rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad

Ideas for crypt Sabbat cards

66 messages from 18 participants · 09 August 2011 – 17 August 2011 · vekn.net/forum
the topic on the V:EKN forum

Inyor

Hi, I present several ideas for expansion Sabbat crypt cards: img836.imageshack.us/img836/5228/adaninfernalhunter.jpg img89.imageshack.us/img89/5060/aliceltu.jpg img268.imageshack.us/img268/3943/amandatv.jpg img694.imageshack.us/img694/6893/amaroo.jpg img688.imageshack.us/img688/6373/amyford.jpg img38.imageshack.us/img38/1928/austinwells.jpg img835.imageshack.us/img835/2683/beatrixx.jpg img24.imageshack.us/img24/1792/bergv.jpg img29.imageshack.us/img29/603/beryl.jpg img853.imageshack.us/img853/6314/carles.jpg img585.imageshack.us/img585/7124/chrys.jpg img851.imageshack.us/img851/1809/connectedtothemadness.jpg img7.imageshack.us/img7/7406/damek.jpg img40.imageshack.us/img40/9537/danielue.jpg img846.imageshack.us/img846/5880/danielac.jpg img691.imageshack.us/img691/5305/dascotthousandarms.jpg img855.imageshack.us/img855/91/deanvl.jpg img855.imageshack.us/img855/680/eloisep.jpg img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg img855.imageshack.us/img855/8522/flaviafratelli.jpg img64.imageshack.us/img64/1164/frederickwald.jpg img684.imageshack.us/img684/3281/fredyr.jpg img577.imageshack.us/img577/953/guillermotoro.jpg img171.imageshack.us/img171/7871/ildaras.jpg img593.imageshack.us/img593/1100/irmebach.jpg img683.imageshack.us/img683/8297/jenare.jpg img38.imageshack.us/img38/6977/kanira.jpg img810.imageshack.us/img810/8119/ladybingqing.jpg img811.imageshack.us/img811/8269/ladymaria.jpg img839.imageshack.us/img839/7426/lipsxv.jpg img197.imageshack.us/img197/6826/littlelinda.jpg img3.imageshack.us/img3/3498/lordofmadness.jpg img600.imageshack.us/img600/9008/lorraines.jpg img600.imageshack.us/img600/6578/luciacortes.jpg img694.imageshack.us/img694/6370/madcarrion.jpg img155.imageshack.us/img155/1962/marianne.jpg img194.imageshack.us/img194/1401/mariusthegambler.jpg img841.imageshack.us/img841/9728/mattivanek.jpg img508.imageshack.us/img508/9963/mintw.jpg img31.imageshack.us/img31/1585/monroee.jpg img33.imageshack.us/img33/3397/mrxi.jpg img96.imageshack.us/img96/8416/nikx.jpg img153.imageshack.us/img153/8827/oceanemourchois.jpg img832.imageshack.us/img832/7246/peterdb.jpg img812.imageshack.us/img812/4807/plaguedoctor.jpg img823.imageshack.us/img823/2940/redskullk.jpg img580.imageshack.us/img580/9128/rottedgentleman.jpg img687.imageshack.us/img687/8508/samaelfergus.jpg img20.imageshack.us/img20/3443/samusred.jpg img856.imageshack.us/img856/3522/sandraw.jpg img10.imageshack.us/img10/4325/scorpiontn.jpg img263.imageshack.us/img263/6994/shanon.jpg img225.imageshack.us/img225/3204/teetho.jpg img14.imageshack.us/img14/9710/thehillq.jpg img43.imageshack.us/img43/75/tommercer.jpg img804.imageshack.us/img804/5003/trevor.jpg img4.imageshack.us/img4/7546/tristann.jpg img837.imageshack.us/img837/6934/varvarakoroleva.jpg Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Kraus

//whistle Holy crap, the consistency in the illustrations is well done! You know all of the artists? I'd love to have a .zip file of all of the vampires, preferably sorted by clan too. Someone else can comment on the game balance, but I really love the looks of them. "Oh, to the Hades with the manners! He's a complete bastard, and calling him that insults bastards everywhere!" -Nalia De-Arnise garourimgazette.wordpress.com/ www.vekn.net/forum-guidelines

Amenophobis

Well, yes, the art is outstanding. Gines, you should contact those artists ASAP! pckvtes.wordpress.com

Inyor

Hi, the cards have been created for a contest Cardmaker future, Because I have looked for the best iustraciones. All artists are on this site: www.deviantart.com If you put in google the name of the illustrator + deviantart you will locate his/her site, for example: deviantart lolita_art This is the link,file of all of the vampires sorted by clan www.megaupload.com/?d=PZ1OAWJC Camarilla Prince of Jaen

KevinM

First, let me say that I'd like to take Alice out on a date. She can suck on me anytime she needs to. Yeah, I said it. Lord Of Madness might be undercosted, I'll playtest it when the time comes. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Count Orlok

These are fantastic. There really seems to be enough impetus to craft a new set for us loyal devotees. Keep up the good work. Baron of Berkeley

Karo

Awesome work ) In printing for casual gamin Also few changes suggested: Amanda ; 1 pool Tristan; same text as Alejandro Aguirre Marius; on a tie? Dame; superior Thanatosis Guillermo; 1 blood klubtitanatlas.hr/ former NC for Croatia

Boris The Blade

What you meant for the Connected is probably "Slave: Unique Malkavian Antitribu". Since they are themselves, one of them alone is enough to fulfill th Slave requirement and I don't think that was the idea. It requires a bit of rule bending, though, since th Slave trait is supposed to be followed by a Clan alone. Either make them Pander or update the Slave rule a bit to fit them in.

Pendargon

Very nice work, awesome design, and above all, most of the vampires seem nice and balanced. Good work!

Pendargon

I've seen them all now, and his is my comment again : Good work! These are vampires i feel need additional work : img263.imageshack.us/img263/6994/shanon.jpg I feel that her ability needs to work in referendums you call, not all referendums. We do not want improved Lutz, this time with dom/OBF on tables. img593.imageshack.us/img593/1100/irmebach.jpg He, i feel, need at least basic animalism, otherwise i feel he will rarely see any play as a Tzimitze. Also, thematically, since Berlin is a Ventrue stronghold, he should have his conditional +1 bleed against them, not Tremere. img810.imageshack.us/img810/8119/ladybingqing.jpg Text needs more work. Does she put Sup, or inf Shambler into play? By the rules, it will be inferior version, but i think you wanted to make it superior. img197.imageshack.us/img197/6826/littlelinda.jpg Too strong. Text too strong, PRE totally overpowered. img194.imageshack.us/img194/1401/mariusthegambler.jpg Nice idea, but his special ability takes too long to play out, and i suspect it is not amusing after first two times. img29.imageshack.us/img29/603/beryl.jpg Too powefull text on a 7-cap with 2 votes and those disciplines (outferior dom, with all that?). Needs rework, or no text at all, imho. img846.imageshack.us/img846/5880/danielac.jpg Too strong text, make it last until the end of your current minion phase. img855.imageshack.us/img855/91/deanvl.jpg Remove the -1 penalty on strength, otherwise the poor scarecrow will never see play. He has 4 inferior disciplines already for a 5-cap. img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg Imho, too good discipline spread. FOR or THA and/or pro has to go. Take this cum grano salis, this are just my superficial impressions. Great work, great art, great design. Keep it up!

