I have some questions about this new vampire and couldn't find anything about her when I searched the site so here are my questions. First, here is her card text:
Name: Marie-Pierre
Cardtype: Vampire
Clan: Samedi
Group: 6
Capacity: 4
Discipline: for nec THN
Independent: Marie-Pierre can lock after a combat involving another Samedi you control to enter combat with the opposing minion. She cannot block older vampires.
Question 1: Who is the acting minion when Marie-Pierre uses her ability? I have been playing as if she is the acting minion, but I'm pretty sure she isn't acting (and can't play action modifiers), she is just using her ability. And what if she uses her ability after the combat resulting from another Samedi you control blocking an acting minion? Would she be considered the "acting minion", and play her combat cards first? If so, why?
Question 2: What is the timing of her ability with respect to action modifiers (specifically freak drive)? I'm pretty sure that Marie-Pierre is never acting when she uses her ability, so she can't play freak drive after the combat she entered with her ability. If she uses her ability after the combat resulting from my other Samedi getting blocked or successfully rushing (and the blocking minion is still ready), when can the acting Samedi play superior Freak Drive, before Marie-Pierre uses her ability and finishes combat or after? What if the acting Samedi successfully rushed and has Perfectionist? When do they gain the blood (not that it matters much, but just curious)?
Question 3: What about the timing of reaction cards? If Marie-Pierre isn't acting when she uses her ability, can the opposing minion play a reaction card like Obedience? I think not ever, even if my other Samedi was acting during the combat that just finished. But can I get a ruling here?
Question 4: What about cards like Psyche or Telepathic Tracking? If my other Samedi was acting and combat ended with both combatants still ready, can I use Marie-Pierre's ability before the opposing minion can play Superior Psyche? I think not, but I'd appreciate a ruling.
I may come up with other questions, but that's all I can think of for now. Marie-Pierre is lots of fun and I think she's a lovely vampire, but also kinda makes my head hurt. Thanks!
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> I have some questions about this new vampire and couldn't find anything about her when I searched the site so here are my questions.
>
She works the same way as a combat created by Blissful Agony for instance.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> Question 1: Who is the acting minion when Marie-Pierre uses her ability? I have been playing as if she is the acting minion, but I'm pretty sure she isn't acting (and can't play action modifiers), she is just using her ability.
>
As LSJ said (groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/YHFQQjVJvms/dU-iNDIggpIJ) :
> LSJ wrote:
> Neither is acting (for effects that refer to "acting minion"), but
> standard sequencing rules apply (i.e., acting player, then blocking/
> target player, then clockwise from the acting player).
>
> groups.google.com/group/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/msg/fdb5cf79f87e36b8
>
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> Question 2: What is the timing of her ability with respect to action modifiers (specifically freak drive)?
>
She enters combat before the acting minion can play Freak Drive. The acting minion can play Freak Drive at the end of the action, as usual.
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/TUDO_4FwdyY/DWOwgQL850gJ
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> I'm pretty sure that Marie-Pierre is never acting when she uses her ability, so she can't play freak drive after the combat she entered with her ability.
>
Correct.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> What if the acting Samedi successfully rushed and has Perfectionist? When do they gain the blood (not that it matters much, but just curious)?
>
Same window as Freak Drive.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> Question 3: What about the timing of reaction cards? If Marie-Pierre isn't acting when she uses her ability, can the opposing minion play a reaction card like Obedience?
>
Not Obedience because Obedience works only against acting vampire (and Marie-Pierre isn't acting in that case).
If the opposing minion is not the acting minion, he could play reaction cards that apply.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> Question 4: What about cards like Psyche or Telepathic Tracking? If my other Samedi was acting and combat ended with both combatants still ready, can I use Marie-Pierre's ability before the opposing minion can play Superior Psyche? I think not, but I'd appreciate a ruling.
>
Psyche! is played during combat, way before Marie-Pierre's ability can be used.
I may come up with other questions, but that's all I can think of for now. Marie-Pierre is lots of fun and I think she's a lovely vampire, but also kinda makes my head hurt. Thanks![/quote]
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Can Marie-Pierre special stop efect of Rotschreck to another Samedi going to torpor?
Rotschreck, Master
Out-of-turn. Frenzy.
Put this card on a vampire when an opposing minion attempts to inflict aggravated damage on him or her (whether the damage would be successfully inflicted or not). Combat ends. This vampire is locked and sent to torpor. This vampire does not unlock as normal. Burn this card during this vampire's unlock phase.
> beslin wrote:
> Can Marie-Pierre special stop efect of Rotschreck to another Samedi going to torpor?
>
No way. It’s not stopping that combat from ending nor starting a new combat involving the vampire that got Rotschrecked. It’s just starting a new combat with Marie-Pierre after combat has ended. But Relentless Reaper stops Rotschreck’s effects if the original Samedi plays it, so just do that.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
>
> > beslin wrote:
> > Can Marie-Pierre special stop efect of Rotschreck to another Samedi going to torpor?
> >
> No way.
>
Way.
> mjvtes521 wrote:
> It’s not stopping that combat from ending nor starting a new combat involving the vampire that got Rotschrecked. It’s just starting a new combat with Marie-Pierre after combat has ended.
