V5 Camarilla and Anarch books - what do they mean for V:TES?

The PDFs for the V5 Camarilla and Anarchs sourcebooks have been sent to those who've pre-ordered and will be available to everyone else on November 7.. There's some very intriguing material in there. What are your thoughts about the books, particularly as they pertain to V:TES? www.facebook.com/whitewolfpublishing/posts/10156439648360465?__tn__=C-R Major stuff I've come across so far: - Gangrel and Brujah have split from the Camarilla and are now Anarchs. Theo Bell assassinates Hardestadt and goes Anarch. There remains a Camarilla-loyal faction of Brujah called the Hellenes. - The Assamite followers of Haqim are now known as the Banu Haqim (with their own clan symbol) and have joined the Camarilla. Quietus is incorporated into Blood Sorcery (formerly known as Thaumaturgy). - The Followers of Set are now known as The Ministry, were rejected by the Camarilla, and many of them are Anarchs. They now have Protean instead of Serpentis. They call their use of Protean "Serpentis", but they can Earth Meld and such. Indications are that previous Serpentis powers will become Presence-Protean amalgam powers. Oh and you'll love who the Prince of Dublin is.

The 2nd Inquisition blew up the Tremere HQ in Vienna killing a bunch of elders but... that doesn't make a lot of sense... how did a bunch of mortals ambush and bomb vampires with AUSPEX++? They had stuff like Premonitions, Eagle's Sight, Clairvoyance, Psychic Projection, Precognition, and Pulse of the Canaille. How did these guys not see this coming? Furthermore, I thought the premise of the Masquerade was that the vampires were pulling the strings behind in all the positions of power around the world - that the CIA and MI6 and such were ultimately being manipulated by some vampire behind the scenes dominating the chiefs / directors of the various intel agencies. But this isn't the case apparently. The Camarilla had no-one inside these agencies apparently that could've given them the heads-up that a 2nd Inquisition was upon them. It also took these agencies finding a computer terminal connected to ShreckNet to realize that vampires were a legit thing - nevermind the Sabbat creating armies of shovelheads and war ghouls to throw at Camarilla cities. Half of the elders ran off to the Middle East for some reason? Werewolves and Mages still uphold the Masquerade for some reason? I do like the new emphasis on hunger (frenzy) and hunting (make we could get some cool hunting grounds?) Changing generation to blood potency was a good move IMO. The Nosferatu aren't really ugly or disfigured anymore. The Malkavians don't have Dementation as a clan-defining (unique) discipline. Quietus is incorporated into Thaumaturgy, but Necromancy isn't? Calling Thaumaturgy 'Blood Sorcery' is lame IMO, since you can get more conceptual mileage out of the former. Some of the pictures are nice. Others are bad. I pray VTES never decides to go with the photo-shoot / still-image look. It would make for terrible looking cards. All in all, I think VTES would be better off taking inspiration from (and liberty with) any source material. Swearing an oath of fealty to WW's canon and lore means you have to live with all of their mistakes and bad ideas. Gangrel. Noddist. Camarilla. Once each turn, LivesByProxy may burn 1 blood to lose Protean until the end of the turn and gain your choice of superior Auspex , Obfuscate , or Potence for the current action.

There is some misconceptions here... First of, the Camarila are the ones who TOLD the second inquisition about vampires because they wanted to manipulate them and use them as weapons against the Sabbat, like Jalan-Aajav was mentioned being the first notable vampire that got destroyed by them, however, just like it did with the first inquisition, that blew on their faces and the second inquisition ended up turning against them and striking at Camarilla as well, destroying their powerbases in London, Berlin, and Vienna. Second, the elders went to middle east because they were called there by the clan founders to fight in the gehenna war against supposedly the Sabbat, kind of like how Zapahustra tried calling the Ravnos to his aid but they refused which is why the whole Week of Nightmares happened. And Nosferatu are still ugly, they get the repulsive flaw automatically, which is basically equivalent to having appearance 0 in the old system (as appearance is no longer a stat, but instead there are apperance related flaws and merits you can get that increase or decrease your social skills in appropriate situations). Dementation is now a combination power of Dominate and Obfuscate, so it still exists. Necromancy will likely be included in blood sorcery also when they actually release it for the v5. They only have the core camarilla clans out so far (and for whatever werid reason decided to include Quietus even though there aren't assamites as player characters yet). Protean and Serpentis always had lot of overlap so combining those makes sense.