Mael

Very nice work. I really like the art and as a whole they're interesting and thematic. A couple of minor questions are 1) Why group 6 instead of group 5? and 2) Do you not like the black hand? Apart from that, on balance, cost and wording issues Amanda Might be better if her ability required burning blood instead of pool to use it. As printed, I think she's overcost (compare to Melinda Galbraith for example) Amaroo Too expensive for someone with no title or ability. (compare with any other 8 cap Brujah or !Brujah from group 3 onwards) Beatrix I like her, but maybe make her ability "during your discard phase" to prevent her regaining the blood during the same turn, and to prevent her using her ability during combat. I'm not sure which of these is more balanced as this is a fairly unique ability so difficult to cost, so maybe you prefer it work during combat. Beryl Initially seems a bit on the cheap side, but the fact that she has only basic presence is probably enough to make up for this. Carles I don't think the text works well as written. Replace the second "during" with "for". During your untap phase, if you control the edge, Carles can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed for the turn. I'm not sure if he's the right cost as it's difficult to know what that ability is worth. Connected to the madness I like the concept, think it's well priced and balanced, but I just don't like the name, sorry. Dame I don't think her ability is worth it for a 9 cap with no title, no other ability, and only basic level of the discipline that she gets a discount on. Also, why does she only have Thanatosis at basic? All the other vampires who get a discount on a particular discipline have the discipline at superior. (Compare with Izhim abd Azrael or Una for cost) Daniel At that cost and discipline level, he should be an Archbishop. Daniela has too few disciplines for a 7 cap with what would normally be an effectively blank text box. Dascot Thousand Arms He would be much better as an 8 cap with superior Animilism (and maybe 1 vote or an extra minor discipline depending on how you price his ability) Dean The ability text should read Dean can enter combat with a younger vampire as a D action. (ie, add the words "as a"). Apart from that, I think the -1 strength, combined with his only basic level disciplines makes him too difficult to play. Estrella Shadow I like her. Very nice thematic ability, well balanced and priced. My only minor niggle with this card is that the wording on the ability seems a bit unwieldy. I'm not sure how to clean it up though. Flavia Fratelli Should have 1 less point of disciplines for an 8 cap archbishop with no ability or drawback. (compare Sobayifa, Polly Kay Fisher or Lukas, or compare Falhu Shibaba for an 8 cap Magaji with 9 points of disciplines and a drawback) I've only looked at the first 20 in detail at the moment, the others of them all seem correctly balanced. I'll probably review the others later this evening or tomorrow.

Mael

> Pendargon wrote: > img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg > > Imho, too good discipline spread. FOR or THA and/or pro has to go. > She is an 11 cap. Fakir al Sidi has got all 3 of those disciplines at superior already, albeit without any title.

Lech

> Inyor wrote: > > Warning: Spoiler! > > Hi, I present several ideas for expansion Sabbat crypt cards: > > img836.imageshack.us/img836/5228/adaninfernalhunter.jpg > img89.imageshack.us/img89/5060/aliceltu.jpg > img268.imageshack.us/img268/3943/amandatv.jpg > img694.imageshack.us/img694/6893/amaroo.jpg > img688.imageshack.us/img688/6373/amyford.jpg > img38.imageshack.us/img38/1928/austinwells.jpg > img835.imageshack.us/img835/2683/beatrixx.jpg > img24.imageshack.us/img24/1792/bergv.jpg > img29.imageshack.us/img29/603/beryl.jpg > img853.imageshack.us/img853/6314/carles.jpg > img585.imageshack.us/img585/7124/chrys.jpg > img851.imageshack.us/img851/1809/connectedtothemadness.jpg > img7.imageshack.us/img7/7406/damek.jpg > img40.imageshack.us/img40/9537/danielue.jpg > img846.imageshack.us/img846/5880/danielac.jpg > img691.imageshack.us/img691/5305/dascotthousandarms.jpg > img855.imageshack.us/img855/91/deanvl.jpg > img855.imageshack.us/img855/680/eloisep.jpg > img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg > img855.imageshack.us/img855/8522/flaviafratelli.jpg > img64.imageshack.us/img64/1164/frederickwald.jpg > img684.imageshack.us/img684/3281/fredyr.jpg > img577.imageshack.us/img577/953/guillermotoro.jpg > img171.imageshack.us/img171/7871/ildaras.jpg > img593.imageshack.us/img593/1100/irmebach.jpg > img683.imageshack.us/img683/8297/jenare.jpg > img38.imageshack.us/img38/6977/kanira.jpg > img810.imageshack.us/img810/8119/ladybingqing.jpg > img811.imageshack.us/img811/8269/ladymaria.jpg > img839.imageshack.us/img839/7426/lipsxv.jpg > img197.imageshack.us/img197/6826/littlelinda.jpg > img3.imageshack.us/img3/3498/lordofmadness.jpg > img600.imageshack.us/img600/9008/lorraines.jpg > img600.imageshack.us/img600/6578/luciacortes.jpg > img694.imageshack.us/img694/6370/madcarrion.jpg > img155.imageshack.us/img155/1962/marianne.jpg > img194.imageshack.us/img194/1401/mariusthegambler.jpg > img841.imageshack.us/img841/9728/mattivanek.jpg > img508.imageshack.us/img508/9963/mintw.jpg > img31.imageshack.us/img31/1585/monroee.jpg > img33.imageshack.us/img33/3397/mrxi.jpg > img96.imageshack.us/img96/8416/nikx.jpg > img153.imageshack.us/img153/8827/oceanemourchois.jpg > img832.imageshack.us/img832/7246/peterdb.jpg > img812.imageshack.us/img812/4807/plaguedoctor.jpg > img823.imageshack.us/img823/2940/redskullk.jpg > img580.imageshack.us/img580/9128/rottedgentleman.jpg > img687.imageshack.us/img687/8508/samaelfergus.jpg > img20.imageshack.us/img20/3443/samusred.jpg > img856.imageshack.us/img856/3522/sandraw.jpg > img10.imageshack.us/img10/4325/scorpiontn.jpg > img263.imageshack.us/img263/6994/shanon.jpg > img225.imageshack.us/img225/3204/teetho.jpg > img14.imageshack.us/img14/9710/thehillq.jpg > img43.imageshack.us/img43/75/tommercer.jpg > img804.imageshack.us/img804/5003/trevor.jpg > img4.imageshack.us/img4/7546/tristann.jpg > img837.imageshack.us/img837/6934/varvarakoroleva.jpg > Adan is too big and his special is not good, he wouldn't be used much. Overcosted. Alice is boring !Ventrue, obf at inferior make her decent for obf DOM s&b. not bad. Amanda is overcosted. Useless special. Presence helps, but g2 do it better. Amaroo is overcosted. Out of clan OBT seems like a waste. Useless. Amy is good, even very good. Staple vampire in AUS PRE torries. Austin is great 4 cap. and means great daring the dawn for 6. Beatrix ability sound costly, but she is good vampire regardless. Berg have DOM and ability for agg hands, could find some use. Beryl with innate unique title and build in freak for younger is great vampire. Carles is meh Chrys is decent. Connected is odd. Dame sucks. Daniel is overcosted. Daniela sucks. Dascot is not that bad, but bad anyway. Dean innate rush might be useful, but -1 strength and lack of or or (to play thrown gate or aids from bats or swallowed) make him subpar. Eloise is good 6 cap. Estrella would be first sabbat 11 cap worth using, special is neat, disciplines are sound. Looks like flavia have too much disciplines. Otherwise she is !Nos, and dont have Frederic is bog standard 5 cap. Good. Fredy is good vampire. owns. Guilermo sucks. There are better vampires than ildaras. Imre is overcosted. Jenare is great vampire, sadly she is city gangrel Kanira is overcosted and lack something to make her worth playing. Lady is too big to be played. Maria is decent vampire. Group 2 is way better anyway for PRE lasombra. Lips is great vampire. Linda is good vampire. Burning weenies is good ability. Lord of madness is good vampire, ability to move blood is strong. Lor chimestry is out of place, useless. Lucia sounds fun. Mad carrion is not bad. Marrianne is nos. Marius is fun vampire to use, like his special. Matt is decent. Mint abbility is overprice, but can be handy. Monroe is good. X can find some use. Pro nossies ? earth meld + intercept ... didn't gangrel have it better ? Nikx is too big. special is useless. Oceane is bit too pricy, another vamp for . didnt g2 do it better ? Peter... 8 cap, no useful out of clan, on the other hand build in path, could find some use. Plague doctor is great. Red skull sucks. Canceling combat ends is nice, but 2 blood and 10 cap ? really ? Samael is very good, possibly too good. Samus is very good. Better selena. Prisci,+1 bleed and superior in clan make her good vampire. Conditional rush for sucky 9 cap with no other special ? Useless. Shanon is great, her special, would make sabbat vote deck a choice. Teeth is not bad. Hill will see as much play as mitru. Tom is good, nice special. Trevor is overcosted. Tristan is not good. Varva, not bad, but i would expect more. Overall nice art. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

