure the translated text is appropriate), (3) the two translators resolve any issues, (4) a quality assurance editor fluent in the target language (and preferably one who has researched VTES beforehand) reviews the translated copy and resolves any issues with the translators, and (5) the translators and editor proof the final translated card layouts against the original English versions. Because this is a card game, an additional step 6 is the translated cards should then be play tested.
Judging from how VTES has never involved a quality control process at any time ever for even non-translated cards, I doubt the processes I outlined are being followed (it would be expensive to do so). I am guessing there is just one person making the translations, with the QC process happening "democratically" through play testing. If that is the case (and I hope I am wrong), there is an incredibly high chance for disaster to happen with these translations.
As an italian player, I want to state here and now that most of the "Italian-like" terms in the game are... well... awful. (But it's WW fault XD)
If you want I can provide a list, or not
Lurking in the underground of Bologna, Italy
> thelonius wrote:
> As an italian player, I want to state here and now that most of the "Italian-like" terms in the game are... well... awful. (But it's WW fault XD)
>
> If you want I can provide a list, or not
>
That would be interesting
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Lönkka wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that the people involved in the translation (both at BCP/VEKn and the company doing the translated version) have thought about these things.
>
> I think that the info regarding this is on need to know basis and no one else that the involved parties are in need to know. You, me and everyone else.
>
> Trying to somehow democratically vote the translations would be a logistical nightmare still leaving sh... bad taste in most everybody's mouths.
>
Im not asking to vote anything, but I think that at least we can talk about it and MAYBE something useful could improve the final result.
My biggest fear is about card names and how the translations of these can make the organizer life harder then its already is.
Just imagine an European Championship 2021 with people that talk 5 different languages in the same table and the judge/players stopping the game each time a card is played to know what a card do.
Its already hard to track what a card do with only english because we have cards 25 years old that changed a lot...
The only thing that dont change is the cards names, even the game name already changed.
The simple suggestion is, dont translate card names.
The not so simple is, print the card unique code used in the CSV somewhere visible in the card and make a list that is easy to find the card, the translation and all rules that may concern about this card.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
What makes you so fearful that the people the publisher and BCP hall of famers aren't able to take care of such basic things? I'm sure that they are all as concerned about the quality of the translation.
And as you notice, no one is offering any actual info on this. Not even the BCP member posting a reply since my last post
I also hope for the best and fear for the worst.
As to TwoRazorReign's proposed translation method. In ideal world perhaps. Often these project tend to cost quite a lot and corners are cut since producing VTES is not printing gold. Therefore I kinda assume that a lot of costs are kept as low as possible. Hope not, but that is unfortunately how things tend to get done :/
Finnish Politics!
Yes, I dont expect anything, thats why I asked about a guideline.
My concern is exactly because everyone is radio silence about It.
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
Just for you I asked during last weekend's Ropecon GP's stream from BCP's Henrik about this.
(EDIT: Note that pictured in the link below is the Ropecon Tournament Organizer and Judge being interviewed, not Henrik... )
So, here is some thoughts directly from the horse's mouth:
Finnish Politics!