Taste of Vitae,Disarm, Psyche,Telepathic Tracking are the most frequently played cards after the combat.
A rare situation is that both players in that window want to play cards that do not allow playing another card(example disarm vs taste of vitae),but if that happens, who really has the advantage?
I am also interested in the following 3 cards and their effect on the 4 listed combat cards: Terror Frenzy,Death Seeker,Yawp Court.
Q1: Terror Frenzy(sup): I suppose it never has an effect Psyche,because with Psyche start new combat,but what with other 3. I suppose if Taste of Vitae and Disarm play after press to continue,they cost add blood,but if played after CE they dont need to pay add blood right? and TT(sup) probably always cost because this card continue current combat right?
Q2: Death Seeker:(A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round. Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.)
card text said 1 DS each round,does that mean DS never can cancel 4 listed card above? but if can in whu round counted DS is played,in round before(example disarm)or round after?
Q3: Yawp Court:(part of text: If the acting vampire is still ready at the end of combat, the Sabbat vampire takes 2 environmental damage,),well if acting vampire is ready but Sabbat can play Disarm,Psyche,TT,does Sabbat take 2 damage before window for these cards or after multiple combat? and can Sabbat play these cards after combat or simple Yawp Court not allow window after combat?
Q4: and now main questions,i try give some example: Acting(A)vs Reacting(R) vampire,A me strike: hs is 2 dmg, R me strike is: hs 3 dmg ,both take all damage. what now A have first impulse,he can play Taste of Vitae even if can expect to R vampire can play Disarm? or if A play Psyche,can R play Disarm? can we get some explanation about right order/impulse for these cards? and I supose to A(or R) if he want to play 3 cards: Taste of Vitae,Disarm, Psyche he can do it that in any order,right? and how resolve Psyche vs Telepathic Tracking if posible play these cards in same window with diferent vampires(i mean A play one R other card)
Yawp Court, Master, Sabbat,
Unique location. Requires a ready Sabbat vampire. When a political action is successful, before the referendum, lock this card and a ready unlocked Sabbat vampire you control to have that vampire enter combat with the acting vampire. If the acting vampire is still ready at the end of combat, the Sabbat vampire takes 2 environmental damage, and the referendum is conducted as normal.
Terror Frenzy, Combat, 1 blood, Animalism,
Frenzy. Only usable before range is determined.
[ani] Only usable during the first round of combat. This combat, the opposing minion cannot maneuver to close range, press to continue combat or use equipment.
[ANI] Combat cards cost the opposing vampire 1 additional blood this combat. A vampire can play only one Terror Frenzy at superior each combat.
Death Seeker, Combat, 1 blood, Salubri Antitribu,
A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round. Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.
Taste of Vitae, Combat
Only usable at the end of a round of combat. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor. A vampire can play only one Taste of Vitae each round. This vampire gains blood equal to the amount of blood lost by the opposing vampire to damage this round.
Disarm, Combat, Potence,
Only usable at close range at the end of a round of combat in which this vampire successfully inflicted more damage than the opposing vampire. Not usable by a vampire being burned or going to torpor.
[pot] Put this card on the opposing vampire and send that vampire to torpor. The attached vampire gets -1 strength. He or she can burn 3 blood to burn this card. A vampire can have only one Disarm.
[POT] As above, but the attached vampire gets -2 strength.
Psyche!, Combat, Celerity,
[cel] Press.
[CEL] Only usable when both combatants are still ready and combat is about to end. After this round, begin another combat with the opposing minion.
Telepathic Tracking, Combat, 1 blood, Auspex
[aus] Press, only usable to continue combat. If another round of combat occurs, this vampire gets 1 optional maneuver that round.
[AUS] Only usable when both combatants are still ready and combat would end. A new round starts instead.
- press step
- end of round of combat
- end of combat
If both players want to play cards in the same window, the active player plays/chooses first.
Q1: Not entirely sure, but
Telepathic tracking retains all "this combat" effects when it cancels the end of combat. If terror frenzy is in effect, combat cards cost extra both before and after telepathic tracking.