AaronC

My God, that art is amazing. It's clan-appropriate and everything!

AaronC

Samael Fergus = floppyzedolphin sans beard & locks?

Pascal Bertrand

It's been a long time now .. I think I wonder what I'd look like without it. I'm pretty sure I'd feel cold

Pendargon

> Mael wrote: > > > Pendargon wrote: > > img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg > > > > Imho, too good discipline spread. FOR or THA and/or pro has to go. > > > She is an 11 cap. Fakir al Sidi has got all 3 of those disciplines at superior already, albeit without any title. > Sure, but she has an in-built bleed for 3, 4 votes, and her other disciplines are DOM and OBT and POT. Now, in my book, DOM OBT beats ANI abo any day. It's the corelation of disciplines, she has both access to easy multiacting via freak drives, Magic of the smiths/rutors, strong political/stealt/bleed angle, and can even wreck your face with POT/FOR/THA combat paired with aggravated hands from pro. She does everything a bit too well. She might be next Stanislava (which can fight if needed), are we sure we want that?

Juggernaut1981

Adan I might be tempted to remove the unlimtied +bleed and change it to either +2 bleed against a Methuselah who controls and Infernal Vampire or +2 damage with strikes against Infernal vampires. Nice art though. Alice I don't think I can show my wife that card, the drool marks might be obvious. Solid enough !Ven. Needless to say... I'd tap that... in the ready region of course, just before declaring an action! (I hope that was a smooth recovery...) Amanda That card text is crippling... burn 2 blood I would consider but 2 pool??? Discipline spread is good, like the title. Artwork is good. Amaroo Interesting disciplines... and ... I think I'm tired of seeing major vampires with in-clan inferior disciplines. I'd be willing to swap the or one level of to get . Amy Ford Solid. I like it. Austin Nice enough, don't like the "Spare member of the Gorillaz" artwork though. Beatrix Interesting card text, I'd pay the extra pool to have that text. I like the artwork. Berg Roids of the month club. Feels a bit over-powered with the and +bleed but then again he is a 9cap... line-ball I'd say. Beryl Nice, but change it to "Once during your minion phase Beryl may burn 1 blood to untap a younger vampire you control". Otherwise she's a bit too cross-table meddling... Like the art theme for the card but the style is a bit too anime for my taste. Carles Nice enough text, I think it's fairly balanced. Like the artwork. Chys Nice. Good solid vampire. Connected to the Madness Bad name. It should be easy to say... Kindred Madman for instance. Need to tweak the text (below). Good artwork. Sabbat. Malkavian antitribu Slave. ((Name)) cannot be a Slave to a non-unique vampire. ((Name)) may tap to give another Malkavian antitribu +1 strength for the current action, only usable before combat. -1 bleed. Dame Can't see how abilities would allow you to pay less for . If it was then I see it easily... Otherwise she's just a big Nossie with Fortitude which I like. (Disciplines are out of order...) Nice artwork. Daniel There's some solid bad-ass looking Brujah. I like it. Daniela Nice, but I'd amend her text to say "until your next discard phase" or "until your next untap phase". Dascot I liiiike the art. Very good. Disciplines are a let-down. I'd have hoped for and the card text. Dean I'd swap out -1 strength for -1 bleed. Dunno about the straw-man artwork, but sure. Another City-Gangrel-Nossie. Eloise Yay, 6-cap-all-in-clan-superiors vampire. YAY! Estrella Nice idea, bad text. "Estrella may put a shadow counter on a vampire controlled by your predator or prey as a action. When a vampire with a shadow counter declares an action, they transfer 1 blood to Estrella. +2 bleed". I think the +2 bleed is overkill, that ability alone has serious steroids on it, especially with . Like the artwork. Flavia More of the City-Gangrel-Nossies. Out-of-clan is interesting. Love the artwork. Frederick Nice. Artwork is nice too. Fredy Interesting art, solid vamp Guillermo Greta gets to reduce bleed for 1 blood, and this guy gets 1 damage for 2 blood? I'd prefer it to be "When a younger vampire or ally attempted to bleed you, (before blocks/after resolving the action) Guillermo may burn 1 blood to deal 1 damage to the minion." Nice art. Ildaras Tzim with and you think he needs a little and . The guy is pretty darn badass as it is. I'd trade off the or to get something like +1 intercept or +1 strength... Imre Sure... ... sure art is cool, but I dunno... no animalism retainers, no untaps, no Army of Rats just not sure what to do with him. Beyond the obvious Horrid Form + IG + BAD THINGS (tm). Jenare Nice. Kanira Sure, City Gangrel need some kind of defence other than Askinya. Lady Bing Qing She plays with dead people, and I love it. Text needs a little tweak (Zombie Ally or retainer she could recuit) but other than that... fun gal to have around. Lady Maria Lots of and turning up on these Lasombra, suppose the bigger ones always did do politics. Nice art. Lips Hehehe silly looking crazy people. TICK! Little Linda Fun and I LOVE the artwork. "Don't do that, Bear doesn't like it... *RAWR*" Lord of Madness I think it should be an Epithet. "Jacques, Lord of the Madness". I don't know about 3 blood, I could see it being 2 blood (like Menele). Good artwork. Lorraine Who in the WHAT NOW? Nah, she's sitting in the box for a LONG time now. Lucia Cortes Hehehehe I like her. Nice artwork. Mad Carrion I think he should probably have but other than that... nice. Like the art. Marianne More Nos with ... they seem to be tough or play with Gangrel in this collection. Not that I mind, but still. Like the artwork alot actually. Marius Maybe make it +bleed or -bleed... OR if you don't WIN Marius loses blood. (removes the problem of draws). Matt Ivanek Sure, ... seems like the Malks got violent-crazy recently. Mint Why oh WHY am I paying 2 blood for an additional when I have ??? "Once per combat, Mint may burn 2 blood to get an additional strike that does not count against the limit to additional strikes." That would make it worth it. Monroe I'm happy to not see too much on the smaller vamps. Nice art. Mr X He's happy to see you, and he'd like to show you with his knife... nice. Nikx I don't know if I'd use her ability at 2 blood. At 1 blood, I'd consider it. Oceane Mourchois Nice enough, I miss see and on !Tor. Peter I'm yet to really see great reasons (other than thematic) for grafting on ... but nice enough vampire. Like the artwork. Plague Doctor I'll trade Priscus to get . Red Skull Seems a little underpriced, but fairly solid. Again with the protean... Rotted Gentleman Oh yes please! I don't know if I understand the (especially since plenty of the others are packing ... he'd seem like the right person to be teaching to the younger ones...) but very gooooood. Samael Nice vampire. I'd tap that... in my ready region. Samus Disciplines out of order, but YAY 6cap with all-in-clan-superiors! YAY! Sandra Malks can't bleed enough without built in +bleed??? Scorpion I'd change it to "Titled Camarilla vampire" but still very good... My kind of Brujah. Shanon "When a referendum called by a vampire you control other than Shanon passes Shanon may burn a blood to give you 1 pool from the blood bank." would potentially be better. Bit tired of the "lots of black leather". I got enough BDSM Brujah with Tura Vaughn. Teeth Awww he's so leg-munchingly adorable! The Hill WOW. AND cheap ??? This Hill will destroy stuff... regularly. Love the "child of Conan and Jeff Martin of The Tea Party Band" look... Tom Mercer I'd change it to "Tom may recruit an ally or retainer from your ashheap that requires or costing an additional blood or pool once per turn." Trevor Solid. I'd play that vamp. Tristan Mariel Lady Thunder Mk2. "When a minion you control is about to enter combat, you may tap Tristan to deal 2 damage to every minion and retainer in the combat." would be a better text. Still don't know if I'd be paying 7 pool for him though... Varvara Varavara gets Ponticulus and the Ankara Citadel... Holy crap YES! Awe for HALF PRICE???? GOLDEN! Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Mael