>
Which is also true if someone plays Fast Reaction. Which interrupts Rotschreck's resolution, nullifying the "go to torpor" effect (but not the effects that have already happened, nor the in-play effect).
[RTR 01-MAY-2002]
> Non-existant user wrote:
> Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
> single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
> new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
> Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to
> end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after
> combat (see Majesty ruling above).
>
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > mjvtes521 wrote:
> > I'm pretty sure that Marie-Pierre is never acting when she uses her ability, so she can't play freak drive after the combat she entered with her ability.
> >
> Correct.
>
"Never" is slightly too strong. If someone else was the acting minion, she doesn't become it using it her ability. But she could be the acting minion and unlocked, such as if she'd untapped during the action(*), and then some other minion had Hidden Lurker-ed - Marie-Pierre would then be able to lock after the HL combat.
(*) There are ways of doing this, most of which are a bit odd, but technically possible. Infamous Insurgent and Firebrand, for example. If she got a Rutor's Hand somehow. That sort of thing.
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > mjvtes521 wrote:
> >
> > > beslin wrote:
> > > Can Marie-Pierre special stop efect of Rotschreck to another Samedi going to torpor?
> > >
> > >
> > No way.
> >
> Way.
>
> > mjvtes521 wrote:
> > It’s not stopping that combat from ending nor starting a new combat involving the vampire that got Rotschrecked. It’s just starting a new combat with Marie-Pierre after combat has ended.
> >
> Which is also true if someone plays Fast Reaction. Which interrupts Rotschreck's resolution, nullifying the "go to torpor" effect (but not the effects that have already happened, nor the in-play effect).
>
> [RTR 01-MAY-2002]
>
> > Non-existant user wrote:
> > Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
> > single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
> > new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
> > Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to
> > end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after
> > combat (see Majesty ruling above).
> >
I stand corrected. Rotschreck is no match for Samedi combat!!!
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> >
> > > mjvtes521 wrote:
> > > I'm pretty sure that Marie-Pierre is never acting when she uses her ability, so she can't play freak drive after the combat she entered with her ability.
> > >
> > Correct.
> >
> "Never" is slightly too strong.
>
Yes, read: using her ability doesn't make Marie-Pierre an acting vampire.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> jamesatzephyr wrote:
>
> > mjvtes521 wrote:
> >
> > > beslin wrote:
> > > Can Marie-Pierre special stop efect of Rotschreck to another Samedi going to torpor?
> > >
> > >
> > No way.
> >
> Way.
>
> > mjvtes521 wrote:
> > It’s not stopping that combat from ending nor starting a new combat involving the vampire that got Rotschrecked. It’s just starting a new combat with Marie-Pierre after combat has ended.
> >
> Which is also true if someone plays Fast Reaction. Which interrupts Rotschreck's resolution, nullifying the "go to torpor" effect (but not the effects that have already happened, nor the in-play effect).
>
> [RTR 01-MAY-2002]
>
> > Non-existant user wrote:
> > Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
> > single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
> > new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
> > Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to
> > end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after
> > combat (see Majesty ruling above).
> >
I mean on last part : "Rules Team Rulings"]Effects that end combat and then do something else after combat (all in the
single resolution of the effect) will fizzle if combat doesn't end or if a
new combat is started. (Changes: Rotschreck followed by Fast Reaction or
Psyche! will nullify the torpor effect.) Note that this doesn't apply to
end combat and untap effects - the untap effect is not delayed to after
combat (see Majesty ruling above).
From rulebook: Rotschreck is played when the attempt to use aggravated damage is announced, during the strike announcement phase (before any damage prevention can be played). It can be played after the other strike is announced, however.
So i beleive there can be scenario: acting minion use aggravated damage and some player in table play Rotschreck to sent reacting vampire in torpor,can reacting vampire play Mayesty + Psyche to be unlocked,or him cannot chose strike?
> beslin wrote:
> [So i beleive there can be scenario: acting minion use aggravated damage and some player in table play Rotschreck to sent reacting vampire in torpor,can reacting vampire play Mayesty + Psyche to be unlocked,or him cannot chose strike?
>
When Rotschreck is played, combat ends. During the resolution of Rotschreck, you can play cards that interrupt it, such as Telepathic Tracking, Psyche!, Fast Reaction etc. If that doesn't happen, combat is over. The other minion then doesn't get the impulse to play their strike, because combat is over.
Rotschreck can be played after both strikes are chosen though, even if it's being played on the acting minion's strike. www.vekn.net/card-rulings/card-rulings-p-to-z
Rotschreck is played when the attempt to use aggravated damage is announced, during the strike announcement phase (before any damage prevention can be played). It can be played after the other strike is announced, however. [LSJ 19990217]
So I (acting) could shoot you with my Ivory Bow, you could play Majesty, and then someone couuld play Rotschreck against me. This may be useful for you to cycle your Majesty - but the untap effect is irrelevant, because combat has ended during the choosing of strikes. Your Majesty never resolved, so the untap effect never happens - that happens at strike resolution, not the play of the card. By the time your Majesty resolves, it's too late to play Rotschreck.