If terror frenzy is played, then S:CE, then taste of vitae -> I believe taste of vitae does cost extra due to terror frenzy since it is still played within that same combat. End of round of combat and end of combat are still parts of combat step.
Q2: Taste of Vitae,Disarm, Psyche,Telepathic Tracking are played during combat (at the end of a round of combat, see above). They are combat cards. As far as I know Death seeker can cancel any of them.
Q3: End of round of combat (when disarm is played) happens before End of combat. These are two separate things. Disarm is played at the end of round of combat, sends opponent to torpor. Yawp court checks situation at the end of combat, sees that opponent is not ready, yawp court does no damage.
Q4: When players want to play cards in the same window, the active player plays first. The effect of the cards depend on the order. If active player plays taste of vitae, I believe it resolves before the non-active player can play disarm.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
> beslin wrote:
> Q1: Terror Frenzy(sup): I suppose it never has an effect Psyche,because with Psyche start new combat
>
Psyche! is played during combat, so it costs 1 more.
> beslin wrote:
> I suppose if Taste of Vitae and Disarm play after press to continue,they cost add blood,but if played after CE they dont need to pay add blood right?
>
If you mean "after a strike: combat ends", they still cost 1 more since they are played at the end of the round.
> beslin wrote:
> and TT(sup) probably always cost because this card continue current combat right?
>
Terror Frenzy doesn't care about what the other card does. If that card is played during combat, it costs 1 additional blood. That's all. So TT would cost 1 additional blood.
> beslin wrote:
> Q2: Death Seeker:(A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round. Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.)
> card text said 1 DS each round,does that mean DS never can cancel 4 listed card above?
>
There is no reason why Death Seeker wouldn't work: it cancels a combat cards as it is played. Combat cards are played during combat. Cards played at the end of a round are no exceptions.
> beslin wrote:
> but if can in whu round counted DS is played,in round before(example disarm)or round after?
>
I can't parse your question.
> beslin wrote:
> Q3: Yawp Court:(part of text: If the acting vampire is still ready at the end of combat, the Sabbat vampire takes 2 environmental damage,),well if acting vampire is ready but Sabbat can play Disarm,Psyche,TT,does Sabbat take 2 damage before window for these cards or after multiple combat?
>
Yawp Court's damage are inflicted after the end of combat. Do not mix up "strike: combat ends" that doesn't end the combat immediately, and things that happen at the end of combat.
In order: 1/ play your "end of the round" effects
1a) Disarm can be played if the condition are met. Yawp Court's damage hasn't been inflicted yet (plus it's environmental, it matters for Disarm)
1b) if you play Psyche!, once the combat ends, the vampire takes 2 damage, then a new combat starts
1c) if you play TT, a new round starts instead of the end of combat, so damage from Yawp Court isn't inflicted yet. They will be inflicted at the end of combat.
> beslin wrote:
> and can Sabbat play these cards after combat or simple Yawp Court not allow window after combat?
>
You can't play combat cards outside a combat. If the combat has ended, then you can't play them anymore.
> beslin wrote:
> Q4: and now main questions,i try give some example: Acting(A)vs Reacting(R) vampire,A me strike: hs is 2 dmg, R me strike is: hs 3 dmg ,both take all damage. what now A have first impulse,he can play Taste of Vitae even if can expect to R vampire can play Disarm?
>
A can play all his cards before B has the impulse, as usual.
> beslin wrote:
> if A play Psyche,can R play Disarm?
>
Yes. Psyche! says that a new combat will start after this one. But there is still time to play cards before combat ends.
> beslin wrote:
> can we get some explanation about right order/impulse for these cards? and I supose to A(or R) if he want to play 3 cards: Taste of Vitae,Disarm, Psyche he can do it that in any order,right?
>
Correct.
> beslin wrote:
> how resolve Psyche vs Telepathic Tracking if posible play these cards in same window with diferent vampires(i mean A play one R other card)
>
You can't play Psyche! after a Telepathic Tracking has been played, since the combat is no longer ending.