> Non-existant user wrote: > What you meant for the Connected is probably "Slave: Unique Malkavian Antitribu". Since they are themselves, one of them alone is enough to fulfill th Slave requirement and I don't think that was the idea. > An alternative would be to drop the slave trait, and instead give them wording similar to Aabbt Kindred; "... cannot perform actions unless you control a ready unique Malkavian Antitribu". > Pendargon wrote: > > > Mael wrote: > > > > > Pendargon wrote: > > > img823.imageshack.us/img823/2695/estrellashadow.jpg > > > > > > Imho, too good discipline spread. FOR or THA and/or pro has to go. > > > > > She is an 11 cap. Fakir al Sidi has got all 3 of those disciplines at superior already, albeit without any title. > > > Sure, but she has an in-built bleed for 3, 4 votes, and her other disciplines are DOM and OBT and POT. > Now, in my book, DOM OBT beats ANI abo any day. > It's the corelation of disciplines, she has both access to easy multiacting via freak drives, Magic of the smiths/rutors, strong political/stealt/bleed angle, and can even wreck your face with POT/FOR/THA combat paired with aggravated hands from pro. > > She does everything a bit too well. She might be next Stanislava (which can fight if needed), are we sure we want that? > Well, put it this way, the last time I saw an 11 cap played that didn't have superior Presence was around 7 sets ago. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'd need to see it in action before I'll be convinced. My further thoughts on the other cards: Guillermo Toro By my reading, as printed, he can burn 4 blood to inflict 2 damage, or 6 for 3 damage, is this deliberate? If not, or if I'm reading it wrong, than I think 1 blood would be better. Ildaras Is there any reason for the phrasing of this card text not to be copied from "Little Tailor of Prague"? When Ildaras recruits an ally or employs a retainer, the cost is reduced by one blood or pool. Imre Bach Should be a 7 cap. Even as a 7 cap, his weak ability and lack of Animilism will probably keep him from seeing much play. Jenare A minor niggle only, Is there any reason not to simply say "+1 stealth" on the card instead of that whole sentence? I know it's copied from Jost, but many vampires since then have been printed with a simple "+1 stealth". Kanira She is missing the group symbol, I presume this is an error? 8 points of disciplines and no ability would be more appropriate for a 7 cap (compare Lord Vauxhall or Marge Khan). Most similar cost non-titled vampires have some ability text. Lady Bing Qing As Pendargon already said about the text. Also, if you look at the cost of Antonio d`Erlette, he get's his ability basically for free. Lady Bing Qing is paying quite a lot for hers as a 10 cap with no title, only 8 points of disciplines, and no other abilities. +1 bleed might be appropriate to balance it. Little Linda ".... capacity 2 or less" would be better in my opinion. It's difficult to say an appropriate cost for such an ability without testing. Lord of Madness I'm not sure on this one as this is a card that would only ever be used in a deck that was designed around it specifically. Lucia Cortes I suspect her ability should be for "Abyssal Hunter", I can't find any card called "Shadow of the Abyss". I would be inclined to make her ability work with any ally requiring Lasombra or Obtenebration (similar to Little Tailor of Prague's ability) so it could be used with future cards printed. When Lucia recruits an ally that requires Lasombra or Obtenebration, the cost is reduced by one blood or up to two pool. Also, I particularly like this artwork Mad Carrion I'm not sure about his ability. On the one hand, it doesn't help to put vampires into torpor, on the other hand, it can hurt people he can't normally damage (eg wraiths and people who have played CE). Overall I don't think he's quite worth the cost. Maybe if you dropped the blood cost from his maneuver special. Marianne Compare her to other 8 caps with +1 strength, she is missing either a point of disciplines, a minor title, or an ability. Also, her appearence is completely unacceptable for a Nosferatu Marius the Gambler Again I agree with Pendargon about this one. Possibly make it a coin toss instead, which would also answer Karo's 'tie?' question. As his ability can backfire, I'm not sure about the cost. Possibly give him a conditional benefit as well (or drop his cost and give him a conditional drawback). Mint As worded, that would count as his additional strike for the round. If this is deliberate, than I think 1 blood would be a fairer cost. Nikx Again I think 1 blood would be a fairer cost. Compare this to the abilities on other 7 cap vampires with similar amounts of disciplines and no titles. Oceane Mourchois She should be a 9 cap or have an additional ability (compare Marino Reymundo Vasquez or Rachel Brandywine) Plague Doctor I'm not sure we need another 6 cap Priscus. No real issue with this card though. Red Skull He has the stats of a 6 cap. Rotted Gentleman Starting combats with 10 cap vampires is a notoriously bad idea, so I'm not sure if his special is quite good enough. It might be. Scorpion Is too expensive for 8 points of disciplines and a conditional rush. See other 9 caps with a built in rush; Massassi and Nangila Were have no restriction, Jacques Molay and Ignazio Giovanni have a restriction but also have +1 strength. All 4 of those have as many or 1 more points of disciplines. Shanon I would suggest changing her ability to only work when ready. The Hill He is more than a little similar to Mitru the Hunter Tom Mercer He should have 1 extra point of discipline if his special can only work once each game. My recommendation is change it to once each turn or add basic Potence. Trevor McInerny Should be an Archbishop or have an additional ability. Tristan Interesting but her ability is unclear. Is it supposed to be useable in any combat or just combats involving her? I would guess the former but it should be stated. The fact that the damage doesn't happen until after the combat has ended makes her ability difficult to use effectively, so I'm not sure if it's priced correctly. Varvara Koroleva Oddly I had the same idea for an ability on a !Tremere, although I had it costing 1 blood to use and gave it a younger non-titled vampire. Nothing really to say about altering this card, just felt like sharing that. Anyway, as I said, overall I like what you've done here. The artwork is mostly good, a few I don't particularly like but no worse than on some published cards. If there's any cards I didn't mention above or in my previous post it's because I think they don't need any modification. All the above is of course just my opinion and you are free to ignore or disregard it as you wish.