> Theo Bell assassinates Hardestadt and goes Anarch. > Isn't that already Theo Bell advanced? He could be errated as anarch instead of independent.

> Non-existant user wrote: > > > Theo Bell assassinates Hardestadt and goes Anarch. > > > Isn't that already Theo Bell advanced? He could be errated as anarch instead of independent. > Yep. Base version: www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?crypt=416 Advanced version: www.secretlibrary.info/index.php?crypt=748 Issuing errata or outright replacing him is an option, though I'd prefer to let people play with their cards as printed. I also prefer preserving those versions as snapshots of the World of Darkness at that point in time. If we were to publish new versions of Theo Bell (or Fatima or any of a number of existing V:TES vampires who are prominent in V5) it would likely be necessary to create a new structure/rule/mechanic/whatever to allow for multiple versions and varying grouping numbers. Ideally, we'd be able to have different snapshots of characters across the World of Darkness timeline, with the grouping numbers representing different points in that timeline.

> BenPeal wrote: > Ideally, we'd be able to have different snapshots of characters across the World of Darkness timeline, with the grouping numbers representing different points in that timeline. > ^ This sounds great. Amaranth Deck Building Tool : VTES NZ : VTES ANZ Facebook

I dig that you guys are considering this stuff. Hoping to eventually see the game grow to whole new G6/7 crypt vampires for the main clans.

I sure hope that Paradox's need to get everything under the umbrella of current edition of the RPG doesn't damage the balance of VTES. And when 6th edition comes around (sooner or later it ill) with some new ideas for storyline direction I sure hope we aren't being yanked to yet another direction. Just think what would've happened to VTES if WW had started to steer it towards Redemption when it was released... VTES ain't a RPG but a card/board game. No need for it to try to emulate all the changes happening in the RPG it draws its inspiration from! Finnish Politics!

Me, I'm also hoping to see some stuff from Beckett's Jyhad Diary (excellent book) to migrate to VTES. Advanced Carna as Anarch, anyone?

So, in the end, all vampires become anarch. But since they don't get along together, some create the Anarch Camarilla, other the Anarch Sabbat Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

> Lönkka wrote: > I sure hope that Paradox's need to get everything under the umbrella of current edition of the RPG doesn't damage the balance of VTES. > You don't like Malk94?

> Lönkka wrote: > No need for it to try to emulate all the changes happening in the RPG it draws its inspiration from! > No, not all, but at least the ones that the owner insists on. "My strategy? Luck is my strategy, of course."

Now that it appears V5 is going to introduce things not compatible with VTES, I think it should be ignored, the same way Requiem was ignored. I mean, quietus and Followers of Set no longer exist. How's that going to work? Barring that, it might be time to consider making Jyhad 2.0 based on V5. Scrap the CCG model VTES was built upon, streamline how the rules are written, distribute cards using an LCG model, and focus as much on 2 player as multiplayer. As for the current VTES, keep it as is and continue to produce specific cards for it. If, say, some of the crypt cards based on V5 can be made compatible with the current game, great. I have zero idea how feasible any of this is. Would the public buy what is essentially a new game based on the fifth version of an RPG that was originally popular in 1995? Probably not. And I'd guess the VTES fanbase probably would not want it either.

I heard that v5 introduces some major shake ups. Dominate was really toned down (I guess they felt like it was limiting role play with discipline use) and pentex went bankrupt. Will be interesting to see these changes translated to the ccg!

None of this is super new..... We will keep getting trickles of Canon each V5 book. Not sure when I'll pick up this one (kids Christmas presents, need new neck pickup on my tele, normal first world problems...) but I am glad they hit the serpentis thing. V5 already established encompassing . Does it need to impact us? It could if we wanted less distinction between clans. Sabbat (like I have outlined in my metaplot thread) had themselves another civil war. Some still exist around cities as boogey men, bulk went to kill them some Antideluvians in the East. Its purpose of course was to shake the state of the meta to being the more relatable (and more playable from a character standpoint with Inquisition over-presence) cam vs Anarch thing. We will of course benefit from groupings 6+ reflecting this, but I see no reason to stop printing sabbat or remove & erratta disciplines. I've pruned out much of my politically provoked anger from the mechanics review from V5 and it will be added to the metaplot cafe. Ironically, I call protean 5 being a squishy drunk setite who messes up using heart of darkness, so that's fun. Anyone looking for dot by dot synopsys (and other rog mechanics things) can feel free to check it later.

