When an acting vampire in torpor is blocked, can they burn a Ghoul Escort to untap and end the action before the blocker can choose to diablerize them?
Ghoul Escort
Ghoul with 4 life. Requires a ready vampire.
When this vampire is blocked, he or she may burn this retainer and untap instead of entering combat. (This does not untap the blocker.)
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
It is usually considered good form to copy the relevant card texts to the questions.
It is actually the first thing the posting quidelines for Rules Questions mention:
> Pascal wrote:
> 1 - Quote cardtext. As a remainder, the only official source for cardtext is the vekn website . Even though some other sources are updated, not all are, and I don't have a list of who has updated their list.
>
www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/44519-how-to-make-a-rules-post-look-good
Finnish Politics!
> Molloy wrote:
> When an acting vampire in torpor is blocked, can they burn a Ghoul Escort to untap and end the action before the blocker can choose to diablerize them?
>
Could you point to the text that you think means Ghoul Escort ends the action, rather than merely stopping a combat?
Perhaps I worded my question poorly by saying "end the action."
"burn this retainer and untap instead of..." most certainly interrupts the normal resolution of the block. My question is, is the "entering combat" part a clarifier (as entering combat is what would normally follow) or is it specifying the only aspect of block resolution that is removed?
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
> Molloy wrote:
> My question is, is the "entering combat" part a clarifier (as entering combat is what would normally follow) or is it specifying the only aspect of block resolution that is removed?
>
It's the only part of block resolution that's removed. Card text says nothing about anything else.
[LSJ 20080611]
>
> LSJ wrote:
> > Crypt's Sons explicitly says that they allow you to "cancel combat and
> > continue the action". Can you use their special ability on a Leave
> > Torpor action, which doesn't have a combat to cancel?
>
> While hoping the blocking vampire doesn't diablerize the acting vampire, sure.
> (Same as with a Ghoul Escort).
>
> If the blocking vampire diablerizes the acting vampire, the continuance wouldn't
> get far.
>
Seriously, Lönnka, why would you so elaborately scold me about including card text when I included the card text? WTF
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
> Molloy wrote:
> Seriously, why would you so elaborately scold me about including card text when I included the card text? WTF
>
Because my question was nothing to do with including card text. My question was to get you to explain which part of the text indicated that the action ended, when nothing in the card text indicates that the action ends.
See also: you are now exploding in a shower of WTF because you think I asked you to paste card text in your post (which you already had), when I actually asked you to point to the bit of that text that had the effect you claim. You can tell this because I asked you to point to the bit of card text that had that effect.
I was replying to Lönnka. I edited my post within thirty seconds to clarify that, I'm sorry you thought I was talking to you, James.
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
> Molloy wrote:
> I was replying to Lönnka. I edited my post within thirty seconds to clarify that, I'm sorry you thought I was talking to you, James.
>
Pro-tip: quote text, or use people's names, otherwise the natural response is to believe you're responding to the previous post.
I'm doing this on my phone and the forum template says "Reply to [name here]" so I thought it was clear to whom each post was replying. I know better now.
On topic, the effect (per card text) of Crypt's Sons is different enough from that of Ghoul Escort that the LSJ quote may not be relevant.
"To have a vampire in torpor attempt to leave torpor, announce the action and lock the acting vampire. If the action is successful, the acting vampire pays the cost (2 blood) and moves from the torpor region to the ready region. If this action is blocked, there is no combat (vampires in torpor cannot enter combat). Instead, if the blocker is a vampire, he gets the opportunity to diablerize the acting vampire (see Diablerie, sec. 6.5.5)."
The opportunity to diablerize is a consequence of a successful block explicitly "intead" of combat. Ghoul Escort specifies something else to happen "instead of" combat. It's not unreasonable to suppose that the one thing happening instead of combat per card text supplants the default thing that would happen instead of combat.
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
> Molloy wrote:
> The opportunity to diablerize is a consequence of a successful block explicitly "intead" of combat. Ghoul Escort specifies something else to happen "instead of" combat. It's not unreasonable to suppose that the one thing happening instead of combat per card text supplants the default thing that would happen instead of combat.
>
No. If combat is replaced by something else (eg., an opportunity to diablerize), it cannot be replaced a second time by something else because there is no combat to replace anymore.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Thank you.
Just to be precise, is option 2) on the following list correct, or one of the others?
A vampire with a Ghoul Escort is blocked by a ready vampire when attempting the leave torpor action.
1) They cannot burn the Ghoul Escort.
2) They can burn the Ghoul Escort but doing so will have no effect.
3) They can burn the Ghoul Escort, which will unlock them but will not prevent the blocker from diablerizing them.
Sabbat. Animals, Wraiths and Zombies Molloy recruits or employs get an additional life.
> Molloy wrote:
> Thank you.
>
> Just to be precise, is option 2) on the following list correct, or one of the others?
>
> A vampire with a Ghoul Escort is blocked by a ready vampire when attempting the leave torpor action.
>
> 1) They cannot burn the Ghoul Escort.
>
> 2) They can burn the Ghoul Escort but doing so will have no effect.
>
> 3) They can burn the Ghoul Escort, which will unlock them but will not prevent the blocker from diablerizing them.
>
Answer 1)
You cannot "do X instead of Y" if Y does not happen.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director