Klaital

Here are my thoughts, if I didn't comment on a particular one then that one was ok. Amanda: Overcosted, should either be 9 cap or have +1 bleed. Amaroo: Overcosted, should be 7 cap. Amy: Ok, but would prefer if she wouldn't have celerity and just have flat out +1 stealth Beatrix: Overcosted, would recommend making her archbishop or priscus with flat out +1 intercept. Berg: I would make the ability only cost 1 blood, but he is about right. Carles: Too narrow special, remove the having edge requirement and make it just may burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed once per action. Dame: A bit overcosted, should have superior Thanatosis. Daniel: A bit overcosted, should be archbishop. Dascot: Overcosted, should have superior Animalism. Dean: Needs some work to be useful, I suggest giving him -1 stealth instead of strength, and superior Animalism. Estrella: Should only take 1 action to remove the counter, its a bit too harsh now. Flavia: Perhaps a bit undercosted, would likely remove the necromancy. Guillermo: A bit too weak, make the special either cost 1 blood, or inflict 2 damage, and either way, make it also work on allies. Ildaras: Too weak, I would recommend making him 8 cap and removing the two base level discplines. Imre: Overcosted. Should either be 7 cap, or have basic animalism also. Kanira: Overcosted. Should either be 7 cap or have some decent special. Lady Bing: Way overcosted, I would suggest making her priscus with +1 bleed, then she would be about right. Lord of Madness: Way overcosted, should be 8 cap. Lucia: Overcosted, should be 6 cap, Infernal is serious drawback. Mad Carrion: Overcosted, the manuever should be free. Marianne: Slightly overcosted, should be bishop or have some other minor special. Marius: Overcosted, should be 6 cap. Mint: Special is way too expensive for a vampire with superior celerity anyway, should be free optional additional strike on first round. Nikx: Overcosted, should be just flat out +1 intercept all the time. Red Skull: Overcosted, should be 6 cap. Rotted Gentleman: Is missing something, would either make him Archbishop/Priscus/Cardinal, or give him +1 strength or bleed. Scorpion: Too narrow special, should be either 'camarilla vampire' or 'titled vampire' instead of just 'prince'. Also should probably have +1 Strength. Shanon: Should steal from prey, not predator, and only be from referendums you call. Tom Mercer: Special shouldn't be once per game, but just have the 'requirements and costs apply' clause, its already 0 stealth action anyway. Trevor: Should be archbishop Tristan: Overcosted. Should either be 6 cap or have one more point in discplines. Varvara: Overcosted, should have +1 bleed.

Inyor

First thank you very much everyone for the ideas, You have given me some great ideas for editing the vampires. Mael, I chose 6 group because it is the group that following the 5 as a complement to the crypt 5 and 6, Group 5 and have enough help with the 4. Yes, I like Black Hand but I I don´t know very well and I preferer create pure Sabbat. Juggernaut1981, I like Kindred Madman for Connected to the madness ^^, you are right, we should put a name to Lord of Madness, any suggestions? and changes: Amanda: “Sabbat Cardinal: If Amanda is ready during your discard phase, Amanda may burn 2 blood to discard two additional card.” Amaroo- :: :: :: :: "Sabbat: +1 bleed" Dame: :: :: Guillermo Toro "Sabbat: If Guillermo is ready and you are being bleed by a younger vampire Guillermo may burn 1 blood to inflict 1 damage on the acting vampire, if the acting is a Ally Guillermo may burn 2 blood to inflict 1 damage on this acting minion." Irme Bach: "Sabbat Archishop of Berlin: Irme Bach gets +1 bleed when bleeding a Methuselah who controls a ready Ventrue. Little Linda: Sabbat Archbishop of Milan: As a +1 stealh action, Little Linda may burn a vampire of capacity 3 or less. Daniela- "Sabbat: As a action, Daniela may allow you take control of a younger Toreador antitribu until your next untap phase" Beatrix- "Sabbat: During your discard phase, Beatrix can burn 2 blood to get +2 intercept until your next untap phase. Carles- "Sabbat: During your untap phase, if you control the edge, Carles can burn 1 blood to get +1 bleed for the turn. Daniel: "Sabbat: Archbishop of "city"" Dean: "Sabbat: Dean can enter combat with a younger vampire as a (d)action. -1 strength" . Lorraine- Rotted Gentleman: "Sabbat: Once each round Rotted Gentleman may burn 1 blood to cancel a combat card" Scorpion: "Sabbat: Scorpion can enter combat with a Titled Camarilla vampire as a action if this action is successful Scorpion gets and aditional strike." Beryl- "Sabbat: Once during your minion phase Beryl may burn 1 blood to untap a younger vampire you control". Connected to the Madness / Kindred Madman- "Sabbat. Malkavian antitribu Slave. ((Name)) cannot be a Slave to a non-unique vampire. ((Name)) may tap to give another Malkavian antitribu +1 strength for the current action, only usable before combat. -1 bleed." Dascot thousand arms- Estrella- "Sabbat: Estrella may put a shadow counter on a vampire controlled by your predator or prey as a action. That vampire may burn the shadow conster as an action; When a vampire with a shadow counter declares an action, they transfer 1 blood to Estrella. +2 bleed". Ildaras: "Sabbat: Allies and retainers cost Ildaras 1 less blood or pool (but never less than 0 blood or pool". +1 strength. Lady Bing Qing: "Sabbat: While Lady bing Qing is ready, you may spend four transfers to search your hand or library (shuffle afterward) for a Zombie Ally or retainer she could recuit. Put that ally in play with life equal to his starting amount at superior discipline (pay cost as normal) +1 bleed" Mint- "Once per combat, Mint may burn 2 blood to get an additional strike that does not count against the limit to additional strikes." That was my original idea was I wrote it because so Nikx- "Sabbat: Once each action, Nikx may burn 1 blood to get +1 intercept and optional maneuver if the block is successful" Red Skull - ---- I reviewed the collection I noticed that there are too nosfis with protean jejeje Shanon- "Sabbat: When a referendum called by a vampire you control other than Shanon passes Shanon may burn a blood to give you 1 pool from the blood bank." Tom Mercer- "Sabbat: Tom may recruit an ally or retainer from your ashheap that requires or costing an additional blood or pool once per turn." Tristan- "Sabbat: When a minion you control is about to enter combat, you may tap Tristan to deal 2 damage to every minion and retainer in the combat." Kanira: Gruop 6 - Lucia Cortes- "Sabbat: Nocturn, Shadow of the Abyss and Abyssal Hunter cost Lucia Cortes 1 less blood or 2 less pool to employ or recruit. Infernal And this is Shadow of the Abyss: img685.imageshack.us/img685/1018/shadowoftheabyss.jpg Oceane Mourchois- Sabbat: Archbishop of Nantes: During a referendum, Oceane may burn a card that requires Obtenebration from your hand to gain two votes. +1 bleed Red Skull- The Hill- I did not know Mitru the Hunter jejeje, “Sabbat: Cards that requier Clerery cost 1 less blood to play, and before range his may burn 2 blood to sets the range for this round." Trevor McInerny- Sabbat Archbishop of "City" Kanira: “Sabbat: Karina ay search your library (shuffle afterward) for any Ally card and move that card to your hand as a +1 stealth action. Mad Carrion: After combat with Mad Carrion, the opposing VAMPIRE burn 1 blood. Mad Carrion gets an optional maneuver in the first rond of combat. Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Juggernaut1981