From what I read from Metaplot Cafe, there were 'draught of' skills for many discplines. Those teach that discipline through drinking blood. It would be easy to make Field Training -esque cards for them. Draught of Potency (or whatever the skill is called in the book) +1 stealth action Requires a vampire with superior . Choose another vampire without , attach to that vampire and unlock this vampire. The chosen vampire gains a level of Potence. Etc. Lovely. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

I would love to see some canon characters introduced in new groupings with changes. Lucinde also could, as she's now Ventrue Justicar for unlife (her special could be that other Ventrue Justicar lose their title to her). The question of contest would arise, of course (for me they would need to); and it would have to be exceptional, to avoid redundancy and, ultimately, lameness.

> Orpheus wrote: > I would love to see some canon characters introduced in new groupings with changes. Lucinde also could, as she's now Ventrue Justicar for unlife (her special could be that other Ventrue Justicar lose their title to her). > The question of contest would arise, of course (for me they would need to); and it would have to be exceptional, to avoid redundancy and, ultimately, lameness. > Not sure about other groupings for one vamp, but variant ADV stuff SHOULD exist. Theo Bell ADV(2) , Lucius Sejanus (Marcus vitel) , off the top of my head. As for Justicar for life, Karl Schrekt. Hes one of the oldest surviving Tremere, a legendary badass, and frankly the best choice for a group 7 Tremere justicar anyway. Maybe its worth treating Anarchs with more voting weight now though; not "extra titles " but "Anarch. 1 vote" or "Anarch. Baron of Copenhagen. {CardName} gets one additional vote."

> TwoRazorReign wrote: > Now that it appears V5 is going to introduce things not compatible with VTES, I think it should be ignored, the same way Requiem was ignored. > Not a really valid comparision, since Requiem is a totally separate game & game world, while V5 is a continuation of the same V:tM game line. I personally think V5 changes should be incorporated into VTES slowly, as alternate/variant versions of different characters (in higher groups?) and maybe some V5-related master & event cards. No major changes needed, just as none were needed when VTES previously evolved with the ever-changing WoD metaplot (Week of Nightmares, etc etc). Also Beckett's Jyhad Diary stuff, please: Advanced Carna as Anarch Advanced Mary the Black The Ticktock Man Advanced Hesha The Master of Ravens etc etc

Friend gave me to read part of Camarilla book about Chechnya. It was hilariously stupid. As I understand, everything else in the metaplot is quite in line with it, so it's better not to touch it even with 10 feet pole. Idea to get rid of some useless disciplines is quite fine thou. VtES will greatly benefit if we will do the same NC Russia

> ReverendRevolver wrote: > As for Justicar for life, Karl Schrekt. Hes one of the oldest surviving Tremere, a legendary badass, and frankly the best choice for a group 7 Tremere justicar anyway. > Karl is not the Tremere Justicar in V5, it's Ian Carfax. Maxime Socroun, 3200321

There is nothing wrong with printing alternate version of the same vampire in different groupings. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

> Lech wrote: > There is nothing wrong with printing alternate version of the same vampire in different groupings. > As long as you retain the name, so that they contest. Same goes for different versions of Advanced versions. It would be fun to see the same base vampire merge into different kinds of vampires. Of course you would only be able to merge two different versions, not stack versions. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

> Ashur wrote: > > > Lönkka wrote: > > No need for it to try to emulate all the changes happening in the RPG it draws its inspiration from! > > > No, not all, but at least the ones that the owner insists on. > Which is totally silly. Why wreck precarious VTES game balance because the current source material owners want to tweak the RPG rules/background/metaplot? The card game ain't the RPG. And vice versa. With the RPG it is pretty easy to say, forget all the previous material, THIS is how the world is now. With VTES you have the baggage of 24 years of cards (with mere a dozen or so banned ones), most of which you just can't throw away. Finnish Politics!

> Lönkka wrote: > Why wreck precarious VTES game balance because the current source material owners want to tweak the RPG rules/background/metaplot? > Because we want the current source material owners to continue to let us publish V:TES. Of course we (BCP) and they (WW) don't want to wreck game balance. At the same time, if there are changes we need to make so that the game can move forward with the new source material, we'll have to do what we can to accommodate that.

As we know from the countless discussions about card balance until there are DI, Sudden and cross-table rushes the balance of VtES will be fine NC Russia