You can play Telepathic Tracking after Psyche! has been played. Psyche! queues a new combat, but TT makes the first combat continue. So the first combat will continue, and the extra combat created by Psyche! will never take place (it is "disrupted" by TT).
EDIT : removed that last sentence
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Please note also that you can play Taste of Vitae, Disarm, and Telepathic Tracking in any order (they are played in same window).
> LSJ wrote:
> > This means, that I can play Tast of Vitae after superior Telepathic
> > Tracking. Correct?
> Before or after - they have the same timing window.
>
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/df2P8YHZex8/mGCmsxDjI_YJ
This means that Telepathic Tracking doesn't start the next round right away.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
[[ beslin igor wrote: Q2: Death Seeker:(A vampire can play only one Death Seeker each round. Cancel a combat card played by the opposing minion as it is played, and its cost is not paid.)
card text said 1 DS each round,does that mean DS never can cancel 4 listed card above?
There is no reason why Death Seeker wouldn't work: it cancels a combat cards as it is played. Combat cards are played during combat. Cards played at the end of a round are no exceptions.
beslin igor wrote: but if can in whu round counted DS is played,in round before(example disarm)or round after?
I can't parse your question. ]]
I understand now,thanks Ankha! I want to clarify my question.
round 1,after combat A vampire play(example) Taste of Vitae,B vampire play Death Seeker to cancel Taste of Vitae,round 2 start. me question be does DS count is played in r1 or r2,but now understand,Taste of Vitae(and other 3 cards whu is part my main question) count is played in r1,so in r2 i can play another DS
> beslin wrote:
>
> I understand now,thanks Ankha! I want to clarify my question.
> round 1,after combat A vampire play(example) Taste of Vitae,B vampire play Death Seeker to cancel Taste of Vitae,round 2 start. me question be does DS count is played in r1 or r2,but now understand,Taste of Vitae(and other 3 cards whu is part my main question) count is played in r1,so in r2 i can play another DS
>
Obviously rounds 1 and 2 are separate combat rounds. You can play one death seeker in each round.. I don't understand what is the problem.
Note that if you cancel a combat card with death seeker, opponent can simply play another such card, unless the card explicitly says you can only play one such card each round (like immortal grapple or taste of vitae). The canceled card counts as having been played.
Smoking craters tell no tales.
—Tex talks Battletech
I think that Igor was under the impression that Taste of Vitae was played between round 1 and 2, and therefore Death Seeker also played between round 1 and round 2.
This is of couse wrong, Taste of Vitae and Death Seeker canceling it are both played at the end of the round 1.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
From this link Ankha answer how you cannot play TT or RR after Psyche:
www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78241-relentless-reaper-vs-blissful-agony-and-scheduled-combat-rulings-ambiguity?start=0
> Ankha wrote:
> Bonus: Can you play a Relentless Reaper after Psyche?
>
You cannot play Relentless Reaper in response to Psyche! since the window for playing Psyche! is after the window for playing Relentless Reaper. "is about to end" is later than "would end".[/quote]
Correct on both points.
> Nauro wrote:
>
> Is this 2011 post correct?
>
It is no longer correct. Psyche! and Telepathic Tracking now have different windows. You cannot play Telepathic Tracking once the "would end" window is closed. Psyche! is played in the "about to end" window, which occurs after.
I'll update that topic for easier reference.
> Nauro wrote:
> Or no, if the part about scheduled combats applies to RR.
>
> Bonus: Can you play a Relentless Reaper after Psyche?
> I would say no, but Pascal's post disagrees. Not yet an official ruling. Eager to find out the truth, and hopefully at least get a glimpse to the reasoning and the rulings that support it.
>
You cannot, it's too late.[/quote]
From july Newsletters:
Telepathic Tracking: The card is played when the combat would end, and replaces this by starting a new round. Telepathic Tracking is always played before Psyche! because Psyche! is played when combat is about to end (that is after any replacement effects).