Just as a general thing, I know this is not a "child's theme game" but can we keep the boobs out? I dunno, I just tend to find that 'showing a lot' on CCG cards just makes it feel tacky and not dark/black/horror. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Pascal Bertrand

Dolphin Black disagrees. I think it's more about what makes a card fit in the WoD rather than what makes itnot belong to that place. Leather, darkness, fangs, pale aspect => good shiny, cute, in the daylight => not exactly the best artwork

Juggernaut1981

I understand Pascal that there are plenty of "not PG" vampire cards out there. Dolphin, Gabrielle di Righetti, etc. I just really dislike the more blatant end of it (e.g. Gabrielle) like the art that Inyor has chosen for Shadow of the Abyss. I think it could be done more effectively without having breasts front-and-centre of the artwork. Feels a bit tacky. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Juggernaut1981

Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Boris The Blade

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Just as a general thing, I know this is not a "child's theme game" but can we keep the boobs out? > What's your problem? These boobs are all out already Maybe the problem is not so much the boobs themselves than them being the only clear part of the image. Talk about a focal point...

Juggernaut1981

Yeah, its got more of a "wierd porn" feel than "boobs in art". I'm not saying I don't mind the odd boob in Art (go Picasso, Rembrandt and who-ever met that Milo chick...) but I just don't think I should have 'wierd porn' on my CCG cards. I can deal with "FWAR HOT" but if I couldn't show it to coworkers without them sniggling or being shocked... I think its a bridge too far. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Inyor

The original illustration is worse jeje: fc01.deviantart.net/fs41/f/2009/011/2/1/nightmare_by_czarnystefan.jpg But I think the illustration on the card is not porn. It represents a demon seizing prey helpless and defenseless, but if it is true that the illustration may upset someone, I will seek an alternative illustration. I like two illustration of Krindred Madmen. I don´t like the name of Lord of Madness, I had thought of a more exotic name: -Dorian -Artyom -Ender -Azad -Alaric for example... The illustration of Lord,i see too exaggerated, and reminds me too much Joker If your text is "move up 2 blood", he should be . His text is designed for Madmen Kindred are free Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Juggernaut1981

The main reason for having it as 2 blood is that it will basically make him close to a Malkavian Menele. He potentially might need some more discipline points, but I don't think you should automatically get out a minion to work with this guy's text every turn. I was tossing up between Karl and Sigmund. Tried not to head for the rediculous and crazy. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Klaital

I don't see a problem with him moving 3 blood with how much he is paying from it as apart from that ability, he is totally crap as 10 cap. Also he doesn't really have any easy ways of regaining blood, so he will dry up fairly soon.

Juggernaut1981

Don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be attempting to push the powercurve up. I really have a major problem with power-creep in a game that ostensibly is supposed to allow any grouping of vampires to compete with each other. Regarding Karl in particular... He suddenly negates the drawback of a potentially large number of non-unique vampires and can influence out those at a rate of 1 per turn (without using transfers). There are plenty of ways to pump up his blood regain rate... The Rack for starters. He'd have the ability to defend it and with all of those little Madmen around, he could hit for 4+ without playing a card. I think he's more dangerous than he seems purely because he is the star of his own deck, like the Unnamed is. Consequently, I can concede he should probably have more disciplines (maybe or or even ... at some mixture) but I don't think he should be less than a 10-cap. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Inyor

Menele has 4 disciplines at superior and 2 at inferior. This guy may has: and one of these options: 1- 2- 3- Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Klaital

> Inyor wrote: > Menele has 4 disciplines at superior and 2 at inferior. > > This guy may has: and one of these options: > > 1- > 2- > 3- > From those 3 options, I would pick Thaumaturgy.

Lech

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Don't take this the wrong way, but you seem to be attempting to push the powercurve up. I really have a major problem with power-creep in a game that ostensibly is supposed to allow any grouping of vampires to compete with each other. > > Regarding Karl in particular... > > He suddenly negates the drawback of a potentially large number of non-unique vampires and can influence out those at a rate of 1 per turn (without using transfers). There are plenty of ways to pump up his blood regain rate... The Rack for starters. He'd have the ability to defend it and with all of those little Madmen around, he could hit for 4+ without playing a card. I think he's more dangerous than he seems purely because he is the star of his own deck, like the Unnamed is. Consequently, I can concede he should probably have more disciplines (maybe or or even ... at some mixture) but I don't think he should be less than a 10-cap. > Get a grip, look at the power level of vampires from KoT first. Why sabbat should have it worse? Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Haze

KoT had powerful vampires??? I've seen the princes/justicars/ICs used, and that's about it.

Lech

> Haze wrote: > KoT had powerful vampires??? > > I've seen the princes/justicars/ICs used, and that's about it. > That's about it ? Those are vampires, and they are crazy good. What about Gerald Windham ? He is not even titled. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Juggernaut1981

**Stupid Cancel Post didn't work again** @Klaital: Explain why and not or . Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Klaital

Because thaumaturgy would at least give him some versatility with access to stuff like rutors hand and magic of the smith. Generally 10 caps without titles or multiacting possibilities don't see much use.

KevinM

> Haze wrote: > KoT had powerful vampires??? I've seen the princes/justicars/ICs used, and that's about it. > You haven't seen Lutz? Hardestat? Mary Anne Blaire? Dmitra? Gerald? Need I go on? Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Haze

> KevinM wrote: > > > Haze wrote: > > KoT had powerful vampires??? I've seen the princes/justicars/ICs used, and that's about it. > > > You haven't seen Lutz? Hardestat? Mary Anne Blaire? Dmitra? Gerald? Need I go on? > as counter evidence you list two inner circles and a justicar? huh what? I DON'T GET IT I suppose Gerald is the one exception that proves the rule

Klaital

> Haze wrote: > > > KevinM wrote: > > > > > Haze wrote: > > > KoT had powerful vampires??? I've seen the princes/justicars/ICs used, and that's about it. > > > > > You haven't seen Lutz? Hardestat? Mary Anne Blaire? Dmitra? Gerald? Need I go on? > > > as counter evidence you list two inner circles and a justicar? huh what? I DON'T GET IT > > I suppose Gerald is the one exception that proves the rule > Well the justicars, ICs, and princes are already like what, third of all the vampires in KoT? Thats lot more powerful vampires than in most sets.

Pascal Bertrand

There's a couple of others - Ariadne, Gustaphe, the DEM malks, mostly. And Andre LeRoux.

