In the latest newsletter, there is a ruling that says and ousted player's cards are removed from game and returned to their owners ashheap where applicable.
Does this mean that these cards can be recurred?
Current recursion cards do not specify whether a card has to be still in the game, only that it is in the ashheap.
I always understood removed from game to be completely removed from game, and not placed to the ashheap. Is this a new ruling?
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
Oh, wait. Scratch that. I reread the ruling and realised that the Fame in the example goes to the ashheap because it is not controlled by the ousted player.
Suaku
Inceptor Asian Continental Championship
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www.youtube.com/SuakuOz
> the1andonlime wrote:
> I always understood removed from game to be completely removed from game, and not placed to the ashheap. Is this a new ruling?
>
The wording is what it is because obviously this situation doesn't change card ownership.
I admit I haven't been sure what happened to cards controlled but not owned by the ousted player. This is important to a deck that heavily uses the ashheap, such as legionnaire deck.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
If A played a card on B and B is ousted, the card goes back to A's ash heap if A controls it. If B controls it, the card is removed from the game.
For instance, A plays a Fame on B's minion. B is ousted. Since A controls the Fame, the Fame goes to A's ash heap.
If A plays a Disarm on B's minion and B is ousted, the Disarm is removed from the game since B controls it.
If A plays a Coven and B takes control of it and is ousted with it, the Coven is removed from the game.
If A plays a Temptation on B's minion, and B is ousted, then the Temptation goes back to A's ash heap since A is still controlling the Temptation per cardtext.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> If A plays a Coven and B takes control of it and is ousted with it, the Coven is removed from the game.
>
Ankha,you cannot imagine how much people make mistake about Coven,and probably other similar stuff about ash heap and removed!!!!!
I will make question now about some doubt when is player ousted or only his minion burned:
1) So if A play Coven,Powerbase Montreal,or Event:Scourge of the Enochians and B take controls of these cards,and B be ousted cards are removed,right?
2) If A play on B (actualy minion of B player): Vesel,any master discipline,Disarm,Anathema,and B steal from A: Secure haven,and any weapon or retainer,what be happen if:
a) B is ousted
b) B is still in play but minion who control these cards from A is burned?
3) If A play against B player minion: Unholy Penance,Serpent's Numbing Kiss,Mind Numb, what happen if:
a) B is ousted
b) B is still in play but minion who control these cards from A is burned?
Unholy Penance
Strike: combat ends.
As above, and put this card on the opposing minion at close or long range.
The striking vampire gets +1 bleed against the attached minion's controller.
The attached minion can burn this card as a +1 stealth action.
A minion can have only one Unholy Penance.
Serpent's Numbing Kiss
[ser] Strike: combat ends.
[SER] As above, and if the range is close, this vampire burns 1 blood to
put this card on the opposing minion and lock him or her. The attached minion does not unlock as normal.
Burn this card during his or her unlock phase.
Mind Numb
Put this card on an unlocked vampire and lock him or her.
The attached vampire does not unlock as normal. Burn this card during your unlock phase.
As above, and this is a +1 stealth action.
There are two rules to know:
1) when you are ousted, all cards you control are removed from the game
2) by default, if you play a card on a minion, you control it if it's a master card, otherwise the controller of the minion controls it.
Control can different if the card says so (Coven, Mind Numb etc.)
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> There are two rules to know:
> 1) when you are ousted, all cards you control are removed from the game
> 2) by default, if you play a card on a minion, you control it if it's a master card, otherwise the controller of the minion controls it.
>
> Control can different if the card says so (Coven, Mind Numb etc.)
>
So if A play Vesel or discipline master on B,if A ousted Vesel and master are burned,and if B ousted cards goes in A ash heap?
And can you confirm about this: If A play on B (actualy minion of B player): Vesel,any master discipline,Disarm,Anathema,and B steal from A: Secure haven,and any weapon or retainer,what be happen if: B is still in play but minion who control these cards from A is burned? also if you burn 3 blood to burn Disarm,where Disarm goes?
> beslin wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > There are two rules to know:
> > 1) when you are ousted, all cards you control are removed from the game
> > 2) by default, if you play a card on a minion, you control it if it's a master card, otherwise the controller of the minion controls it.
> >
> > Control can different if the card says so (Coven, Mind Numb etc.)
> >
> So if A play Vesel or discipline master on B,if A ousted Vesel and master are burned
>
No, they are removed from the game.
> beslin wrote:
> and if B ousted cards goes in A ash heap?
>
Correct.
> beslin wrote:
> And can you confirm about this: If A play on B (actualy minion of B player): Vesel,any master discipline,Disarm,Anathema,and B steal from A: Secure haven,and any weapon or retainer,what be happen if: B is still in play but minion who control these cards from A is burned?
>
They all go to their owner's ash heap: A.
>
> beslin wrote:
> also if you burn 3 blood to burn Disarm,where Disarm goes?
>
To its owner's ash heap: A
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> beslin wrote:
> Ankha,you cannot imagine how much people make mistake about Coven,and probably other similar stuff about ash heap and removed!!!!!
>
Because the current rule adds unnecessary complication. Burning is the default way cards leave play. Removing from the game is only used when there is a reason to (most often to prevent recursion sheenanigans.) There is a very good reason to remove cards owned by a dying player from the game: to let him pack and go home. There is no such need for cards owned by other players in the dying player's play areas, no matter who controls them.
Then there are the cards owned by the dying player but under someone else's control, for which there is no perfect solution: either you have to proxy when the player wants to pick up his cards, or you have to accept that some guy's arm suddenly grows back because the dude who ripped it off is leaving.