How that work in game? if is A acting player,and him have Psyche! in hand,do A need to ask B player in combat,do you have to play Telepathic Tracking?
Probably is same answer for Relentless Reaper.
If that afect somehow window for Disarm or Taste of Vitae?
> beslin wrote:
> How that work in game? if is A acting player,and him have Psyche! in hand,do A need to ask B player in combat,do you have to play Telepathic Tracking?
>
Yes, as always. The same way you would ask the opponent if they had any pre-range cards to play before you can play your maneuver as an acting Methuselah.
> beslin wrote:
> If that afect somehow window for Disarm or Taste of Vitae?
>
No.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > beslin wrote:
> > How that work in game? if is A acting player,and him have Psyche! in hand,do A need to ask B player in combat,do you have to play Telepathic Tracking?
> >
> Yes, as always. The same way you would ask the opponent if they had any pre-range cards to play before you can play your maneuver as an acting Methuselah.
>
> > beslin wrote:
> > If that afect somehow window for Disarm or Taste of Vitae?
> >
> No.
>
we get one new cards with efect "combat would end" and start new round instead:
Telepathic Tracking,Relentless Reaper and new card Hunting the Quarry.
sory whu i back again this maybe not totaly clear question.
so acting vampire have Psyche! in hand,want to play it,but with disciplines what his oposing vampire have,him suspect how maybe B player have one of these 3 cards.
is very confusing,did vampire A need to ask if B vampire want to play one of these 3 cards or not,or totaly give impulse to player B?
if is answer to totaly give impulse to player B,so B can play Taste of Vitae(after that him can replace cards with efect combat would end),then impulse pass to player A again,can player A play Psyche! now,or again need to pass impulse to see if player B have cards with text combat would end?
also when player A 1st time give impulse to B,then B can play Psyche!,and A lose oportuniti to play it.
sory but is that very confusing rule,and playing game before 2 days,I also see how is rule unclear to other players too.
Can we get a clearer explanation?
Yes, A needs to ask if anyone wants to play any “combat would end” effects before they can go ahead with playing a “combat is about to end” effect. They are two different windows which cannot be skipped if any player wants to play an effect in them… needs to be handled similarly to e.g. Direct Intervention and Eagle’s Sight
A normally always has the first opportunity to play an effect in every window.
Per game mechanics you would need to pass and not use the impulse much more, but for it to be practical and follow the spirt of the rules the game is played by asking if anyone wants to use a specific “less common” time window, which when used doesn’t mean it can be used to rob the previous player the opportunity to play an effect in a latter time window by skipping to it or to circumvent the need to follow the sequencing rule. There is no gotcha mechanics in vtes.
www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78241-relentless-reaper-vs-blissful-agony-and-scheduled-combat-rulings-ambiguity#98317
> inm8 wrote:
> Yes, A needs to ask if anyone wants to play any “combat would end” effects before they can go ahead with playing a “combat is about to end” effect. They are two different windows which cannot be skipped if any player wants to play an effect in them… needs to be handled similarly to e.g. Direct Intervention and Eagle’s Sight
> A normally always has the first opportunity to play an effect in every window.
>
> Per game mechanics you would need to pass and not use the impulse much more, but for it to be practical and follow the spirt of the rules the game is played by asking if anyone wants to use a specific “less common” time window, which when used doesn’t mean it can be used to rob the previous player the opportunity to play an effect in a latter time window by skipping to it or to circumvent the need to follow the sequencing rule. There is no gotcha mechanics in vtes.
>
> www.vekn.net/forum/rules-questions/78241-relentless-reaper-vs-blissful-agony-and-scheduled-combat-rulings-ambiguity#98317
>
so,A need to ask B if B have in hand something “combat would end”,if B say NO, then A can play Psyche!,correct?
B cannot for example play Taste of Vitae,and then replace something what “combat would end”
> beslin wrote:
> so,A need to ask B if B have in hand something “combat would end”,if B say NO, then A can play Psyche!,correct?
> B cannot for example play Taste of Vitae,and then replace something what “combat would end”
>
Correct