Amenophobis

Cheap Primogen like Gem Ghastly and that 4-cap Brujah. The 5-cap Tremere that can get Prince titles. Voshkov the Eye. KoT vampire are generally quite good. pckvtes.wordpress.com

Juggernaut1981

> Klaital wrote: > Because thaumaturgy would at least give him some versatility with access to stuff like rutors hand and magic of the smith. Generally 10 caps without titles or multiacting possibilities don't see much use. > Rachel Brandywine The Unnamed Cesewayo are three vampires that immediately come to mind that are fairly large cap, tend to have star-type decks built around them and can be devastating in most environments. I'd see the "Lord of Madness" + Kindred Madmen as a very dangerous combination, especially since there are a number of ways to keep pumping blood onto a star minion (Giant's Blood, HGs, Rack, Palatial Estate, etc)... and with the Lord of Madness having a "Menele" text that results in you basically buying 1 minion and bloating out most of the rest without spending pool (or spending it and gaining it back). So I'd be worried about too much multi-acting ability on such a vampire. Protean may allow him to get 'out of jail' with Earth Melds, or adding to the bruise & bleed nature of the vampire with VIC. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Lemminkäinen

Casewayo can get Rutors. But yeah, in-built three to the uncontrolled is hugely powerful. In essence you end up paying very little pool for the guy and he accelerates the rest of the crypt. OTOH splashing VIC or PRO doesn't seem very productive most of the time while I splashing Rutors and Magic of the Smith is viable, so if the wish was to make him more powerful, I don't see VIC or PRO really doing that. Especially not VIC.

Juggernaut1981

And how often do you see Cesewayo playing Rutor's Hand? Why would he ever need to because instead he can get No Secrets from the Magaji and basically never care about untap again. But the thing I want to avoid is making him super-poweful, and giving him the ability to use THA theft (and other THA tech) seems like you'd be setting him up far too well. Giving him access to a Homonculus seems dangerous but not insane. Giving him access to VIC seems to just make blocking him strictly more dangerous than taking three or four Kindred Madmen to the face... (especially if you decide to do things like use Hidden Lurker on the little nutters). Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Klaital

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > And how often do you see Cesewayo playing Rutor's Hand? Why would he ever need to because instead he can get No Secrets from the Magaji and basically never care about untap again. > > But the thing I want to avoid is making him super-poweful, and giving him the ability to use THA theft (and other THA tech) seems like you'd be setting him up far too well. Giving him access to a Homonculus seems dangerous but not insane. Giving him access to VIC seems to just make blocking him strictly more dangerous than taking three or four Kindred Madmen to the face... (especially if you decide to do things like use Hidden Lurker on the little nutters). > So in other words, you want to make him suck as much as possible? And any kind of deck that actually wants to you know, do stuff forward, wants rutors hand on Cese so he can do two actions a turn.

Inyor

Body Flare, Carrion Coffin, Claws of the Dead, Earth Meld, Form of Mist, Homunculus, Rapid Change. Chiropteran Marauder, Horrid Form, Soul Decoration!!!!, Blood Fury, Blood Rage, Magic of the Smith, Perfect Clarity, Rutor`s Hand, Wind Dance, Biothaumaturgic Experiment, Rego Motus. these are the cards that could play with these disciplines, the first you can play aggravated damage, Homunculus and Eart Meld, these last cards are perfect for perform many actions in your turn, the second you can play aggravated damage and may play Soul Decoration is a good card, the third is much "stronger" because you can play "damage cannot be prevented by cards that require Fortitude", search equipment, multiaction, anti-deflection, and prevention. You remember, if you tap 4 Kindred Madmen, Lord´s strength is +4, +torn +slam= 8 damage!! if you play blood fury... Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Juggernaut1981

Body flare, Claws of the Dead, Earth Meld, Flesh of Marble, Form of Mist, Homonculus, Rapid Change, Wolf Claws. Blood of Acid, Body Arsenal, Chiropteran Marauder, Horrid Form, Soul Decoration Blood Fury, Blood of Sandman, Blood Rage, Crimeth Inc, Flames of the Netherworld, Magic of the Smith, Perfect Clarity, Rutor's Hand, Rego Motus, Weather Control. There is a LOT of additional firepower in , but the question was never "Is THA powerful" but "Should a powerful vampire get the additional power of compared with getting or and potentially fitting into other deck types. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Klaital

I don't see him as a powerful vampire, I see him as a 10 cap with no title or multiacting capabilities and thus likely to be wallpaper that never gets played.

Juggernaut1981

And I entirely disagree with your myopic perception of this particular large-cap vampire. The Rachel Brandywine decks, the Unnamed decks and Cesewayo decks don't really 'multiact' with classic multiacting disciplines. The Unnamed and Rachel in particular run Homonculus specifically for untapping out of turn. Your bald assertion that you'd never run a deck with a 10-cap without Fortitude (basically) just highlights the narrow view you have on power in this game. Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Ankha

I'm a bit late, but first I'd like to say thumbs up for the art choice. There are some slight wording mistakes and from what I read there's already been some adjustments, so I won't comment the cards themselves (unless a new version is posted). But from a general point of view, all seemed very balanced. Great job! Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

KevinM

And I agree with your assessment. It's perfect. Oh, wait, who am I replying to? This is why to use the 'QUOTE' function when posting. Kevin M., Prince of Las Vegas "Know your enemy and know yourself; in one-thousand battles you shall never be in peril." -- Sun Tzu, *The Art of War* "Contentment...Complacency...Catastrophe!" -- Joseph Chevalier Please visit VTESville daily! vtesville.myminicity.com/ Facebook: www.facebook.com/groups/129744447064017

Suoli

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > But the thing I want to avoid is making him super-poweful, and giving him the ability to use THA theft (and other THA tech) seems like you'd be setting him up far too well. > I agree with Klaital's sentiment, if not his rhetoric. Spending 10 pool and transfers to get a free 3-cap with no superior disciplines once per turn isn't that great. 10-caps need to be pretty special before they see play. Maybe you should give him OBF and have Kindred Madmen hand out optional rushes to him in addition to the +1 strength.

Juggernaut1981

They can hand the strength to ANY !Mak (read the text carefully) AND they're Non-Unique so you can have big swarms of them like the Hordes or the Mexico Circle. Make sure you take that into account when you look at the interaction between the two. I'd still advocate that any change should be Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Suoli

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > They can hand the strength to ANY !Mak (read the text carefully) AND they're Non-Unique so you can have big swarms of them like the Hordes or the Mexico Circle. Make sure you take that into account when you look at the interaction between the two. > I did. I still think there's better and cheaper ways to buff your strength. > I'd still advocate that any change should be > You could add , , , , and and he still wouldn't be significantly more powerful in function. What makes 10-caps worth playing are the great permanent abilities, not the disciplines.

Pendargon

> Suoli wrote: > You could add , , , , and and he still wouldn't be significantly more powerful in function. What makes 10-caps worth playing are the great permanent abilities, not the disciplines. > I politely disagree with you, and i think, so do these 10-caps which i have seen regularly played for their disciplines and titles alone, and their text as a cornercase thing : Angelica, The Canonicus Ayelea, The Manipulator Lucian Nefertiti Ulugh Beg, The Watcher Lucinde Alastor Madame Guil Marcus Vitel, Rachel Brandywine Luca Italicus, Melinda Galbraith Servius Marius Pustula Unmada Alonso Petrodon And i guess, a few others...

