Camarilla: If Tegyrius is ready, any Assamite may take a +1 stealth action to gain an allegiance counter. Any Assamite with an allegiance counter is considered a Camarilla vampire. +1 strength. Blood cursed.
Does an assamite with an allegiance counter that goes anarch change sect?
If so, if he gets a second allegiance counter does he change sect again?
> Oshi wrote:
> Does an assamite with an allegiance counter that goes anarch change sect?
>
Yes, by nature of going anarch. A vampire many have only one sect. The most recent sect change will take precedence.
> Oshi wrote:
> If so, if he gets a second allegiance counter does he change sect again?
>
Tegyrius's card text doesn't say it (he was made before changing sect was easy, ie going Anarch), but I'd burn the Allegiance counter to prevent the conflict with game state. Therefore, the Allegiance Counter -> Anarch -> Allegiance Counter vampire should end up with only one Allegiance Counter in the end.
I couldn't find anything on the old google groups page about this. Interested to hear Ankha's take.
This can be understood in two ways: either this was an old mechanic and the "allegiance counter" is a way to say "this assamita becomes Camarrilla", in which case the counter should be understood as would a regular anarch counter, burning if you change sect; or this was a different mechanic and by specifying an "allegiance counter" without a burning clause they intended for a permanent change, as "this assamita is now bound to this pact and cannot get out of the camarilla", which could be an interesting mechanic, but which is only induce by omision of a burning clause (which is specified on other anarch cards, but not all of them).
By card text: The Allegiance counter don’t burn when you change sects.
And while the Allegiance counter are on any Assamite they are considered Camarilla.
So you turn to anarch and goes back to Camarilla right after
Archbishop of Itaocara
Prince ID #510
There is a distinction between a vampire who changes sect, and a vampire who "is considered" a given sect.
Allegiance counters, like Writ of Acceptance, is some kind of continuous effect. A vampire with an allegiance counter who changes his sect to X remains Camarilla. As soon as he looses his allegiance counter, that vampire's sect resumes to X.
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Whisker wrote:
> I asume same happens if Tegyrius somehow gets removed from play?
>
Sure. Counters with a function keep their function.
> LSJ wrote:
> > I have a related question, though. Will the allegiance counters lose its
> > effect if Tegyrius leaves play? Only he has the text that makes Assamites
> > with Allegiance counters Camarilla, if he leaves play those counters would
> > be meaningless, right?
>
> No. See also disease counters from Vampiric Disease (which is never in play).
>
groups.google.com/d/msg/rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad/591WMJX0KTE/eXKGyijbKcgJ
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
> Ankha wrote:
> There is a distinction between a vampire who changes sect, and a vampire who "is considered" a given sect.
>
Perhaps we should treat "is considered" like Mata Hari or Vlad's ability instead. A simple ruling update could make that happen (with 30-day window, etc.).
> kschaefer wrote:
>
> > Ankha wrote:
> > There is a distinction between a vampire who changes sect, and a vampire who "is considered" a given sect.
> >
> Perhaps we should treat "is considered" like Mata Hari or Vlad's ability instead.
>
What are you suggesting? That the vampire could play cards that require Camarilla "as if", while retaining their sect?
Prince of Paris, France
Ratings Coordinator, Rules Director
Another option is to make Tegyrius and Writ of Acceptance consistent with the anarch cards and add a "burn the counter / equipment if this vampire changes sects" clause.
It will make Tegyrius' text rather long, though.
--
National Coordinator
South Africa
> Ankha wrote:
>
> > kschaefer wrote:
> >
> > > Ankha wrote:
> > > There is a distinction between a vampire who changes sect, and a vampire who "is considered" a given sect.
> > >
> > Perhaps we should treat "is considered" like Mata Hari or Vlad's ability instead.
> >
> What are you suggesting? That the vampire could play cards that require Camarilla "as if", while retaining their sect?
>
I haven't fully thought out all of the implications, but in short, yes.
"is considered" is close to "as if" (a fair reading without foreknowledge could have both be ruled functionally similar) and could simplify the game by reducing the extra overhead and consolidating these older cards using the new consistent terms/rulings.
These older cards (Writ and Tegyrius) simply don't follow the more modern patterns that the game uses. A rewording of Tegyrius's special to make the counter similar to an Anarch counter (burn if changing sect) also brings the older card in-line with newer design principles, but at the expense of updating the text (still an option). Simply changing the ruling on how to interpret "is considered" requires no text updates and streamlines the game to have one less pattern to consider.