Klaital

> Pendargon wrote: > > > Suoli wrote: > > You could add , , , , and and he still wouldn't be significantly more powerful in function. What makes 10-caps worth playing are the great permanent abilities, not the disciplines. > > > I politely disagree with you, and i think, so do these 10-caps which i have seen regularly played for their disciplines and titles alone, and their text as a cornercase thing : > > Angelica, The Canonicus > Ayelea, The Manipulator > Lucian > Nefertiti > Ulugh Beg, The Watcher > Lucinde Alastor > Madame Guil > Marcus Vitel, > Rachel Brandywine > Luca Italicus, > Melinda Galbraith > Servius Marius Pustula > Unmada > Alonso Petrodon > > And i guess, a few others... > Each of those vampires has title of at least 2 votes, most of them are princes or jusicars (hello 2nd tradition and parity shift). The whole point of where this argument started from is that the lord of madness as he is now with crap discplines, no title, no +bleed, and nothing terribly interesting to make up for those lacks, is a total wallpaper vampire. If you make him say a cardinal, he would already look much more interesting. EDIT: Well, Nefertiti and Servius don't have titles, Nefertiti has DOM and +1 bleed though (and has quite a lot of friends with dominate in the group 2 setites also), Servius imo just sucks.

Suoli

> Pendargon wrote: > > > Suoli wrote: > > You could add , , , , and and he still wouldn't be significantly more powerful in function. What makes 10-caps worth playing are the great permanent abilities, not the disciplines. > > > I politely disagree with you, and i think, so do these 10-caps which i have seen regularly played for their disciplines and titles alone, and their text as a cornercase thing : > I would include titles in the category of permanent abilities. > Rachel Brandywine > Being the only Malkavian with PRO, I agree that she is an exception to the rule. > Servius Marius Pustula > Unmada > This is besides the point but any kind of hand management tech on a crypt card is really, really powerful.

Ankha

> KevinM wrote: > And I agree with your assessment. It's perfect. > > Oh, wait, who am I replying to? > > This is why to use the 'QUOTE' function when posting. > Original post, no need to quote. The message is explicit. oh wait, yours isn't. Who were you answering to? Prince of Paris, France Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director

Lech

> Pendargon wrote: > I politely disagree with you, and i think, so do these 10-caps which i have seen regularly played for their disciplines and titles alone, and their text as a cornercase thing : > > Angelica, The Canonicus > Ayelea, The Manipulator > Lucian > Nefertiti > Ulugh Beg, The Watcher > Lucinde Alastor > Madame Guil > Marcus Vitel, > Rachel Brandywine > Luca Italicus, > Melinda Galbraith > Servius Marius Pustula > Unmada > Alonso Petrodon > > And i guess, a few others... > Well Angelica, The Canonicus - 3 votes Ayelea, The Manipulator - 3 votes Lucian 3 votes Nefertiti +1 bleed, yeah - DOM Ulugh Beg, The Watcher - 3 votes Lucinde Alastor - 3 votes, obf Madame Guil - 3 votes, for Marcus Vitel, - 2 votes, OBF Rachel Brandywine - 2 votes, great special, PRO Luca Italicus, - the fuck ? who play this crap ? Melinda Galbraith - same as above Servius Marius Pustula - say what ? Unmada - 3 votes Alonso Petrodon - 3 votes, DOM Most of those is played for votes and special, few for disciplines. Sabbat.Black Hand Shakar: Lech loathe ranged weapons. Once each action, he may burn 1 blood to become Camarilla Prince of Krakow until the end of the action.

Juggernaut1981

Anyway, from a quick draft, I'd use this with Karl & the Madmen Deck Name : The Madman's Experiment Author : Juggernaut1981 Description : Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 10 average: 5.87 5x Karl, Lord of the Madness 7x Kindred Madmen Library [90 cards] Action [24] 4x Call, The 4x Haunting, The 6x Horseshoes 8x Kindred Spirits 2x Rampage Action Modifier [6] 6x Mind Tricks Action Modifier/Combat [4] 4x Deny Combat [20] 2x Fractured Armament 8x Immortal Grapple 4x Street Cred 6x Taste of Vitae Equipment [2] 1x Bowl of Convergence 1x Palatial Estate Master [16] 2x Dementation 1x Giant's Blood 1x Hungry Coyote, The 2x Pentex(TM) Subversion 2x Rack, The 2x Secure Haven 4x Vessel 2x Wash Reaction [18] 6x Babble 6x Eyes of Argus 6x Spirit's Touch Retired Baron of Sydney, Australia, 418

Inyor

Version 3.0 Karl, Lord of the Madness Sabbat: During you untap phase you may move up to 2 blood from Karl to any Malkavian antitribu in your uncontrolled región. Karl may burn 2 blood to give all Kindred Madmen +1 bleed until your discard phase. Kindred Madmen gain +1 bleed while Karl is ready. Version 3.5 Karl, Lord of the Madness Sabbat: During you untap phase you may move up to 2 blood from Karl to any Malkavian antitribu in your uncontrolled región. Karl may burn 1 blood during your master phase to choose any Methuselah, if Karl is untapped during his/her minion phase, Karl can take actions in this minion phase (follow normal sequencing rules). Kindred Madmen gain +1 bleed while Karl is ready. Camarilla Prince of Jaen

Klaital

> Inyor wrote: > Version 3.0 > > Karl, Lord of the Madness > > Sabbat: During you untap phase you may move up to 2 blood from Karl to any Malkavian antitribu in your uncontrolled región. Karl may burn 2 blood to give all Kindred Madmen +1 bleed until your discard phase. Kindred Madmen gain +1 bleed while Karl is ready. > > Version 3.5 > > Karl, Lord of the Madness > > Sabbat: During you untap phase you may move up to 2 blood from Karl to any Malkavian antitribu in your uncontrolled región. Karl may burn 1 blood during your master phase to choose any Methuselah, if Karl is untapped during his/her minion phase, Karl can take actions in this minion phase (follow normal sequencing rules). Kindred Madmen gain +1 bleed while Karl is ready. > I would change his special from move 2 blood to any !malk to move 2 blood to any vampire with dementation, which would be quite flavorful with his name.

Pendargon

> Juggernaut1981 wrote: > Anyway, from a quick draft, I'd use this with Karl & the Madmen > > Deck Name : The Madman's Experiment > Author : Juggernaut1981 > Description : > > Crypt [12 vampires] Capacity min: 3 max: 10 average: 5.87 5x Karl, Lord of the Madness > 7x Kindred Madmen > > Library [90 cards] > Action [24] > 4x Call, The > 4x Haunting, The > 6x Horseshoes > 8x Kindred Spirits > 2x Rampage > > Action Modifier [6] > 6x Mind Tricks > > Action Modifier/Combat [4] > 4x Deny > > Combat [20] > 2x Fractured Armament > 8x Immortal Grapple > 4x Street Cred > 6x Taste of Vitae > > Equipment [2] > 1x Bowl of Convergence > 1x Palatial Estate > > Master [16] > 2x Dementation > 1x Giant's Blood > 1x Hungry Coyote, The > 2x Pentex(TM) Subversion > 2x Rack, The > 2x Secure Haven > 4x Vessel > 2x Wash > > Reaction [18] > 6x Babble > 6x Eyes of Argus > 6x Spirit's Touch > Not bad. IMHO Lacks Lilit's blessing, A couple of wider view to get rid of the extra copies of Karl, and couple of Telepathic misdirections. Also, 1-2 disarms i never a bad thing...

Inyor

No version, options, option A and B for Karl Xd Camarilla Prince of Jaen